Observations and Game Discussion

[vapspwi]

I was at the game - not many of us there, and the weather was miserable to start, but it was a good time. Getting to the stadium with even that meager crowd was chaos - I can’t imagine what it’s like for a sold out NFL game.

Sims was frustrating. He was getting killed early (like 4 sacks?), so some happy feet are understandable, but there were a few times he ran too soon. And there were a few times he ran too late when there were yards to be had. Some near-picks that could have changed the game. But he ran hard and fought for yards at times, too. Just a very mixed bag from him.

The D was very impressive in the first without Charlie. We lost our mojo a little after a questionable roughing late in the first half, and then in kind of a prevent at the end, but they generally held up their end, especially with some huge turnovers. Some solid hits, pressure on the QB, and nice open field tackles, too.

Officiating seemed kind of haphazard. The roughing looked iffy. Missed the Hall TD late. Basically didn’t call pass interference. But it mostly worked in our favor, I guess. It was good to see a couple of our coaches getting after them after that weird substitution thing.

Not sure what Hall was thinking pulling up on that long run late - was he thinking it was one of those “we can ice it if we don’t score” situations? It was weird. But he looked pretty good, especially late. Dunno why Dontae didn’t get more touches. But Key seemed to be going with a slower rotation of RBs than we’re used to seeing.

The number of penalties Pitt racked up on punts was impressive - 2 per punt for a while there. They couldn’t block cleanly to save their lives. Good on the punt team for getting everything off. Shanahan seemed to be doing one step and kick pretty reliably. And we went with a more traditional formation with three blockers in the backfield, finally.

The O looked rough at times, with an amazing number of long downs (including 2 3rd and 23s on successive drives. We’ve got to get more consistent on offense. It would have helped if we hadn’t flubbed the couple of tricky/razzle dazzle plays we ran.

The only decision making complaints I have from the coaches were at the end of the game. Some iffy decisions (not kicking the FG to go up 15) and generally almost let things get away from us, turning a solid butt kicking into a squeaker.

But hey, it’s nice to get a big win and not embarrass ourselves. We’re gonna end up wishing we had that UCF game back, I bet.

JRjr

 

[JoeCakeEater]

Great insights.

A lot of people bashing the 4th down decision. I don’t. I support going for it on 4th down at the one unless you’re tied or down by 3 or less. Then there are other cases where you can push the score form 1 score to 2 score game, etc. The play call was absolute trash, but the decision to go made sense to me. Worst case you leave them on the 1.

At this point we have clarity on what happened… we didn’t convert and they marched down the field on a 99.5 yard drive. The coach didn’t know all that in the moment.

 

[gtfan088]

Great insights.

A lot of people bashing the 4th down decision. I don’t. I support going for it on 4th down at the one unless you’re tied or down by 3 or less. Then there are other cases where you can push the score form 1 score to 2 score game, etc. The play call was absolute trash, but the decision to go made sense to me. Worst case you leave them on the 1.

At this point we have clarity on what happened… we didn’t convert and they marched down the field on a 99.5 yard drive. The coach didn’t know all that in the moment.

I feel like it was one of those situations where you're justified in going for it or kicking it. I have no problem with trying to put the game entirely out of reach there, knowing where you're at on the field. Just need a higher percentage play call in that situation.

 

[savbandjacket]

Great insights.

A lot of people bashing the 4th down decision. I don’t. I support going for it on 4th down at the one unless you’re tied or down by 3 or less. Then there are other cases where you can push the score form 1 score to 2 score game, etc. The play call was absolute trash, but the decision to go made sense to me. Worst case you leave them on the 1.

At this point we have clarity on what happened… we didn’t convert and they marched down the field on a 99.5 yard drive. The coach didn’t know all that in the moment.

The play call wasn’t bad. The throw was. There are two bad outcomes on that play: 1) you run and get stopped short of the LOS and give up the best alternative to scoring of having them pinned at the 1 foot mark, or 2) you thrown an intersection touchback and lose it all. So you throw a fade that only our guy has a chance at getting. That’s not a bad play call.

 

[ramblinwise1]

First reaction is that our team does have enough talent to compete when they want too and they finally wanted too. Collins just didn't have it. What a shame and waste of 3+ years. Defensive strategy tried to give it away at the end. We were just running around at random with no pressure watching the receivers catch balls. That has to be fixed this week. Our lines are a weak link but they played better I think.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

I feel like it was one of those situations where you're justified in going for it or kicking it. I have no problem with trying to put the game entirely out of reach there, knowing where you're at on the field. Just need a higher percentage play call in that situation.

