Other Saturday Games

USCJacket said:
The offense had the ball 6 total minutes in the 1st half. How is this continually ignored? When the TOP is that lopsided, it doesn’t matter what defense you have. GT also has 3 turnovers. So you keep putting the unit struggling back on the field bad things are going to happen. And in this game, without question did. And fwiw the last TD to get to 27 was with less than 1:45 in the game.

The final TOP for the game was BG 42:45, GT 17:15. Against a lower tier MAC level team the GT OL was getting pushed around. When you can’t keep the defense off the field bad things happen. Been a GT issue for 15 years.
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It's not ignored. You simply don't accept how we assess the situation. I specifically stated, "...they were flat for an extended span." Yes, this put pressure on the D. However, ...it was flipping Bowling Green!

Let me give you an analog. In 2008, the O was very flat for Gardner-Webb. GW moved the ball around, but the D made stops along the way. That day, due to us playing the 3rd string QB, that GT team only scored 10 points (IIRC), but that D made stops - as they should have against a lesser foe - and we won. Last Saturday, against BG, the D did not make those stops and despite the O scoring 27 points (on a day then they normally would have scored 31 (passing up on a FG and an XP). As poorly as the O played at times, they still put up those points. Had the D even started to show up that would have been plenty to win.
 
stinger78 said:
It's not ignored. You simply don't accept how we assess the situation. I specifically stated, "...they were flat for an extended span." Yes, this put pressure on the D. However, ...it was flipping Bowling Green!

Let me give you an analog. In 2008, the O was very flat for Gardner-Webb. GW moved the ball around, but the D made stops along the way. That day, due to us playing the 3rd string QB, that GT team only scored 10 points (IIRC), but that D made stops - as they should have against a lesser foe - and we won. Last Saturday, against BG, the D did not make those stops and despite the O scoring 27 points (on a day then they normally would have scored 31 (passing up on a FG and an XP). As poorly as the O played at times, they still put up those points. Had the D even started to show up that would have been plenty to win.
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Offense "doing enough" to get a win over bowling Green is still nothing to celebrate. Going 3 and out three or four times in a row against that team in the second quarter would of been an embarrassment even if the defense shut them out and we won 31 to zip. Faulkner and the offense still have a lot to prove to come out of this season looking good. The problem with your GW analogy (aside from the QB thing you mentioned) is that offense did eventually prove themselves that year.
 
USCJacket said:
I’m not disagreeing with the stats related to the defense, but look at the offense in context outside of the BG game.

1. UofL - Outside of the 2nd quarter, the offense couldn’t do much in the 2nd half and the fumble return for a TD ended up costing GT a real shot at the win.

2. Ole Miss - GT managed 10 points offense through 3 quarters against a bad Ole Miss D. The D kept them in the game, and GT got within 7 at 24-17 mid 4th and then everything went sideways.

3. Wake - GT O was given plenty of chances to turn the game into a blowout and just couldn’t put Wake away late in the 1st half, and squandered chances in the 2nd half to make the 4th quarter relaxing to watch.

The overall team has holes and I won’t disagree that the D has more holes. This has been GT’s issue for the better part of the last 15 years.

As I’ve said before, year 2 under CBK will really show what the future will look like. I fully expect improvement on both sides of the ball in 2024. Year 2 in this offense and a new DC with hopefully some key Portal additions.

Good news overall regarding the D is, it could be much worse. Look at how bad LSU, USC, Ole Miss, South Carolina, Baylor etc are with all the resources they have at their disposal.
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We have to try and keep perspective, think about how abysmal our offense has been since CPJ retired, that level of ineptitude can’t be 100% turned around in 1 season
 
GTLiebs said:
Offense "doing enough" to get a win over bowling Green is still nothing to celebrate. Going 3 and out three or four times in a row against that team in the second quarter would of been an embarrassment even if the defense shut them out and we won 31 to zip. Faulkner and the offense still have a lot to prove to come out of this season looking good. The problem with your GW analogy (aside from the QB thing you mentioned) is that offense did eventually prove themselves that year.
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I'm not celebrating anything. I'm simply saying, while they contributed, they are not the cause of the loss last Saturday. That was on the D. It's why Thacker was demoted and not Faulkner. The O, bad as they were at times, scored plenty to win a game against flipping Bowling Green.
 
stinger78 said:
It's not ignored. You simply don't accept how we assess the situation. I specifically stated, "...they were flat for an extended span." Yes, this put pressure on the D. However, ...it was flipping Bowling Green!

