I Am Utterly Convinced

Basically Techbert has come to the wrong board to make his speel. Techbert, the two categories I spoke about regarding posters being either a.) down to earth, or b.) crazy, you would fall under category b.

Your analogy was a thing of beauty by the way.
 
I wonder, if over time, message boards all end up focused on the same opinion about the program. Will the Hive end up completely "rosy"? Will there be more than three or four sites and over time, people will find their own particular segment?

Give them hell Techbert. I'm with you. I'm frustrated, but when I analyze the situation, I still think Chan could carry us all the way. More importantly, the odds of getting and keeping a big time winner are almost nil.
 
So you've accepted mediocrity Techbert?

Good for you.

No, I am in favor of improving the situation. Thus I don't want to tear down an improving situation. That would be striving for mediocrity, such as you do.

Go root for Syracuse. They did things the way you wanted.
 
I know I've single handedly lost at least 5 games for this team in the past couple of years...
 
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I wonder, if over time, message boards all end up focused on the same opinion about the program. Will the Hive end up completely "rosy"? Will there be more than three or four sites and over time, people will find their own particular segment?

Give them hell Techbert. I'm with you. I'm frustrated, but when I analyze the situation, I still think Chan could carry us all the way. More importantly, the odds of getting and keeping a big time winner are almost nil.
I'd rather get a big time winner and lose him to the NFL or another team than be stuck in mediocrity.
 
So basically, in your world, fans can't do anything but cheer?

Technically, I believe that's pretty much the definition of a fan.

Techbert has come to the wrong board to make his speel.

Oh I don't think so. Although the median stingtalker is much more critical of the regime than the median hiver, it's still certainly the best place to make a case such as his because the bulk of the board is open to hearing both sides of an issue.

For instance, I don't think there's too many playcalls I'd disagree with on an individual basis this year, but JTS does post some pretty interesting trends and tendencies. It certainly appears our staff may be losing Rock-Paper-Scissor in 2nd and medium.
 
No, I am in favor of improving the situation. Thus I don't want to tear down an improving situation. That would be striving for mediocrity, such as you do.

Go root for Syracuse. They did things the way you wanted.

But that's the thing techbert. You think it's an improving situation, others don't see it. You really can't prove your point, neither can they. It's all opinion. What you're saying is that you can pontificate on your opinion but they can't.

And as far as Syracuse goes, that program was headed down in a tight spiral and was going to crash. They may still suck, but they sucked before they made the change too.
 
Syracuse was mediocre. Now they have completely crashed. Nebraska was winning 9 games a season, now they have completely crashed.

To me, it's very easy to see an improving situation. BC just kicked our butts and would have done the same to just about any team in the country that day. Great QB's, when they are on, can beat anybody.

Look at how mediocre or poor our recruiting class was four years ago and look at how many NFL prospects we have this year. If you can't see improvement then you just aren't looking.

Add in the whole probation thing which oh so many people just refuse to factor in and again you see well above average versus the norm (team on probation).

Look at our loss to Maryland and Virginia. Everyone's bitching about how poor they are, but they are sporting good records and have waged wars with everyone (except Wyoming). Both losses could be attributed to fluke plays, certainly the UVA loss was. The record shows a fiar 5-3 but the losses aint' woodshed types.

Look at attendance and ticket sales. Look at the representation of the I and tell me Chan isn't doing a hell of a job on getting Tech men. Look at the recruiting he's got going on. Look at the good recruiting base he's developed.

I give you that Chan is boring. I give you that Chan has a defensive grind it out style but that is just his style. It can work, but it doesn't excite people. I give you that he hasn't beaten UGA, but with flunkgate/probation who would have?

You can claim your argument but to say things aren't still improving is to put your head into the sand.
 
But that's the thing techbert. You think it's an improving situation, others don't see it. You really can't prove your point, neither can they. It's all opinion. What you're saying is that you can pontificate on your opinion but they can't.

And as far as Syracuse goes, that program was headed down in a tight spiral and was going to crash. They may still suck, but they sucked before they made the change too.

