Take Steps Now to Keep Tenuta!!

GT98 · Dec 17, 2002

Originally posted by beeware:
It is easy to say that the defense was better but the stats don't seem to confirm it.

2002 versus 2001 defensive stats:

Scoring allowed per game....19.8 versus 22.2...slightly better this year.

Average rushing yardage allowed per game....130.3 versus 117.1....slightly worse this year.

Average passing yardage allowed per game....223.8 versus 216.2....slightly worse this year.

Total offense allowed per game.....354.2 versus 333.3...slightly worse this year.

Sorry, but I just don't see the improvement. This was a more experienced defense this year. We played without Gathers this year, but played without a healthy Daryl Smith last year. Last year we held 4 major opponents to 1 offensive TD...Syracuse, Maryland, Ugag, and Stanford.

Like I said earlier, if Roof had coached this defense exactly like Tenuta, he wouldn't be getting all this praise that Tenuta is getting... but statistically has not earned.

It all depends on how thick the tint is on the glasses apparently.

D. Smith missed 3 games last year. All-American Gathers missed all but 3 games this year. Further, you are discounting the loss of Nick Rogers (now w/the Vikings) plus Chris Young. Again, people are just pleased that Tenuta did a good job w/a defense that had less talent than last years' unit.

The one thing that would be interesting to look at would be time on the field vs. last year. I would be willing to wager that this defensive unit spent a LOT more time on the field versus last year's time due to a very mediocre offense this year (and hence, the extra ydg. given up).

After all, these stats cannot be bad since you have told us repeatedly that this staff (minus O'brien, of course) cannot coach or recruit, right?

bamawreck · Dec 17, 2002

Originally posted by beeware:
It is easy to say that the defense was better but the stats don't seem to confirm it.

2002 versus 2001 defensive stats:

Scoring allowed per game....19.8 versus 22.2...slightly better this year.

Average rushing yardage allowed per game....130.3 versus 117.1....slightly worse this year.

Average yardage allowed per game....223.8 versus 216.2....slightly worse this year.

Total offense allowed per game.....354.2 versus 333.3...slightly worse this year.

Sorry, but I just don't see the improvement. This was a more experienced defense this year. We played without Gathers this year, but played without a healthy Daryl Smith last year. Last year we held 4 major opponents to 1 offensive TD...Syracuse, Maryland, Ugag, and Stanford.

Like I said earlier, if Roof had coached this defense exactly like Tenuta, he wouldn't be getting all this praise that Tenuta is getting... but statistically has not earned.

It all depends on how thick the tint is on the glasses apparently.

if roof had coached this defense like this.....

we would all be in shock....you are forgeting one little fact...the offense 2002 vs 2001....ball control not quite as good as 2001/turnovers especially on our side of the 50/ time of possession/ the offense did not help the d....

i find it mindboggling you can make the claim a roof coor,mccarty, thompson,roof, and crossman coached staff last is even in the same league as the current staff. we made a huge upgrade in the coaching staff. hailey is comparable with roof...
spencer is heads and shoulders better than mccarty/thompson...and since crossman was the worst secondary we have had in years, modkins/tenuta look like hall of famers compared to dear ol' danny...

if our "supposed great staff" of 2001 was still coaching the d...with the same o and injuries .we go 4-8 or 5-7....after another 5-7 in 2003...your beloved mac would join solich in the 2003 class with tommy west, ray goff, mike dubose, carl torbusch, bobby williams in the "players coach, easy transition, great recruiting, assistants in way over their head club"

while you are throwing out numbers...how about this one...our former coach was 2 games over .500 w/o ralph.....don't bring up 95 or 96...in 2001 we went 7-5...but 7-5 in 2002 is a season squandered???
give me a break...you need to take off those oleary/mcwhorter ray-bans yourself...they have confused you into believing average is great...

i could continue with some more of your "myths" about last years staff. i would only be happy to.
but if you want continue, please start with 7-5 in 2001...

beeware · Dec 17, 2002

Originally posted by GT98:
The one thing that would be interesting to look at would be time on the field vs. last year. I would be willing to wager that this defensive unit spent a LOT more time on the field versus last year's time due to a very mediocre offense this year (and hence, the extra ydg. given up).

GT98,
Since you asked for it:

2002 Opponent time of possession....28 min 54 sec.
2001 Opponent time of possession....28 min 31 sec.

Is 23 seconds considered a LOT?....and if not, how much do you owe me?????

ncjacket · Dec 17, 2002

POST OF THE YEAR/MILLENIUM??? BEEWARE ACTUALLY ANSWERED A DIRECT QUESTION!!!! I think I need to lay down.

