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jimbobGT · May 19, 2003

Originally posted by 71Bee:

Do you agree, if no academic changes are made, long-term Tech will not remain competitive with schools with very low academic standards (i.e. football factories such as UGA, Auburn, Alabama, FSU, Miami)?

Define competitive. Are we going to win at least 50% of the games we play against them? No, I don't expect that. But I do expect us to play hard and have a chance to win, but we are not going to be as bad as Duke or Vandy. Our academics are not that restrictive. How are we supposed ever compete with Bama? They have juniors and seniors that are premajor studies. From their webpages, this is the description: Premajor studies is a freshman- and sophomore-level general education program. It is designed to help students identify and select courses of study that are suited to their needs, interests, and career goals. The premajor curriculum is an individualized blend of courses that satisfy general degree requirements of the University, introductory courses exploring programs of study, and career-related experiences in various divisions and departments.

These jokers have seniors who are premajor studies. What changes exactly do you all think we need to be competitive with that year in and year out??

Wrecked · May 19, 2003

This whole argument is a moot point anyway since the Regents would have to approve any additional majors and that is not going to happen. Also, I don't think that the new NCAA rules are in affect yet, so you can't blame that for our current problem. This appears to be a congruence of several things: an inept AD whose ideas on academic support failed the SA's, an new coach whose previous experience at running a program was at Troy St. and finally the SA's themselves who it appears may have just decided to quit on school the same way they did in Athens.

chilidogking · May 19, 2003

Originally posted by GoldZ:
chili, it doesn't require joke majors to improve the situation, but a broader choice of still challenging majors would indeed help. The pool of blue chip D-1 players is very small to begin with and offering such limited choices shrinks the pool that much more.

As for your other remarks...yes I did graduate...from GT and Harvard. Yes I did play football (not at GT), and it was easily the richest element of my "education". And finally, I have a very good grasp of the considerable load an athlete carries. If u could walk in their shoes just 1-2 semesters it would change your perspective a great deal.

By the way, that hotel management major is world famous at Cornell, you know as in IVY League. If you are surprised at this then u might want to rethink a few other "beliefs". THWG

Setttle down. I'm quite aware of the Hotel School and the graduates it produces. I've worked with a few of them since I graduated. However, a member of the GT athletic association spoke to my "History of Georgia Tech" class spring quarter 1999 and essentially told us that it was a cake major that was in place so that athletes could pass with little effort.

And you're right, my perspective would be different if I had played football, but I'm telling you these guys have an abundance of resources to ensure that they make a 2.0.

71YellowJacket · May 19, 2003

Originally posted by jimbobGT:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by 71Bee:

Do you agree, if no academic changes are made, long-term Tech will not remain competitive with schools with very low academic standards (i.e. football factories such as UGA, Auburn, Alabama, FSU, Miami)?

Define competitive. Are we going to win at least 50% of the games we play against them? No, I don't expect that. But I do expect us to play hard and have a chance to win, but we are not going to be as bad as Duke or Vandy. Our academics are not that restrictive. How are we supposed ever compete with Bama? They have juniors and seniors that are prestudies majors. From their webpages, this is the description: Premajor studies is a freshman- and sophomore-level general education program. It is designed to help students identify and select courses of study that are suited to their needs, interests, and career goals. The premajor curriculum is an individualized blend of courses that satisfy general degree requirements of the University, introductory courses exploring programs of study, and career-related experiences in various divisions and departments.

These jokers have seniors who are prestudies majors. What changes exactly do you all think we need to be competitive with that year in and year out?? I don't think we can.<hr /></blockquote>JimbobGT,

I agree! I would call being competitive having at least a 50% chance (and history) of winning when we step on the field.

Do you feel it's appropriate to schedule and play teams that we are not close to being competitive with? Reminder, we have never, repeat never, beaten FSU since they entered the ACC.

chilidogking · May 19, 2003

Originally posted by GoldZ:
chili, it doesn't require joke majors to improve the situation, but a broader choice of still challenging majors would indeed help.

Make no mistake - I am fully supportive of having a broader selection of CHALLENGING majors. Ironically, under Clough's leadership the number of majors has been expanded significantly, yet there are many people calling for his head over the whole grade debacle.

techrod · May 19, 2003

Jimbo, to me competitive means going into games truly believing we can win and winning 6 to 12 games a year. Under the present rules of engagement this CANNOT be done!! The curriculum will have to be broader, because of the ncaa's NEW RULES AND RAISING OF OUR OWN STANDARDS!! This is like we tied our own hands behind our back, and the ncaa put the noose around our necks!! Now the platform is fixing to be kicked away!

techrod · May 19, 2003

Chili, no matter what has been done in the past things need to change now whether there needs to be more added or other things lowered.

71YellowJacket · May 19, 2003

Originally posted by techrod:
Jimbo, to me competitive means going into games truly believing we can win and winning 6 to 12 games a year. Under the present rules of engagement this CANNOT be done!! The curriculum will have to be broader, because of the ncaa's NEW RULES AND RAISING OF OUR OWN STANDARDS!! This is like we tied our own hands behind our back, and the ncaa put the noose around our necks!! Now the platform is fixing to be kicked away!

Techrod,

I see two alternatives, either broaden our academic program and provide a course of study that appeals to top athletics, or re-structure our schedule so we play most of our games (if not all ) with teams we have at least a 50% chance of beating.

Changing our curriculum requires Board of Regents and possibly legislative approval; wish us luck.

Changing our schedule will require and act of God and movement away from the high $$ games like Miami, FSU, UGA, Auburn....

jimbobGT · May 19, 2003

Originally posted by 71Bee:
Do you feel it's appropriate to schedule and play teams that we are not close to being competitive with? Reminder, we have never, repeat never, beaten FSU since they entered the ACC.