I agree with the your last statement for sure, but really, we have a 6'7" receiver on a 6' guy. If Sims throws it like a jump ball instead of a Reggie pass out of bounds that no one can reach, I think it is a 70-30 he either comes down with the ball or gets the interference penalty. The PI would give us 4 more downs.

Sims still makes some easy passes look hard. I remember one where he rolled left and through behind a wide open receiver only about 8 yards downfield. I am 59 and could have made that pass. I just wish he was more consistent making the "easy" passes. But, it is easy for me to say, since I'm not getting hit constantly because of our swiss cheese O line.

 

[gtfan088]

I agree with the your last statement for sure, but really, we have a 6'7" receiver on a 6' guy. If Sims throws it like a jump ball instead of a Reggie pass out of bounds that no one can reach, I think it is a 70-30 he either comes down with the ball or gets the interference penalty. The PI would give us 4 more downs.

Sims still makes some easy passes look hard. I remember one where he rolled left and through behind a wide open receiver only about 8 yards downfield. I am 59 and could have made that pass. I just wish he was more consistent making the "easy" passes. But, it is easy for me to say, since I'm not getting hit constantly because of our swiss cheese O line.

Gotta know your personnel. I'd argue it was not a high percentage play with an erratic QB. To me, you either try to overpower them for a yard or allow Sims to use his legs.

 

[savbandjacket]

Gotta know your personnel. I'd argue it was not a high percentage play with an erratic QB. To me, you either try to overpower them for a yard or allow Sims to use his legs.

See my post above. We picked a play that has a lowest risk of turnover on interception (disaster) or losing yardage (which negates the entire reason for the decision).

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

Gotta know your personnel. I'd argue it was not a high percentage play with an erratic QB. To me, you either try to overpower them for a yard or allow Sims to use his legs.

No, I agree that I would rather run the ball right there unless you have evidence that Sims can successfully do that play, and I had seen nothing to prove that. I'm just saying that "IF" he could, the play would have had a high degree of success rate. But, "if" is not a way to choose a play. When the play occurred, I immediately said that it was a terrible playcall.

 

[gtfan088]

See my post above. We picked a play that has a lowest risk of turnover on interception (disaster) or losing yardage (which negates the entire reason for the decision).

Agree to disagree. I would've liked to see a play with a better chance of resulting in a TD (given personnel). To me, if you're going to go for the TD, go for it with your best play. If you're going to play it safe, kick the chip shot FG.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

The play call wasn’t bad. The throw was. There are two bad outcomes on that play: 1) you run and get stopped short of the LOS and give up the best alternative to scoring of having them pinned at the 1 foot mark, or 2) you thrown an intersection touchback and lose it all. So you throw a fade that only our guy has a chance at getting. That’s not a bad play call.

Well, I agree the throw was bad for sure, but it seems that Sims has trouble with "touch" passes a LOT, so not sure it is a good playcall if he continues to show this inconsistency. It reminded me of Reggie throwing to CJ so many times, where CJ had no chance due to the ball being uncatchable.

 

[vapspwi]

At this point we have clarity on what happened… we didn’t convert and they marched down the field on a 99.5 yard drive. The coach didn’t know all that in the moment.

Given the circumstances, I was calling for the kick at the time given that we were kicking well and that we haven’t demonstrated the ability to gain one yard at will. True that leaving them pinned at the inch-line was theoretically a decent outcome - letting them drive 99.5 yards was a bigger failure than not scoring.

I like the “step on their throat” approach in theory, but this team hasn’t proven they can do it yet.

JRjr

 

[gt2690b]

Given the circumstances, I was calling for the kick at the time given that we were kicking well and that we haven’t demonstrated the ability to gain one yard at will. True that leaving them pinned at the inch-line was theoretically a decent outcome - letting them drive 99.5 yards was a bigger failure than not scoring.

I like the “step on their throat” approach in theory, but this team hasn’t proven they can do it yet.

JRjr

It wasn't even the 1 foot line until 2 false starts

 

[savbandjacket]

It was a chess move play based on outcomes. Potential outcomes of that play ranked best to worst:
1. Touchdown
2. Pass interference
3. Incomplete pass OOB
4. Sack/tb stopped behind line/loss of yardage and turnover on downs
5a. Fumble
5b. Interception and touchback
6. Pick 6

The play chosen was the best play to heavily weight outcomes 1-3 over the others.

 

[WracerX]

Great insights.

A lot of people bashing the 4th down decision. I don’t. I support going for it on 4th down at the one unless you’re tied or down by 3 or less. Then there are other cases where you can push the score form 1 score to 2 score game, etc. The play call was absolute trash, but the decision to go made sense to me. Worst case you leave them on the 1.

At this point we have clarity on what happened… we didn’t convert and they marched down the field on a 99.5 yard drive. The coach didn’t know all that in the moment.

