Here we go again. Conference expansion

05GTCorndog said:
More history? Sure. If you go back 50 years. "But Navy went 7-5 against a öööö schedule and played in the "öööö on my face Bowl" 5 of the past 7 year!!!". Who cares?

But larger fanbase? Not a chance. A lot of people assume that anyone who served in the Navy is a Navy football fan. The fact is the only people in the Navy who care about Navy football are the 1,000 new Ensigns who graduate from there each year (and half of them aren't even football fans and/or resent the football team for their bullshit admission standards). Officers from ROTC don't give a öööö about Navy football. The enlisted don't give a öööö about Navy football. "I know I grew up in rural Texas as a lifelong TAMU fan, but now that the Navy is paying me $30k a year to chip paint and swab the deck on this ship I've change my allegiances to Navy! #Midshipmen4Lyfe" Nah.

The Army-Navy game which is the only game on that weekend usually draws between 3 and 4 million viewers each year to watch high school football out of nothing other than patriotism. The same number of people watched GT play ND.

Kansas has sucked for a decade, but if they ever fielded a competitive team again they would sell out like they did in 2008. They have 20,000 undergrads and are the marquee college in the state. They have a rabid basketball fanbase that would gladly hop on the bandwagon if the team didn't completely suck.

All of these suck and I don't want any of them. Army and Navy shouldn't even be mentioned at all in these discussions except as a joke.
Click to expand...
Quoted for the öööö on my face bowl.
 
aeromech said:
Hard to argue with that; but I would have to see the numbers on WVU. I don't see a good option for the ACC outside of some sort of merger with the B1G though. Picking up TCU sounds like conceding the ACC is the little brother conference. I don't see TCU ever competing evenly with UT or A&M in Texas.
Click to expand...
WV has one thing going for it. They have a mutual hate fest with Pitt and Syracuse (and Penn State). Like all of those teams hate each other in a way that draws viewers from all over just to see what may happen.
 
savbandjacket said:
WV has one thing going for it. They have a mutual hate fest with Pitt and Syracuse (and Penn State). Like all of those teams hate each other in a way that draws viewers from all over just to see what may happen.
Click to expand...

I don't know why those teams hate WVU; but I automatically assume it is WVU's fault. For that region of the country they are kind of like UGA in that the other schools around them likely have good reason to hate them.
 
savbandjacket said:
WV has one thing going for it. They have a mutual hate fest with Pitt and Syracuse (and Penn State). Like all of those teams hate each other in a way that draws viewers from all over just to see what may happen.
Click to expand...

Yeah, if it was solely about building interest in Regional rivalries it's hard to imagine anything besting WVU. Couches burning in Charlottesville to the absolute horror of the wine and cheese crowd. Carnal sibling relations in Blacksburg. Battle for the Golden Meth Pipe in the Backyard Brawl with Pitt.

Edit - almost forgot the Hatfield and McCoy connection that would have to be made for WVU and Louisville.

I'm all in favor of WVU being Notre Dame's +1, but not by themselves.
 
Last edited:
GT flunkout said:
Yeah, if it was solely about building interest in Regional rivalries it's hard to imagine anything besting WVU. Couches burning in Charlottesville to the absolute horror of the wine and cheese crowd. Carnal sibling relations in Blacksburg. Battle for the Golden Meth Pipe in the Backyard Brawl with Pitt.

I'm all in favor of WVU being Notre Dame's +1, but not by themselves.
Click to expand...
This actually sounds kind of cool. I’d be ok with ND and WV as additions. Penn State would be a bonus.
 
aeromech said:
I don't know why those teams hate WVU; but I automatically assume it is WVU's fault. For that region of the country they are kind of like UGA in that the other schools around them likely have good reason to hate them.
Click to expand...
It’s not just that they hate WV, they all hate each other. Bring in WV and ND and turn the acc into north/south divisions. Try to get penn state and kick wake out.
 
GT flunkout said:
That was all about a misguided attempt to expand the footprint. To get into mass population centers like DC and NYC. Kansas is wheat fields. Kansas City is a garbage market on its own. There is no comparison. In hindsight taking Nebraska was *almost* as foolhardy as Rutgers/Maryland.

The ACC did the same thing with Pitt and Syracuse. Completely misguided but the logic of footprint expansion was sound at the time. There are no Texases or Oklahomas left except Notre Dame. That's the only thing that will bring schools like Kansas and West Virginia into the conversation.
Click to expand...

So a quick note on this. The argument for expanding the conference with teams from big cities was more than just “they carry that big city”, which everyone knows isn’t wholly accurate for any college team. Why it did make sense was because of the launch of conference networks. If I recall correctly, a conference would make like 5-8 cents per subscriber in states in which they had no conference representation and like 15-20 cents per subscriber in states where they do. So all of a sudden all the B10 fans/subscribers in these large metro hubs are making a significant difference on conference payouts. This was true too for the ACC I imagine.

