Rumors

[GEETEELEE]

Collins has been here long enough to get a lot more depth on the line than what we have. We're still starting a cpj walkon who is struggling. Lots of accountability is needed.

Maybe a little more depth, but not much. OLine is the longest development term position on the team. 5-6 years at least starting from scratch like we are.

 

[18in32]

Oklahoma job open, but I don’t think Venable is exactly head coach material.

Why is that? I know many long time successful DC's like Mickey Andrews and Bud Foster wanted to be HC's but "didn't interview well" or whatever.

 

[QuadF]

Maybe a little more depth, but not much. OLine is the longest development term position on the team. 5-6 years at least starting from scratch like we are.

Most coaches have moved on by then, so your standard is one that's rarely tested empirically. I think that makes it wholly unrealistic.

 

[oldgold68]

Why is that? I know many long time successful DC's like Mickey Andrews and Bud Foster wanted to be HC's but "didn't interview well" or whatever.

No doubt he is a very good DC. Also no doubt that a HC position requires a whole different skill set to excel at the position. Just as good engineers don’t necessarily make good managers. Different job, different skills required. Case in point, CGC was reportedly among the best recruiters. He is now a HC. Different job, different skills required to excel.

 

[18in32]

No doubt he is a very good DC. Also no doubt that a HC position requires a whole different skill set to excel at the position. Just as good engineers don’t necessarily make good managers. Different job, different skills required.

Meaning you know something about Venables that makes you think that. What do you know?

 

[oldgold68]

Meaning you know something about Venables that makes you think that. What do you know?

I don’t know anything other than what I have stated. I have seen him in person and seen several interviews. He seems like a good person and very humble and laid back. Not at all like you see on the sidelines. He has no HC experience and some big name schools would shy away for that if no other reason. He was at OU and is reported to be on the short list for that job. They would know how he fits with their culture and alums.

 

[cbee]

He’s paid in the bottom 25% of power 5 and you’re getting bottom 25% results. You think $3.2mm is a lot but it’s actually very low. Those are facts.

What I do know is based on his performance, he is overpaid. Doesn’t matter what others make.

 

[THWUGA]

What I do know is based on his performance, he is overpaid. Doesn’t matter what others make.

So you want to fire him. That’s fair IMO. But our fans have to get it through their heads that the compensation bar literally can’t be set lower.

 

[MACHETE]

For those who have heard "rumors" of Key as the new OC, consider this:

Key was OC at Central Florida in 2015. Team Offense ranking: 126 out of 128 teams. UCF finished 0-12. NO THANK YOU.

2015 College Football Team Offense | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the 2015 College Football Team Offense and more about College Football at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

 

[CarsonNewmanJacket]

For those who have heard "rumors" of Key as the new OC, consider this:

Key was OC at Central Florida in 2015. Team Offense ranking: 126 out of 128 teams. UCF finished 0-12. NO THANK YOU.

2015 College Football Team Offense | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the 2015 College Football Team Offense and more about College Football at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

I mean you coulda just looked at our o line play from the last 3 years

 

[cyptomcat]

*Per my prior email* the 7 years is meaningless unless you take into account the front-loading/back-loading distinction. In other words, both sides will be evaluating the contract in terms of guaranteed dollars, not length of contract. The timeline is not long enough for time-value/interest rates to matter very much.

If this doesn't make sense, let me try explaining it differently.... A coach would be happy to take $12m guaranteed his first year, and $1m per year for every subsequent year. That puts the most money in his pocket as quickly as possible. OTOH, the AD would prefer $1m per year and $12m in the final year. That gives him more time to raise money, and also gives him a chance at avoiding payment if the coach violates the agreement.

So the *length* of the contract is not per se relevant unless you also talk about the overall guaranteed dollars. If CGC accepted a lower per year amount initially, it shouldn't raise eyebrows that he got a longer contract. The dollars would be the same.

And I have no idea what "unproven" HC's were getting in 2019 when he was hired. Do you have any evidence he was paid more than other "unproven" HC's were paid? From what I can glean from posts around here... his pay is near the bottom of the ACC and P5 spectrum.

As far as I can tell, the animosity towards TStan should be solely about hiring a bad coach, not about paying him too much.

I found this from the AJC:

Georgia Tech coach Geoff Collins’ seven-year contract averages $3.3 million and begins at $3 million for the 2019 season, about $152,000 less than former coach Paul Johnson was scheduled to make in this coming season. Collins’ pay will increase by $100,000 over the life of his seven-year contract, finishing at $3.6 million in 2025.

That's $23.1 million total.

Geoff Collins’ contract averages $3.3 million annually

Georgia Tech coach Geoff Collins’ seven-year contract averages $3.3 million and begins at $3 million for the 2019 season, about $152,000 less than former coach Paul Johnson was scheduled to make in this coming season. Collins’ pay will increase by $100,000 over the life of his seven-year...

www.ajc.com

I think 2018 was the last extension CPJ had which made the contract through 2022. 5 years, at about $3 million, that's a $15 million contract.

Paul Johnson’s contract extension finalized

The contract extension for Georgia Tech coach Paul Johnson has been completed, Tech announced Friday afternoon. Athletic director Todd Stansbury and Johnson’s Atlanta-based agent Jack Reale had been working on the extension since the 2017 season and reached an agreement in principle in January.

www.ajc.com

Before that, he had a 6 year contract after 2014, so let's just say approximately $18 million total.