I think a better call would have been to line up and see if you can get pitt to jump offsides, then you get a free play. Otherwise, take a delay of game, move back 5 yards and kick.

Going for it wasn’t a bad call. It shows faith in your O and in your D. Not many 99.5 yard drives end in a TD.

 

[JJacket]

I agree with the your last statement for sure, but really, we have a 6'7" receiver on a 6' guy. If Sims throws it like a jump ball instead of a Reggie pass out of bounds that no one can reach, I think it is a 70-30 he either comes down with the ball or gets the interference penalty. The PI would give us 4 more downs.

Sims still makes some easy passes look hard. I remember one where he rolled left and through behind a wide open receiver only about 8 yards downfield. I am 59 and could have made that pass. I just wish he was more consistent making the "easy" passes. But, it is easy for me to say, since I'm not getting hit constantly because of our swiss cheese O line.

Reggie threw a hella good fade.

 

[RaiderJacket]

I was at the game - not many of us there, and the weather was miserable to start, but it was a good time. Getting to the stadium with even that meager crowd was chaos - I can’t imagine what it’s like for a sold out NFL game.

Sims was frustrating. He was getting killed early (like 4 sacks?), so some happy feet are understandable, but there were a few times he ran too soon. And there were a few times he ran too late when there were yards to be had. Some near-picks that could have changed the game. But he ran hard and fought for yards at times, too. Just a very mixed bag from him.

The D was very impressive in the first without Charlie. We lost our mojo a little after a questionable roughing late in the first half, and then in kind of a prevent at the end, but they generally held up their end, especially with some huge turnovers. Some solid hits, pressure on the QB, and nice open field tackles, too.

Officiating seemed kind of haphazard. The roughing looked iffy. Missed the Hall TD late. Basically didn’t call pass interference. But it mostly worked in our favor, I guess. It was good to see a couple of our coaches getting after them after that weird substitution thing.

Not sure what Hall was thinking pulling up on that long run late - was he thinking it was one of those “we can ice it if we don’t score” situations? It was weird. But he looked pretty good, especially late. Dunno why Dontae didn’t get more touches. But Key seemed to be going with a slower rotation of RBs than we’re used to seeing.

The number of penalties Pitt racked up on punts was impressive - 2 per punt for a while there. They couldn’t block cleanly to save their lives. Good on the punt team for getting everything off. Shanahan seemed to be doing one step and kick pretty reliably. And we went with a more traditional formation with three blockers in the backfield, finally.

The O looked rough at times, with an amazing number of long downs (including 2 3rd and 23s on successive drives. We’ve got to get more consistent on offense. It would have helped if we hadn’t flubbed the couple of tricky/razzle dazzle plays we ran.

The only decision making complaints I have from the coaches were at the end of the game. Some iffy decisions (not kicking the FG to go up 15) and generally almost let things get away from us, turning a solid butt kicking into a squeaker.

But hey, it’s nice to get a big win and not embarrass ourselves. We’re gonna end up wishing we had that UCF game back, I bet.

JRjr

Dontae, more than likely, did not play because he took to social media to criticize or question the firing of Collins. Young people these days think they are in charge and throw tantrums if they don't get their way. Key will have to change the "culture" back to one of toughness and discipline for continued success.

I was at the game - not many of us there, and the weather was miserable to start, but it was a good time. Getting to the stadium with even that meager crowd was chaos - I can’t imagine what it’s like for a sold out NFL game.

Sims was frustrating. He was getting killed early (like 4 sacks?), so some happy feet are understandable, but there were a few times he ran too soon. And there were a few times he ran too late when there were yards to be had. Some near-picks that could have changed the game. But he ran hard and fought for yards at times, too. Just a very mixed bag from him.

The D was very impressive in the first without Charlie. We lost our mojo a little after a questionable roughing late in the first half, and then in kind of a prevent at the end, but they generally held up their end, especially with some huge turnovers. Some solid hits, pressure on the QB, and nice open field tackles, too.

Officiating seemed kind of haphazard. The roughing looked iffy. Missed the Hall TD late. Basically didn’t call pass interference. But it mostly worked in our favor, I guess. It was good to see a couple of our coaches getting after them after that weird substitution thing.

Not sure what Hall was thinking pulling up on that long run late - was he thinking it was one of those “we can ice it if we don’t score” situations? It was weird. But he looked pretty good, especially late. Dunno why Dontae didn’t get more touches. But Key seemed to be going with a slower rotation of RBs than we’re used to seeing.

The number of penalties Pitt racked up on punts was impressive - 2 per punt for a while there. They couldn’t block cleanly to save their lives. Good on the punt team for getting everything off. Shanahan seemed to be doing one step and kick pretty reliably. And we went with a more traditional formation with three blockers in the backfield, finally.

