Paul Johnson and retirement

Discussion in 'Football' started by georgia_tech_swagger, Nov 24, 2018.

  1. BigDanT

    BigDanT Actually John Goodman

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    With a top 25 class Johnson would have won the acc every year. Collins is proving that possible. I’ve never said a bad word about Johnson but now I’ll say that it was all just a bunch of excuses.
     
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  2. GEETEELEE

    GEETEELEE Dodd-Like

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    It was real, not excuses. And I'm not privy to any internal discussions, but I'm sure various guarantees of support, from funding to staff to academic exceptions, were promised to Collins as part of his deal.

    Of course Pepper got similar promises which were never fulfilled, but he managed to pissoff certain influential people.
     
  3. johncu

    johncu Dodd-Like

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    All very true. CPJ was definitely not his fiery self by the end of his tenure. I think after 2008 and 2009, everyone (including him) thought he would take the ACC (and the nation) by storm. It didn't happen, and it seemed like we started creating even more self-inflicted disadvantages on top of the structural ones we already had. All in all, CPJ had a very good tenure at GT, but damn if it didn't seem like the ball always bounced the other way.
     
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  4. johncu

    johncu Dodd-Like

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    No offense, but did you think this through? We were already struggling in recruiting, and you want the coach to come out publicly and say his offense is antiquated and drives away recruits?

    What we should have done is the exact opposite - sell, sell, sell our offense to recruits and the media. Our offense this past season was horrifically bad, yet players are excited to play in it. Why? Marketing. It seemed like CPJ's mindset was that winning would silence the haters, but it didn't happen that way. Despite the fact that our offense was 2nd only to Clemson in the ACC for most of his tenure, people still didn't see that. We really missed an opportunity, in hindsight.
     
  5. GTCrew

    GTCrew Well, I'll be...

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    I would believe that except for it costs zero resources to go visit 404 high schools, which is recruiting 101. By all accounts we were not really even visiting high schools regularly.
     
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  6. GTCrew

    GTCrew Well, I'll be...

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    I think he's talking post tenure. CPJ doesnt seem to mind criticizing the external to him reasons recruiting spiraled down while self criticism seems notably absent.
     
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  7. savbandjacket

    savbandjacket Dodd-Like

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    No, but he certainly could have done things different to market the program and offense differently. It would not have taken all that much to put some extra bells and whistles on the offense to give it the appearance of not being the high school dinosaur everyone thought it was. The biggest thing that needed to be done was getting rid of Sewak and teaching o linemen how to block. Instead it seemed that Johnson was hell bent on proving that this old system would work rather than showing he could adapt it and rule the world. The closest we ever got to change was the diamond formation with Vad Lee and that was a flash in the pan.

    I genuinely wanted him to succeed but he just seemed too set in his ways to adapt and it ended up hurting recruiting over time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
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  8. ElCidBUZZingFAN

    ElCidBUZZingFAN Dodd-Like

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    Have we had a coach who hasn't "complained" (use remarked if complain is too strong a word for you) that Tech can eat you up and spit you out as a head coach after awhile?
     
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  9. 18in32

    18in32 Petard Hoister

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    I don't know if CPJ agrees with that in his heart of hearts. When pressed on recruiting failures, he would return to his favorite rationalization – "That's kinda the deal around here before we got here." Meaning that prior Tech coaches usually had recruiting classes at about the same rank as his. And apart from that one shining moment that was the Jonathan Dwyer class (which even then wasn't *that* highly ranked), he's correct.

    Perhaps CGC is about to prove that it wasn't the scheme, it wasn't the school, it wasn't the co-eds... it was just that we needed the *right* coaches?
     
  10. txsting

    txsting Elite level sh*tposting

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    That's the best thing about the CGC hire, regardless of what results he comes up with. He's going to either disprove the theory that Tech can't recruit in the top 25, or he will die trying. We're going to find out what is possible, and that can be a new bar for other staffs.
     
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  11. GTLiebs

    GTLiebs Dodd-Like

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    The one comment I would have against is that it was a much tougher thing to sell by anyone because it got such a bad reputation before we ever played a game with it. With better marketing the recruiting prolly would of been better sure, but I don't know how much more so in the end. Along what savband said, probably the only way to save that offense from a marketing standpoint was to change it in some way. Then the question is, would that changed Paul Johnson offense of been as successful still, even if he was willing to change it?
     
  12. 18in32

    18in32 Petard Hoister

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    Yes, it's an interesting thought experiment that I know none of us want to engage in... but if CGC fails to recruit at a high level, and as a result fails to win at a high level, are we convinced that it just can't be done? and return to a guru/scheme coach the next time around?

    Let's not talk about that, because that's not going to happen. In a few years everyone will say, "GT has so many built in advantages... all the best academics, in fields that dominate the 21st century, with all the cultural and career attractions of Atlanta, and a packed, intimate stadium unlike anything else in P5 football."
     
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  13. daBuzz

    daBuzz Dodd-Like

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    I don't know that many people had to badmouth it at all. The truth is that the NFL has become a passing league and, despite what many might think, high school players are at least intelligent enough to realize as much. When your offense is predicated on running the ball 80 - 90% of the time, I don't care how much marketing and spin you do, it's a pretty hard sell to convince an elite player that a running offense is going to set up him for an NFL future.

    I actually think the biggest downfall in recruiting for CPJ was the insistence on the B-back starting with his hand on the ground like an NFL fullback would do. Had we just simply let our B-backs start from a standing position, we MAY have been able to convince more running backs that this offense would indeed benefit them. But when that B-back starts with his hand on the ground and the television announcer who isn't familiar with the A-back/B-back terminology calls him a fullback....that's not the message you want to send.
     
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  14. Walton

    Walton Varsity Lurker

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    It was likely a combination of things, a little bit GT, a lot of the AD and his lack of support, and a little bit Johnson's recruiting style. I'm sure he worked very hard at recruiting but he also worked very hard at coaching and his defenses typically sucked and his special teams were usually mediocre or worse.

    I can tell you this: if Collins had the 2008 & 2009 seasons and player success to sale, he would have marketed and sold the öööö out of it. He would have likely changed the perception of option offense. He would have had good angles to offset any negative recruiting.
     
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  15. savbandjacket

    savbandjacket Dodd-Like

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    All of that could have been fixed by:
    1. Eliminating the goofy flip step that QBs did when passing
    2. Two point stance for the RB (b back)
    3. A lot more drop passes to the RBs (b and a backs)
    4. Some shotgun or pistol sets.

    seriously. Uga’s offense since 1980 has been built around running backs catching the ball at or around the LOS.
     
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  16. txsting

    txsting Elite level sh*tposting

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    An honest to goodness hybrid of veer option concepts with a legit pass game would be hard to stop. Even if George Godsey is running it. Let's not pretend we haven't already proven the concept 20 years ago.
     
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  17. Yukonwreck

    Yukonwreck Dodd-Like

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    Down thru the years we have suffered greatly from pitiful leadership at the AD position. Homer Rice being a rarity.
     
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  18. Yukonwreck

    Yukonwreck Dodd-Like

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    probably valid?
     
  19. Yukonwreck

    Yukonwreck Dodd-Like

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    Is the assumption that Collins will not be capable of pissing off certain big hitters?
     
  20. txsting

    txsting Elite level sh*tposting

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    Of course you are correct. We will fight them in the living rooms. We will fight them in the helicopters. We will fight them with brown paper bags. We will never surrender!
     
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