I think we overcommitted to Collins considering he didn't even have any proven success at Tech unlike CPJ after 2014. Many criticized this at the time. I think it was a fair cliticization. Obviously, Collins negotiated well, it is what it is...

 

[savbandjacket]

Why is that? I know many long time successful DC's like Mickey Andrews and Bud Foster wanted to be HC's but "didn't interview well" or whatever.

Speaks volumes when people like Chuck Amato got hc positions.

 

[18in32]

I found this from the AJC:


That's $23.1 million total.

Geoff Collins’ contract averages $3.3 million annually

Georgia Tech coach Geoff Collins’ seven-year contract averages $3.3 million and begins at $3 million for the 2019 season, about $152,000 less than former coach Paul Johnson was scheduled to make in this coming season. Collins’ pay will increase by $100,000 over the life of his seven-year...

www.ajc.com

I think 2018 was the last extension CPJ had which made the contract through 2022. 5 years, at about $3 million, that's a $15 million contract.

Paul Johnson’s contract extension finalized

The contract extension for Georgia Tech coach Paul Johnson has been completed, Tech announced Friday afternoon. Athletic director Todd Stansbury and Johnson’s Atlanta-based agent Jack Reale had been working on the extension since the 2017 season and reached an agreement in principle in January.

www.ajc.com

Before that, he had a 6 year contract after 2014, so let's just say approximately $18 million total.

I think we overcommitted to Collins considering he didn't even have any proven success at Tech unlike CPJ after 2014. Many criticized this at the time. I think it was a fair cliticization. Obviously, Collins negotiated well, it is what it is...

Appreciate the research but I think the relevant comparison isn't CPJ's salary but what coaches with similar resumes to CGC were getting paid when hired in the market in 2019.

It is an interesting question whether CGC's outspoken passion for this particular job (being from Conyers, working here twice before, loving the ATL, etc.) would've increased or decreased his compensation.

 

[18in32]

What I do know is based on his performance, he is overpaid. Doesn’t matter what others make.

Agreed. But then we're talking about poetry and justice and 'fair play,' not economics. And definitely not about what TStan should've done when the contract was signed.

 

[cyptomcat]

Appreciate the research but I think the relevant comparison isn't CPJ's salary but what coaches with similar resumes to CGC were getting paid when hired in the market in 2019.

It is an interesting question whether CGC's outspoken passion for this particular job (being from Conyers, working here twice before, loving the ATL, etc.) would've increased or decreased his compensation.

ehh, I am not sure how many coaches are with similar resume to CGC, but "in the market" is a good point, as opposed to an extension like CPJ got.

In the same year of contracts beginning in 2019, a few data points on total contracts from my rough googling:
Holgorsen (Houston) $20 million
Miles (Kansas) $15 million
Klieman (Kansas State) $15 million
Satterfield (Louisville) $19.5 million

I'll stop there, but here is the list for the same year:

2018-19 NFL and College head coaching changes

With the coaching carousel underway, we've once again created the 2018-19 head coaching changes page to keep track of all the movement. On a similar note,

footballscoop.com

 

[18in32]

ehh, I am not sure how many coaches are with similar resume to CGC, but "in the market" is a good point, as opposed to an extension like CPJ got.

In the same year of contracts beginning in 2019, a few data points on total contracts from my rough googling:
Holgorsen (Houston) $20 million
Miles (Kansas) $15 million
Klieman (Kansas State) $15 million
Satterfield (Louisville) $19.5 million

I'll stop there, but here is the list for the same year:

2018-19 NFL and College head coaching changes

With the coaching carousel underway, we've once again created the 2018-19 head coaching changes page to keep track of all the movement. On a similar note,

footballscoop.com

Hmm... then it does seem like TStan made some questionable choices. Guaranteeing CGC 50% more than NC-winning Les Miles, is weird.

 

[cyptomcat]

Hmm... then it does seem like TStan made some questionable choices. Guaranteeing CGC 50% more than NC-winning Les Miles, is weird.

ehh, Miles was a washed up coach, title or not

I think Klieman and Satterfield are two guys that some wanted to hire at Tech. I thought we lost Satterfield because Louisville paid more, but it seems like he got a 6-year $3.2 million a year contract. Maybe after he rejected us, Stansbury decided to offer more money to the next guy...

 

[vapspwi]

I would also add that they need to do something about getting into the stadium. In all my 59 years of attending Tech games, even with the sellouts we had in the past, I never had to wait in lines as long as yesterday to get into the stadium

The first time the current system has had to contend with an actual crowd (and a crowd of mouth breathing, sibling humping U[sic]GA fans at that), so I’m not surprised there were problems.

That said, I went in gate 8/9 at about 11:20 or so after the band finished on the stairs, and it was no worse than usual.

JRjr

 

[WracerX]

Collins has been here long enough to get a lot more depth on the line than what we have. We're still starting a cpj walkon who is struggling. Lots of accountability is needed.

CPJ walkon OL were generally better than your typical walkon. Option walkons were usually gamers who were small. Prototypical ballers without the physical tools. Traditional walkons have the body size, but don’t have the killer instinct. Programs think they can grow the players into the roll. It is basically the anti-ridy vs the rudy.


Rudy was offsides, btw. He jumped the snap count and was past the Los when the ball was snapped.

 

[BrentwoodJacket]

The Texans should have fired him the year prior. He destroyed that franchise. The are paying for his mistakes now.

He is a good coach. He is an awful GM.