The O looked rough at times, with an amazing number of long downs (including 2 3rd and 23s on successive drives. We’ve got to get more consistent on offense. It would have helped if we hadn’t flubbed the couple of tricky/razzle dazzle plays we ran.

The only decision making complaints I have from the coaches were at the end of the game. Some iffy decisions (not kicking the FG to go up 15) and generally almost let things get away from us, turning a solid butt kicking into a squeaker.

But hey, it’s nice to get a big win and not embarrass ourselves. We’re gonna end up wishing we had that UCF game back, I bet.

JRjr

Dontae, more than likely, did not play because he took to social media to criticize or question the firing of Collins. Many younger people these days think they are in charge and throw tantrums if they don't get their way. Key will have to change the "culture" back to one of toughness and discipline for continued success. DS could have been out for other reasons but he did have one carry. I'm speculating on this.

 

[GTCrew]

Coaches go for it on 4th and goal from the one because usually that is a high percentage play. However we had basically been stuffed twice on what I assume were our best goalline plays. Our odds of making it were probably well below 50%. The playcall, and the result, supports that assertion being correct.

Know your team, kick the FG, take a lot of stress off the team by going up "3" scores (the third being a 2 point conversion to merely tie)

Being up only 12 means two TD and you lose, which we see so often for a team on a bad run of losing that they tighten up and wilt under pressure. We almost did.

But its good to have a sober analysis of the game itself like the OP.
(a) after years of Pitt cleaning our clock it was nice to see that we are not hopelessly behind them
(b) the final score combined with the turnover reality tells me Pitt wins more than half if these two teams played 10 times. They made too many mistakes and we made very few in this matchup. Granted, if we can magically maintain a 3-0 turnover ratio we are damn straight good enough to win a lot of games now, whereas under Collins we couldnt win games giftwrapped like this. But a lot of our fans have blinders and think "if we win we are better" when better teams lose all the time. Dont go overboard with your expectations.
(c) one simple obvious way to know if a coach is a joke is if his team cannot even start competently. Most remember how Hewitt's teams were incapable of inbounding a ball. In football, the equivalent is snapping the ball without false starting or being in an illegal position. Hewett left and magically the same players could inbound a ball. Was it not night and day here?

TL:DR - some fans are bipolar. We lose and we are worst team ever but we win and make tickets to the ACCCG. Please stop that. Take some drugs or something. The correct emotions now are relief that we are not hopeless, optimism that we can stop being embarassing, and realism that we are much improved but we needed Pitt mistakes to win and we cannot expect every other team to do that.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

Coaches go for it on 4th and goal from the one because usually that is a high percentage play. However we had basically been stuffed twice on what I assume were our best goalline plays. Our odds of making it were probably well below 50%. The playcall, and the result, supports that assertion being correct.

Know your team, kick the FG, take a lot of stress off the team by going up "3" scores (the third being a 2 point conversion to merely tie)

Being up only 12 means two TD and you lose, which we see so often for a team on a bad run of losing that they tighten up and wilt under pressure. We almost did.

But its good to have a sober analysis of the game itself like the OP.
(a) after years of Pitt cleaning our clock it was nice to see that we are not hopelessly behind them
(b) the final score combined with the turnover reality tells me Pitt wins more than half if these two teams played 10 times. They made too many mistakes and we made very few in this matchup. Granted, if we can magically maintain a 3-0 turnover ratio we are damn straight good enough to win a lot of games now, whereas under Collins we couldnt win games giftwrapped like this. But a lot of our fans have blinders and think "if we win we are better" when better teams lose all the time. Dont go overboard with your expectations.
(c) one simple obvious way to know if a coach is a joke is if his team cannot even start competently. Most remember how Hewitt's teams were incapable of inbounding a ball. In football, the equivalent is snapping the ball without false starting or being in an illegal position. Hewett left and magically the same players could inbound a ball. Was it not night and day here?

TL:DR - some fans are bipolar. We lose and we are worst team ever but we win and make tickets to the ACCCG. Please stop that. Take some drugs or something. The correct emotions now are relief that we are not hopeless, optimism that we can stop being embarassing, and realism that we are much improved but we needed Pitt mistakes to win and we cannot expect every other team to do that.

In bold is where I am at. I agree with your sober analysis of the situation. I am just glad we played a game without embarrassing clown behavior/decisions.

 

[andrew]

Not sure what Hall was thinking pulling up on that long run late - was he thinking it was one of those “we can ice it if we don’t score” situations? It was weird.

If it's the play I'm thinking of, he was both making sure he could stay inbounds and waiting for blockers to get into position.