(and, will wonders never cease, the answer even made sense!!)

GTTerrific · Dec 17, 2002

Originally posted by ncjacket:
POST OF THE YEAR/MILLENIUM??? BEEWARE ACTUALLY ANSWERED A DIRECT QUESTION!!!! I think I need to lay down.

(and, will wonders never cease, the answer even made sense!!)

I'm in shock as well.

Am glad to see it!

ahsoisee · Dec 17, 2002

I will have to admit, I have seen BeeWare come up with quite a few post giving fact and data. That does not, however, absolve him from the neglignece of answering most of our direct questions detrimental to his side of most arguments.

GT98 · Dec 17, 2002

Originally posted by beeware:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by GT98:
The one thing that would be interesting to look at would be time on the field vs. last year. I would be willing to wager that this defensive unit spent a LOT more time on the field versus last year's time due to a very mediocre offense this year (and hence, the extra ydg. given up).

GT98,
Since you asked for it:

2002 Opponent time of possession....28 min 54 sec.
2001 Opponent time of possession....28 min 31 sec.

Is 23 seconds considered a LOT?....and if not, how much do you owe me?????

<hr /></blockquote>IF (and that is a big if ) your stats are true, then statistically, the difference is negligible at least on the stats you quoted. The other interesting stat for defense (besides scoring defense) is third down conversion rate. Another interesting comparison, would be to rank both the '01 and '02 defensive units relative to the offensive units they faced. For example, how poor was the '01 Navy or Duke or whomever unit ranked out of the Div. I schools vs. the '02 opponents. This could be a relative strength measure, so to speak.

Even if the stats are EXACTLY the same, I still maintain that Tenuta did a better job than Roof since he was working w/less overall talent (as evidenced by the departures from the d-line to both injury and NFL).

GT98 · Dec 17, 2002

Originally posted by bamawreck:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by beeware:
It is easy to say that the defense was better but the stats don't seem to confirm it.

2002 versus 2001 defensive stats:

Scoring allowed per game....19.8 versus 22.2...slightly better this year.

Average rushing yardage allowed per game....130.3 versus 117.1....slightly worse this year.

Average yardage allowed per game....223.8 versus 216.2....slightly worse this year.

Total offense allowed per game.....354.2 versus 333.3...slightly worse this year.

Sorry, but I just don't see the improvement. This was a more experienced defense this year. We played without Gathers this year, but played without a healthy Daryl Smith last year. Last year we held 4 major opponents to 1 offensive TD...Syracuse, Maryland, Ugag, and Stanford.

Like I said earlier, if Roof had coached this defense exactly like Tenuta, he wouldn't be getting all this praise that Tenuta is getting... but statistically has not earned.

It all depends on how thick the tint is on the glasses apparently.

if roof had coached this defense like this.....

we would all be in shock....you are forgeting one little fact...the offense 2002 vs 2001....ball control not quite as good as 2001/turnovers especially on our side of the 50/ time of possession/ the offense did not help the d....

i find it mindboggling you can make the claim a roof coor,mccarty, thompson,roof, and crossman coached staff last is even in the same league as the current staff. we made a huge upgrade in the coaching staff. hailey is comparable with roof...
spencer is heads and shoulders better than mccarty/thompson...and since crossman was the worst secondary we have had in years, modkins/tenuta look like hall of famers compared to dear ol' danny...

if our "supposed great staff" of 2001 was still coaching the d...with the same o and injuries .we go 4-8 or 5-7....after another 5-7 in 2003...your beloved mac would join solich in the 2003 class with tommy west, ray goff, mike dubose, carl torbusch, bobby williams in the "players coach, easy transition, great recruiting, assistants in way over their head club"

while you are throwing out numbers...how about this one...our former coach was 2 games over .500 w/o ralph.....don't bring up 95 or 96...in 2001 we went 7-5...but 7-5 in 2002 is a season squandered???
give me a break...you need to take off those oleary/mcwhorter ray-bans yourself...they have confused you into believing average is great...

i could continue with some more of your "myths" about last years staff. i would only be happy to.
but if you want continue, please start with 7-5 in 2001...<hr /></blockquote>Nail, Hammer, Head..........WHAM!!!!!!!!!!!!

beeware · Dec 17, 2002

This defense was a very inconsistent defense. At times they looked great and at other times they looked terrible. Wake, Ugag, and the second half of Maryland games were terrible.
This defense is getting a lot of praise on here, but if Roof had been back this year and had done exactly the same job that Tenuta did, I doubt he would be getting all this praise.
Why did Roof get so much grief over the Virginia and Clemson games last year but Tenuta gets a pass on the Ugag and Maryland games?
Apparently it is just whatever lense is in your glasses.