Let me give you an analog. In 2008, the O was very flat for Gardner-Webb. GW moved the ball around, but the D made stops along the way. That day, due to us playing the 3rd string QB, that GT team only scored 10 points (IIRC), but that D made stops - as they should have against a lesser foe - and we won. Last Saturday, against BG, the D did not make those stops and despite the O scoring 27 points (on a day then they normally would have scored 31 (passing up on a FG and an XP). As poorly as the O played at times, they still put up those points. Had the D even started to show up that would have been plenty to win.
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Gimme a break. 13 of those offensive points were when the outcome had been decided.
 
stinger78 said:
I'm not celebrating anything. I'm simply saying, while they contributed, they are not the cause of the loss last Saturday. That was on the D. It's why Thacker was demoted and not Faulkner. The O, bad as they were at times, scored plenty to win a game against flipping Bowling Green.
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14 pts isn't enough to beat anyone. I don't count 13 garbage time points when we were down 38-14 in the 4th.
 
USCJacket said:
The offense had the ball 6 total minutes in the 1st half. How is this continually ignored? When the TOP is that lopsided, it doesn’t matter what defense you have. GT also has 3 turnovers. So you keep putting the unit struggling back on the field bad things are going to happen. And in this game, without question did. And fwiw the last TD to get to 27 was with less than 1:45 in the game.

The final TOP for the game was BG 42:45, GT 17:15. Against a lower tier MAC level team the GT OL was getting pushed around. When you can’t keep the defense off the field bad things happen. Been a GT issue for 15 years.
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You gotta love the people that blame our offense’s lack of production on our defense. Been chuckling about it all week. Hopefully we can figure out how to get a running game going.
 
stinger78 said:
I'm not celebrating anything. I'm simply saying, while they contributed, they are not the cause of the loss last Saturday. That was on the D. It's why Thacker was demoted and not Faulkner. The O, bad as they were at times, scored plenty to win a game against flipping Bowling Green.
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I guess what I mean is that while the O may of scored enough, they should of scored more. Against that bad, borderline FCS team they should of still scored more and the defense being why we lost doesn't change that.
 
stinger78 said:
It's not ignored. You simply don't accept how we assess the situation. I specifically stated, "...they were flat for an extended span." Yes, this put pressure on the D. However, ...it was flipping Bowling Green!

Let me give you an analog. In 2008, the O was very flat for Gardner-Webb. GW moved the ball around, but the D made stops along the way. That day, due to us playing the 3rd string QB, that GT team only scored 10 points (IIRC), but that D made stops - as they should have against a lesser foe - and we won. Last Saturday, against BG, the D did not make those stops and despite the O scoring 27 points (on a day then they normally would have scored 31 (passing up on a FG and an XP). As poorly as the O played at times, they still put up those points. Had the D even started to show up that would have been plenty to win.
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It was “flipping Bowling Green” as you put it that took 7 possessions to even move the ball and get points on after going up 14-0. So again, 50% of the blame goes to a piss poor offensive performance. Had GT lost 42-40, then you could have blamed the D in full.

Gardner-Webb is the best parallel you can come up with? GT won 10-7 with the 3rd string QB. That 2008 GT D was 1 of the 2 best D’s GT has had in the last 15 years as well. The D was the only reason GT beat BC early in the 2008 season. So that’s not a good comparison since Bowling Green is a MAC FBS program, GW is a middling FCS program.

Again, this drive chart is inexcusable against a MAC program

3 plays, 2 yards (1:28) - punt.
3 plays, -1 yards (0.50) - punt.
5 plays, 8 yards (1:02) - botched punt.
8 plays, 32 yards (1:53) - punt.

2nd half start:

8 plays, 62 yards (3:28) - Downs. (Couldn’t convert on 3rd & 4th and less than 1).
2 plays, 19 yards (0.39) - Pick 6.
8 plays, 81 yards - TD.

