So Dabo is selling Jesus....

TechRush said:
When I played football I was pretty much forced to pray with the team just out of peer pressure. I never felt comfortable but never spoke up. I would just hold hands, close my eyes and look down quietly. By speaking up or doing my thing I felt like I would be a pork chop in a room full of wolves. Those Christians can get mighty ornery and start throwing labels on you like "atheist" just because you don't believe in praying or some magical angel is going to swoop down from the skies and make everything OK just because I asked him. Maybe other Clemson football players feel like this. I imagine it is hard to speak up when your coach is the one leading the charge. But then again Dabo is so overtly Christian if I was able to choose a college to play football it would not be Clemson, so maybe it cuts both ways.
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I love how you make your teammates seem like prejudicial people then turn around and use a phrase like "some magical angel is going to swoop down from the skies and make everything OK just because I asked him." Have to love when someone accuses others of prejudice even though they have no real evidence, just opinions, because they were to scared to stand up for what they believe. Even better when that someone mocks those same people's beliefs in the same paragraph he accuses them of prejudice. You sir, are a pioneer.
 
thwgjacket said:
You may want to pick up a copy of the Rules of Civil Procedure. If they sue and a judge finds the suit frivolous the attorney can get him/herself in some seriously hot water. Fines and disbarment coming their way.
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Ooh. Let me guess. You're a 1L.
 
TechRush said:
When I played football I was pretty much forced to pray with the team just out of peer pressure. I never felt comfortable but never spoke up. I would just hold hands, close my eyes and look down quietly. By speaking up or doing my thing I felt like I would be a pork chop in a room full of wolves. Those Christians can get mighty ornery and start throwing labels on you like "atheist" just because you don't believe in praying or some magical angel is going to swoop down from the skies and make everything OK just because I asked him. Maybe other Clemson football players feel like this. I imagine it is hard to speak up when your coach is the one leading the charge. But then again Dabo is so overtly Christian if I was able to choose a college to play football it would not be Clemson, so maybe it cuts both ways.
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:bigcry:

True stuff: most Christians don't care if you are praying with them or not. If you are on a team, you are expected to be respectful of what the team as a whole is doing. You don't have to pray. You don't have to care. You may personally think kneeling when the coach is talking is stupid, but you do it anyway. You may think huddling up and praying is stupid, but you huddle up and grin and bear it anyway.

The Inquisition ended a couple centuries ago. You can chill out with the persecution paranoia.
 
EffinDane said:
:bigcry:

True stuff: most Christians don't care if you are praying with them or not. If you are on a team, you are expected to be respectful of what the team as a whole is doing. You don't have to pray. You don't have to care. You may personally think kneeling when the coach is talking is stupid, but you do it anyway. You may think huddling up and praying is stupid, but you huddle up and grin and bear it anyway.

The Inquisition ended a couple centuries ago. You can chill out with the persecution paranoia.
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+1

Everybody loves to be the victim. It's bad enough when religious folks do it frivolously, but it seems especially pathetic when atheists get butthurt.
 
I love our so called libertarians on this board who so love the constitution except those parts they don't like. Easy enough just to call those parts out as butthurt enablers though or "well the Supreme Court got that wrong".
 
Diseqc said:
I love our so called libertarians on this board who so love the constitution except those parts they don't like. Easy enough just to call those parts out as butthurt enablers though or "well the Supreme Court got that wrong".
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Specifically, which parts are you referring to? I'm curious.
 
I don't see how the establishment clause applies in this case. Unless you want to strip all federal and state employees of their ability to practice religion while at work. I don't think that's the proper response to this situation or ones like it.

State employees are people too, yes they should be held to a higher standard when it comes to certain things, but not IMO, simply practicing their religion. Other employees would be allowed to baptize while at work, and it certainly doesn't seem to impact his performance with respect to what the state is paying him for which is win football games and create a winning culture at the Clemson football program.

Perhaps if he were using state funded time to devote to the practice of his religion, and the on-field results were also suffering the state could use it as evidence of poor performance due to inappropriate behavior while on the job, but I don't think that's the case here.

Sometimes I get tired of the lack of personality ascribed to federal and state workers. They are people with lives and beliefs too.

~~~~~

Long story short, I would agree that if Clemson University sated that they were now a Christian University, and all students were going to be required to be baptized or risk expulsion that would be a violation of the establishment clause. But one employee (albeit a highly public one) devoting some of his time to the practice of his religion, or allowing it on his watch is not the same.

Would you go after student-sponsored clubs in the same way? They are funded in part by the student body and in turn the state.

And in reality the establishment clause as originally written applied only to Congress as many states HAD in fact established religions that did not want the federal government tampering with them. Just a little tidbit worth mentioning, IMO depending on what brand of libertarianism and Constitutional Purity you're accusing of hypocricy.
 
TechRush said:
When I played football I was pretty much forced to pray with the team just out of peer pressure. I never felt comfortable but never spoke up. I would just hold hands, close my eyes and look down quietly. By speaking up or doing my thing I felt like I would be a pork chop in a room full of wolves. Those Christians can get mighty ornery and start throwing labels on you like "atheist" just because you don't believe in praying or some magical angel is going to swoop down from the skies and make everything OK just because I asked him. Maybe other Clemson football players feel like this. I imagine it is hard to speak up when your coach is the one leading the charge. But then again Dabo is so overtly Christian if I was able to choose a college to play football it would not be Clemson, so maybe it cuts both ways.
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When I played football, we would usually hear a sermon sometime before game time. One of my teammates told me all it did was make him feel guilty about what he planned to do after the game.
 
GTCrew4b said:
And in reality the establishment clause as originally written applied only to Congress as many states HAD in fact established religions that did not want the federal government tampering with them. Just a little tidbit worth mentioning, IMO depending on what brand of libertarianism and Constitutional Purity you're accusing of hypocricy.
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lol

I knew it was coming. "I love the constitution but that 14th amendment is bullshit".
 
Diseqc said:
lol

I knew it was coming. "I love the constitution but that 14th amendment is bullshit".
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I didn't say I agreed, just that, it's possible to have consistent political philsophy on this issue. Something you seem unwilling to allow.
 
DressCheeseSideSeaboard said:
When I played football, we would usually hear a sermon sometime before game time. One of my teammates told me all it did was make him feel guilty about what he planned to do after the game.
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Before our games we prayed for our well being and to avoid injuries. One of our RBs broke his leg on a TD scoring play (cheers to jeers in 1.3 secs). I've always wondered if it was because we didn't pray hard enough, God was too busy listening to someone else's prayer or the RB silently looking down at the ground during the prayer thinking about the after game festivities and it was payback time.
 
TechRush said:
Before our games we prayed for our well being and to avoid injuries. One of our RBs broke his leg on a TD scoring play (cheers to jeers in 1.3 secs). I've always wondered if it was because we didn't pray hard enough, God was too busy listening to someone else's prayer or the RB silently looking down at the ground during the prayer thinking about the after game festivities and it was payback time.
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I was going to ask what your record was to gauge your team's sincerity.
 
GT flunkout said:
+1

Everybody loves to be the victim. It's bad enough when religious folks do it frivolously, but it seems especially pathetic when atheists get butthurt.
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If you don't think the coach and others players promoting their religious faith puts pressure on people that don't share that faith, you are remarkably naive.
 
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