A few data points:

-We went to the league championship game last year.
-We have not had a losing season under the current coach, despite some draconian misfortune early (6th string running back, etc.) and probationary effects not of his doing.

-So recruiting, is that up or down or sideways?

-Is special teams up or down or sideways? (Chicken littles wanted to can coach Kelly last year, as they saw no improvement on special teams play his first season.)

-Offensive coordinator - up, down, or sideways? (Remember the last bullet point before you answer.)

It seems to me that people who do not see improvement simply do not want to see improvement.

Yeah, you can pontificate on your opinion, but you better be ready to defend it if it is both stupid and potentially harmful.

We know recruits read message boards. They read them most when they are trying to decide where to go to school. We know parents read message boards. They want their children to go to a positive situation.

You can admit you don't care if what you post might hurt the thing you claim to root for, but have the decency not to claim it absolutely has zero effect on the program. We know of at least one recruit that went elsewhere due to bad fans loud on message boards, and can point to some others where it might have been a contributing factor.

Syracuse sucked? They canned a coach that won 9 or more games in a season for them six times, who had ONE losing season in 14 years, and who had just gone to a bowl. They did not accept mediocrity. Syracuse could be so much more.

They have gone 7-24 since.

That's what listening to fans like SyracuseKyle leads to.
 
Hey Goldmember, the facts remain that since Dodd, the winning coaches leave, the losing coaches get fired. Chan is the only winning coach that wants to stay long term. Go out and get your Bill Lewis or Bill Curry initially. There is something to be said for winning 60% of the time, considering what we've gone through.
 
But that's the thing techbert. You think it's an improving situation, others don't see it. You really can't prove your point, neither can they. It's all opinion. What you're saying is that you can pontificate on your opinion but they can't.

And as far as Syracuse goes, that program was headed down in a tight spiral and was going to crash. They may still suck, but they sucked before they made the change too.
-I think most would agree that recruiting is impoving
-There is statistical evidence that special teams have improved
-Defense is no worse than in the past
-offense has improved statistically - PPG and YPG are better than any year under Gailey. Granted, much of that is against weaker opposition but this isn't the only season in which we've played games against weaker opposition. We're 2-1 in the games in which we've scored fewer than 20 pts

All of those are signs of improvement, not opinion (well, aside from recruiting). Unfortunately, those improvements haven't showed up in the form of more Ws (which is disappointing to me but I still recognize the signs).
 
Syracuse was mediocre. Now they have completely crashed. Nebraska was winning 9 games a season, now they have completely crashed.

To me, it's very easy to see an improving situation. BC just kicked our butts and would have done the same to just about any team in the country that day. Great QB's, when they are on, can beat anybody.

Look at how mediocre or poor our recruiting class was four years ago and look at how many NFL prospects we have this year. If you can't see improvement then you just aren't looking.

Add in the whole probation thing which oh so many people just refuse to factor in and again you see well above average versus the norm (team on probation).

Look at our loss to Maryland and Virginia. Everyone's bitching about how poor they are, but they are sporting good records and have waged wars with everyone (except Wyoming). Both losses could be attributed to fluke plays, certainly the UVA loss was. The record shows a fiar 5-3 but the losses aint' woodshed types.

Look at attendance and ticket sales. Look at the representation of the I and tell me Chan isn't doing a hell of a job on getting Tech men. Look at the recruiting he's got going on. Look at the good recruiting base he's developed.

I give you that Chan is boring. I give you that Chan has a defensive grind it out style but that is just his style. It can work, but it doesn't excite people. I give you that he hasn't beaten UGA, but with flunkgate/probation who would have?

You can claim your argument but to say things aren't still improving is to put your head into the sand.
So basically you've just pointed out how we've improved recruiting and yet we're still likely to limp to another 7-5 season...

How is that improvement?