casbah62 · Dec 17, 2002

Although statistics often times tell a good tale... the truth is, more often than not, a measure of unquantifiable standards...
Rarely this past season did my heart sink when our defense came on the field... In fact they were called on time and again to SAVE the DAY... 3 and outs were a reality this year, big stops in our own territory were a reality...
In fact the defense was asked to play a much larger role this year than in seasons past....
When a high powered offense is putting points on the board it forces the opponent to take chances and allows the defense to be more opportunistic... Lacking the high powered 'O' this season our 'D' was forced to play it close to the vest in nearly every game...
So although the stats may give a fair assessment of the team they in no way reflect the actual game type situations that the team was forced to respond to... I for one love the job the 'D' did this year... if only our offense would have played with the same energy and intensity we may have won another 1 or 2...

beeware · Dec 17, 2002

Originally posted by GT98:
IF (and that is a big if ) your stats are true, then statistically, the difference is negligible at least on the stats you quoted. The other interesting stat for defense (besides scoring defense) is third down conversion rate.....

Even if the stats are EXACTLY the same, I still maintain that Tenuta did a better job than Roof...

GT98,
An even more thorough review of the stats just doesn't back you up.

2002 versus 2001

3rd Down conversion rate...33% versus 39%...slightly better this year.

4th Down conversion rate...44% versus 38%....slightly better last year.

Fumbles Caused/Recovered....19/9 versus 20/11....slightly better last year.

Average yardage given up per play....5.1 versus 4.9....slightly better last year.

Average yardage given up per pass....6.6 versus 6.7...slightly better this year.

Average yardage given up per completed pass....12.3 versus 12.2....slightly better last year.

Interceptions.....11 versus 11....same both years.

The bottom line is this....if you compare the last two years defenses objectively...you will see that this year's defense was not improved, even though it was a much more experienced defense.
All this praise for Tenuta over Roof is statistically unjustified and is just sour grapes for Roof.
Roof is at least as good as Tenuta now and is continually getting better. He is a much better recruiter and is a TECH man. I would take Roof over Tenuta anyday...and the statistics speak a lot louder than the if-I-say-it-enough-it-must-be-true FOCers.

I have no objection with someone liking Tenuta's style of defense over Roof's...or vice-versa....but to say this year's defense is better than last years can be (and has been

) proven not to be true.

And GT98, you never did tell me how much you owe me!!!

GT98 · Dec 17, 2002

beeware,

thanks for taking the time to dig up the stats; very interesting comparsion. the one thing you conviently (sp) left out (and that makes my point) is that Tenuta HAD LESS TALENT TO WORK WITH than Roof did. Further, you could argue that Tenuta's unit was under more pressure to make stops since we did not have near the offensive unit this season than last.

statistically, the defense difference between the units is not much, as you have pointed out; however since this unit had less talent (most objective observers would argee that losing an all-american DE and another to the NFL, plus an all conference secondary player in Young) is less talent, what was the reason that Tenuta was able to match the hall of fame seattle bowl staff????

i'll be happy to buy you a beer--say at the next lunch bunch; you could kill 2 birds w/one stone--free beer from me

and you could address the AD and/or coaching staff that you loathe so much directly. you have written Pres. Clough and Braine to voice all of the displeasure you have w/the program or did it only find its way onto a message board?

bugboy · Dec 17, 2002

It's too bad that this thread has been turned into another "Stingtalk Special" with it's comparison of the coaches from GOL's staff vs. this year.

Forget about Roof. Forget about Mac. Forget about all of that.

Let's just focus on Tenuta and the fact that we need continuity with our defensive staff. I hope he stays. I hope we do whatever it takes to keep him. It can not be denied that the defense was the strength of this year's team. How they statistically compared to 2001 is immaterial. The fact is that we won with defense this year. We went 7-5 unfortunately, but our D kept us in 10 games and gave us a chance to win. In the 2 collapse games (MD,GA), the offense didn't look good either. Oh, we gained some yards against MD, but no points.

Let's just focus on keeping Tenuta. I think that anyone that looks at this team will see that our biggest problems are on offense.

GT98 · Dec 17, 2002

Originally posted by bugboy:
It's too bad that this thread has been turned into another "Stingtalk Special" with it's comparison of the coaches from GOL's staff vs. this year.