You are picking an extreme example. FSU has been to the MNC game like 4 times since they have joined the ACC. Has anyone been the MNC more times than FSU in the last decade? So, its gonna be hard to beat them. We probably won't beat Miami for a long time either. Just because we haven't beaten FSS does not mean we can't be competitive.

techrod · May 19, 2003

Bingo 71. Although this could get MUCH worse!! Don't get mad but we may be talking club level football. Things have changed THAT MUCH. Basically it is the new ncaa formula for showing academic progress. I figured this out by reading all the post, but mainly what Carol moore said: there is NO way this can be fixed!!! a sobering statement indeed!!! Believe this could happen!!!

71YellowJacket · May 19, 2003

Originally posted by jimbobGT:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by 71Bee:
Do you feel it's appropriate to schedule and play teams that we are not close to being competitive with? Reminder, we have never, repeat never, beaten FSU since they entered the ACC.

You are picking an extreme example. FSU has been to the MNC game like 4 times since they have joined the ACC. Has anyone been the MNC more times than FSU in the last decade? So, its gonna be hard to beat them. We probably won't beat Miami for a long time either. Just because we haven't beaten FSS does not mean we can't be competitive.<hr /></blockquote>JimbobGT,

Last time I checked, it was common knowledge that FSU was a football factory before we supported their admission into the ACC. Extreme example? They are on our schedule because we wanted them in the ACC and on our schedule. They didn’t just appear there. Now we are walking down the isle with Miami. Guess what I predict we will do just as well against Miami as we have FSU over the next 15 years.

How big does the sample size need to be before we conclude the W/L record will not even out over time? There are substantive differences between Tech and the schools mentioned above to conclude we are not, and unless changes are made, will not be competitive with these schools.

If I am correct, other than for the $$$, why would we want to continue playing them?

Even considering the $$$$, is it worth it to see our team averaging no more than 50% wins in a season because we scheduled the “big name” teams?

I don’t think there is a solution that will allow us to maintain our current academic standards and be competitive with the best teams. If someone knows how (calling Dave Braine), I’m looking forward to hearing the plan.

techrod · May 19, 2003

It will take Prez Clod. It won't ever get done so look for NON COMPETITIVE football. The real test will be how many more players will be gone before fall practice!

Wrecked · May 19, 2003

Techrod, I admire your tenacity on President Clough, but what exactly can he do other than fire Dave Braine. He can't change the curriculum single handedly, he can't change the NCAA rules, he has worked with the Regents to expand Tech's offerings in the past. What else do you want him to do? I agree that our narrow curriculum offerings are a MAJOR hurdle for us to overcome, but it is going to take serious lobbying by some influential alumni with the Regents to convince them to duplicate Georgia State's course offerings at Tech.

ahsoisee · May 19, 2003

Okay fellas, I have been following your posts under this thread to educate myself on the academics at Tech.

From the cumulative data, it seems we have no way out because the Board of Regents is more for UGA and does not want us to provide methods to improve the academic environment for Tech. If this is so, I see only one possibility.

I understand Perdue played for UGA, but I also understand he has a kid at GT. I have met Purdue twice and have heard him speak. He appears to be a genuine person with sincere ideals.

Is it possible for some influential Tech people (Kim King, Larry Morris, etc.)to have a meeting with him and work on the Board of Regents from that perspective? It appears the Board of Regents is the only hope to add curriculum for football players to Tech.

Just thinking out loud!

General Wood · May 19, 2003

We would be well served to return to rounding up of GPAs, allowing kids to take classes out of sequence, offering more of the classes in the curriculum, and implementing a forgiveness rule for students who flunk a class (student flunks class retakes and passes, gets new grade vs. average of the two)IMHO changing to semesters has not helped, and we could go back to quarters.

just a few thoughts.

chilidogking · May 19, 2003

Originally posted by ahsoisee:
[QB]Okay fellas, I have been following your posts under this thread to educate myself on the academics at Tech.

From the cumulative data, it seems we have no way out because the Board of Regents is more for UGA and does not want us to provide methods to improve the academic environment for Tech. If this is so, I see only one possibility.
QB]

I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with a bias towards UGA. I think there is some sort of regulation preventing GT and UGAfrom having overlapping majors. Does anyone know if this is correct?

jimbobGT · May 19, 2003

Originally posted by General Wood:
allowing kids to take classes out of sequence, offering more of the classes in the curriculum

Hey General, why are these not allowed anymore? I used to remember you could pretty much sign up for any class on oscar/banner without having the prereqs. Plus how would this help SAs? Do you mean taking classes in parallel that aren't prereqs for each other?

Also, are you talking about offering more classes during the summer? I thought SAs were among the first students to register for class, so i don't think they would have a hard time getting a class they needed.

GSUJACKET · May 19, 2003

Does anyone really think, that the board of Regents, dominated by the University of Georgia, is going to allow the broadening of the curriculum at Tech? I am not a conspiracy theorist; However this same board would love it if that school in Athens were the only Div I football school in this state.

General Wood · May 19, 2003

jimbob

with the semester changeover there are fewer classes offered, and you know there are some professors that everyone avoids at all costs, but MGT in particular puts restriction on when (fr/soph/jr/sr) and what sequence courses must be taken. So, a student may have to take a Killer Cain or the Bamboo shaft. With fewer classes there are more time constraints, just pure logic.

jimbobGT · May 19, 2003

Originally posted by General Wood:

with the semester changeover there are fewer classes offered, and you know there are some professors that everyone avoids at all costs, but MGT in particular puts restriction on when (fr/soph/jr/sr) and what sequence courses must be taken. So, a student may have to take a Killer Cain or the Bamboo shaft. With fewer classes there are more time constraints, just pure logic.

got it, thanks for info!

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