And for those of you making statements like "oh well, we are a fumbled punt and a FG away from 7-1", you need to shut up. If you're just going to say every close game we lost should have been a win why can't you say the opposite? We are a fumbled KO return, blocked punt, and dropped pass from being 3-5.
 
If you have those concerns you should not post them on a public message board where they may directly or indirectly cause untold harm to the program. You should contact Drad or Gailey himself with your concerns.

If you have nothing positive to say on a public message board then you should say nothing at all - or stick to less damaging topics such as uniform color or whining about coverage by the local media.

QFT
 
The thing is guys, I agree with much of what you say. But what hasn't improved is the won-loss record and the record against ugag. No matter what else we might want to point to, if those things don't improve we are in danger of losing the support for the program that makes it possible to compete in the first place.

But to point to just one example. I do think recruiting is improving. But it took 4 years for this staff to figure out what they were doing. So does taking us back, and then bringing us forward constitute improvement? There's a saying in my business that you don't get kudos for fixing something you broke. To me, Chan is like that. For all the good things he does, he shoots himself in the foot with something else.

I'm not saying Chan should be fired. I'm saying I think DRad will think long and hard about the future of the program when this year ends. If we're 7-5 with another loss to ugag I think Chan is gone. If we're 9-3 he'll still be here. In between likely depends on who we beat. Either way I'll continue to pull for Tech as I've always done.

And on the recruiting thing. There is virtually no program in the country that doesn't have internet craziness that recruits might pick up on. I've seen very little on the Tech boards (with the exception of the nuts on buzzoff) that I think would bother recruits. They know what the story is. In fact, the one recruit who seems to be having issues with Tech right now is over graduation rates, not internet rumors.
 
No, I am in favor of improving the situation. Thus I don't want to tear down an improving situation. That would be striving for mediocrity, such as you do.

Go root for Syracuse. They did things the way you wanted.

Well see, here is where the rubber meets the road. YOUR OPINION is that the situation is improving. That is your opinion it isn't set in stone. Its neither right nor wrong. You don't know the situation is improving. In fact for every positive you give, there are a slew of negatives to combat that.

Many OTHER PEOPLE's OPINIONS are that the situation is NOT IMPROVING. And because you keep supporting the current situation YOU are having a negative effect on our program.

So what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Maybe now you'll come down to earth and realize that there are fair and down to earth people on both sides of the arguement. There are also crazy people on both sides of the arguement. You seem like the later of the two. See my comments about being a crazy poster.

Right now you are as bad as some of the dolts you are criticizing.
 
So basically you've just pointed out how we've improved recruiting and yet we're still likely to limp to another 7-5 season...

How is that improvement?

So basically what you are saying is that you cannot see deeper than a won-loss record, and that if a recruit does not win the Heisman as a true freshman he will always be mediocre...

But you would have canned both Bobby Bowden and Frank Beamer after their terribly disappointing 6th seasons. No improvement there. Get rid of them. Don't settle for mediocrity like with Bobby Bowden and Frank Beamer.
 
I know I've single handedly lost at least 5 games for this team in the past couple of years...

I am getting tired of knox being so negative about himself. He reads these message boards you know. I don't think we could get any better posters from knoxville. There are only so many computers in east TN. I am such a mediocre stingtalker.:grin:
 
But to point to just one example. I do think recruiting is improving. But it took 4 years for this staff to figure out what they were doing. So does taking us back, and then bringing us forward constitute improvement? There's a saying in my business that you don't get kudos for fixing something you broke. To me, Chan is like that. For all the good things he does, he shoots himself in the foot with something else.
First, I don't necessarily disagree with everything you are saying (and I also don't agree with everything Techbert is saying) but I think you're a little off-base here. I know there is one thing the staff probably took a little too long to act on but recruiting isn't something that many coaches will just step in and have instant success. The Dave Wilson issue aside, perhaps the staff needed the time to work and build relationships in a state where most high school administrators, coaches, teachers are graduates of the university that we're in direct competition with. Unless you meant keeping Wilson on the staff, I don't see how Gailey "broke" anything in regards to recruiting.
 
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