7 possessions after going up 14-0 produced 7 points for BG before GT scored another TD.
 
coit said:
You gotta love the people that blame our offense’s lack of production on our defense. Been chuckling about it all week. Hopefully we can figure out how to get a running game going.
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People only see what they want to see. Had the miracle not happened last night, would people be hammering the O production from last night before the final 2 plays? Doubt it. Not to the extent that the D has been pinned for all 3 losses.
 
stinger78 said:
I'm not celebrating anything. I'm simply saying, while they contributed, they are not the cause of the loss last Saturday. That was on the D. It's why Thacker was demoted and not Faulkner. The O, bad as they were at times, scored plenty to win a game against flipping Bowling Green.
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That’s a bad argument regarding Thacker vs Faulkner. The O did not score enough to win. The drive chart and stats don’t lie after going up 14-0. It was a team loss. Players said as much after the game. Both sides were bad.

Also, Thacker has been the DC for years. CBK tried to hire another DC before this year, and reports are he couldn’t land who he wanted and gave Thacker another chance to prove himself without Goof in the way.

You aren’t going to demote a brand new OC you just went out and hired based on 1 bad game in year 1 of the 4th new OC system in 5 years. That would have made absolute no sense. If things are struggling at the end of 2024, then CBK may make an OC change. I doubt that will end up being the case. I think Faulkner despite the O lulls in all 6 games has shown promise this offense will improve with some more pieces in 2024 (OL, WR, RB, TE). Hopefully GT can get a couple impact players from the Portal.
 
GTLiebs said:
I guess what I mean is that while the O may of scored enough, they should of scored more. Against that bad, borderline FCS team they should of still scored more and the defense being why we lost doesn't change that.
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You can say that for every loss. It really tells you nothing.
 
coit said:
You gotta love the people that blame our offense’s lack of production on our defense. Been chuckling about it all week. Hopefully we can figure out how to get a running game going.
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I’m not doing that either. Never did I blame offensive issues on the D. With all their various weaknesses that game, the O put 27 points up (even with the decisions not to kick the chip shot FG and the XP) while the D surrendered 31 points.

That’s all I’ll say. You guys aren’t trying to deal with what I’m saying, so we’ll just agree to disagree.
 
stinger78 said:
You can say that for every loss. It really tells you nothing.
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Came down the flu or some shit yesterday so was being overly harsh. A more reflective answer is even if the amount of points they scored should of been enough to win, struggling at all against such a low level of competition with starters in is a major cause of concern. Following that up with a game where they were shut down the majority of the night doesn't help; it was a much better defense so doesn't increase the concern as much, but doesn't alleviate it either.
 
GTLiebs said:
Came down the flu or some öööö yesterday so was being overly harsh. A more reflective answer is even if the number of points they scored should of been enough to win, struggling at all against such a low level of competition with starters in is a major cause of concern. Following that up with a game where they were shut down the majority of the night doesn't help; it was a much better defense so doesn't increase the concern as much but doesn't alleviate it either.
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Our O has certainly had its perplexing moments (quarters?) this season. No doubt about that - every single game so far. They are not w/o criticism. However, they have also generally had their "on" times every game, too, where they have rapidly put up some points. Our scoring has been 34 Louisville), 48 (SCSU), 23 (Ole Miss), 30 (WFU), 27 (BGSU), and 23 (Miami) points. The two best teams (ranking wise) that we've played were 23 points. That's a little light but not really bad. The 27 against BGSU should be seen as 31 as that's what the offense set us up for but not all were taken.

So, let's look at that a bit. In fact, if we take the FG instead of the failed 4th and 3 at the BG 14, the score becomes 24-17 and is a one-score game midway through the 3rd quarter. Then BG then scores a TD and goes up 14 at 31-17, but still in the 3rd quarter. Then we don't press, and we likely don't toss the pick 6. The D stood up after that and held them on out. So, we have 2 TDs (w/XPs) added on to tie the score at 31-31. The worst is it goes to OT, but perhaps if we score that TD instead of turning the ball over, the D steps up a series earlier and we win. Small things can and do often make a big difference.

Who knows, but I'm a big proponent of taking the points as they come. At that point it was only a 10-point game, and the FG would have made it a 7-point game. I think Key/Faulkner panicked there and it cost us.
 
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