We’re now entering a period where cable subscriptions are being cut by younger subscriptions, time will tell if that trend continues. Clearly live sports is an important angle in keeping those subscriptions active, I’m not sure how it works with regards to these streaming service hubs.

This next round of expansion consequently wont necessarily be purely based on markets, tho that certainly doesn’t hurt. I’ve heard others say it’s based on bringing more compelling content, ie great brands or matchups that might increase ratings, like rivalry games. Don’t know if that’s true, but honestly that’s the way expansion should have always been and the type of expansion I can live with.
 
Last edited:
GT flunkout said:
Yeah, if it was solely about building interest in Regional rivalries it's hard to imagine anything besting WVU. Couches burning in Charlottesville to the absolute horror of the wine and cheese crowd. Carnal sibling relations in Blacksburg. Battle for the Golden Meth Pipe in the Backyard Brawl with Pitt.

Edit - almost forgot the Hatfield and McCoy connection that would have to be made for WVU and Louisville.

I'm all in favor of WVU being Notre Dame's +1, but not by themselves.
Click to expand...

Imagine if you can, the wine and cheese crowd watching a WVU visitor dropping a deuce in someone's seat at half time. :bowrofl:
 
GT flunkout said:
Another bad idea. Smallest stadium in the Big 12 with the lowest average attendance (43k).... if Kansas is not included (lol). TCU is even worse than GT in DFW... Despite recent success they would be a drain on the conference. Add to that their fan base would shrink even more without any local Texas games to keep them interested.

I'm not saying the ACC isn't dumb enough to do something like this, but this is just one more example of expansion for the sake of expansion.
Click to expand...
43k is larger than the max capacities for Duke and Wake Forest.

I am not advocating to add TCU but if we choose to expand they are the best option available.
 
I was listening to the Athletic's Big 12 podcast today and they said that there is apparently some agreement between TCU, Baylor, and TTU to stay together. Agreements don't seem to mean much today, so take it as you will, but I also get the sense TCU wouldn't work out so well.

If we could add ND, WVU, PSU, and some other school, we could end up with North and South 9 team divisions, each with 8 game round robin with clear division winners and a championship game with the division winners. Non divisional games would be OCC games.
 
savbandjacket said:
Negative. Our best option is ND and WV. Far more viewers of games with those teams and ACC opponents than TCU v any ACC team.
Click to expand...
I agree on Notre Dame if they will join. I do not understand the allure of WV. Given the current TV agreements any team in Texas is much more lucrative than WV. We have a lot more alumni in Texas and it is much easier to get to DFW.
 
AmpuTECHture said:
I was listening to the Athletic's Big 12 podcast today and they said that there is apparently some agreement between TCU, Baylor, and TTU to stay together. Agreements don't seem to mean much today, so take it as you will, but I also get the sense TCU wouldn't work out so well.

If we could add ND, WVU, PSU, and some other school, we could end up with North and South 9 team divisions, each with 8 game round robin with clear division winners and a championship game with the division winners. Non divisional games would be OCC games.
Click to expand...

PSU is going nowhere. At this point they've been in the Big Ten 30 years. That's their natural fit.

Texas and Oklahoma didn't sacrifice fit or tradition. More like getting the band back together with Missouri, Arkansas, and Texas A&M.
 
BrentwoodJacket said:
I agree on Notre Dame if they will join. I do not understand the allure of WV. Given the current TV agreements any team in Texas is much more lucrative than WV. We have a lot more alumni in Texas and it is much easier to get to DFW.
Click to expand...
Because WV fortifies the northern part of the conference and allows a north/south split with extreme regional interest games. Imagine this:

South:
GT
FSU
Clemson
Miami
UNC
NCST
Duke
Wake (

North:
ND
VT
UVa
WV
Pitt
Syracuse
BC

The only school that doesn’t like this is Uva which basically ends up in a version of the old Big East, but who GAF about Virginia. Everyone else gets to play schools they care about playing. The south is great except for Duke and Wake.
 
savbandjacket said:
Because WV fortifies the northern part of the conference and allows a north/south split with extreme regional interest games. Imagine this:

South:
GT
FSU
Clemson
Miami
UNC
NCST
Duke
Wake (

North:
ND
VT
UVa
WV
Pitt
Syracuse
BC

The only school that doesn’t like this is Uva which basically ends up in a version of the old Big East, but who GAF about Virginia. Everyone else gets to play schools they care about playing. The south is great except for Duke and Wake.
Click to expand...
You are still one team short in the North. ND should be thrilled since they will be in the conference championship game every year.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top