Forget about Roof. Forget about Mac. Forget about all of that.

Let's just focus on keeping Tenuta. I think that anyone that looks at this team will see that our biggest problems are on offense.

bugboy,

beeware and i are just having fun. he and i are really great friends, really.

beeware · Dec 17, 2002

bug,
It seems that most people on this board just assumed that this year's defense was better than last year's.

It is just not true. It is specifically, statistically not true...even though everyone seems to assume it to be true. A thorough review of the statistical comparison (above) conclusively proves this.

I knew that it appeared to me that the defense was roughly equal to last years in the 8 games that I attended in person, and watching everyone of these on tape replay. And, also, watching the other games on tv.

As 71 bee pointed out, it seems everyone thinks the defense is better because the offense is worse. The part about the offense being worse is true, very true....even though we had the same co-ordinator....wonder what changed on offense??? hmmm.

It is just interesting that everyone heaps so much praise on Tenuta and mostly scorn on Roof when the jobs they did are essentially equal.

Everyone is obviously entitled to their own opinion. My opinion is that, overall, I will take Roof any day.

bugboy · Dec 17, 2002

The main stat that I find interesting is that we held our opponents to under 20 points a game. That's pretty darn good, and that includes the 51 spot that GA hung on us. That shows that our D did their job (except for the massacre).

The key next year is to not have a game where we don't show up. We don't need another 51-7 type romp. We need to make our opponents earn their victories over us (or earn their losses

).

So, in summary, I'd say we had a good defense this year that needs some improvement in the consistency category. My guess is that another year under Tenuta's system will help with consistency.

71YellowJacket · Dec 17, 2002

kingster:
"There is no point in this comparison. One is here for now, one is not.

No comparison is complete till season is over and we still have one more game this year."

I used to think that; bowl games were the cap to a successful season, not anymore.

The going to a bowl game (middle of the pack games and worse) has evolved to a pre-season game for the coming season; a chance to try out a few players and plays.

For me, Tech's bowl game in the first of the 2003 final exams. Looking forward to see who passes the test.

GTTerrific · Dec 17, 2002

Originally posted by beeware:
bug,
It seems that most people on this board just assumed that this year's defense was better than last year's.

It is just not true. It is specifically, statistically not true...even though everyone seems to assume it to be true. A thorough review of the statistical comparison (above) conclusively proves this.

I knew that it appeared to me that the defense was roughly equal to last years in the 8 games that I attended in person, and watching everyone of these on tape replay. And, also, watching the other games on tv.

As 71 bee pointed out, it seems everyone thinks the defense is better because the offense is worse. The part about the offense being worse is true, very true....even though we had the same co-ordinator....wonder what changed on offense??? hmmm.

It is just interesting that everyone heaps so much praise on Tenuta and mostly scorn on Roof when the jobs they did are essentially equal.

Everyone is obviously entitled to their own opinion. My opinion is that, overall, I will take Roof any day.

I'm of the opinion that this years defense is better than last years. You say it's not true. That's your opinion.

Why do you have to be so harsh in everything you state?

You are going to use any opportunity to talk down this years team and talk up the last years team. In a lot of peoples thinking it has to do with the coaching staffs itself.

You can say what you want and bring up stats all you want, but you've killed your credibility already many times. You're hurting your own cause in my opinion because of the way you act which in my opinion is bitter and angry.

Stats don't always tell the hole story.

What is the purpose of your

? You're making it personal between you and other posters.

CrackerJacket · Dec 17, 2002

Originally posted by beeware:

Everyone is obviously entitled to their own opinion. My opinion is that, overall, I will take Roof any day.

Well...My opinion is you need to go cheer for Duke
(where Roof is) or Texas (where McWhorter is).

You obviously don't care much for the current
GT staff or program.

GT98 · Dec 18, 2002

beeware,

you miss the salient point that you have failed to address since it does not suit your argument--Tenuta's unit is statisitcally (roughly) equal to Roof's last year w/the difference being that Tenuta did it w/less talent. So what conclusion does that tell you?

Further, the offense being poor this year had much more to do w/GT losing the 2nd best QB in history, its all-time receiver (since you like stats) and the workhorse Joe Burns. Now, if Godsey and crew were still here and the offense was still mediocre, then you would have a more valid argument. Even if Gailey is the worst offensive mind in the history of football or if O'brien is the greatest offensive mind since the Fridge is not evident from this year's offense due to the play of the QB. The playcalling outside of the Clemson game was pretty good--the offensive execution was not, starting w/the QB.

Take Steps Now to Keep Tenuta!!

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