Vad Lee, scout team qb extraordinaire?

[gtrower]

I'd have no problem burning Vad's redshirt in week 8....especially if we were still in the mix for a bowl or better. That's 5 games he could get valuable live experience that would serve him well as the starter next year.

You would hypothetically burn his RS in week 8 to be a 2nd stringer playing when our starter gets banged up and needs to sit a few plays out??? I feel like im taking crazy pills here.

 

[Legal Jacket]

I'd have no problem burning Vad's redshirt in week 8....especially if we were still in the mix for a bowl or better. That's 6 games he could get valuable live experience that would serve him well as the starter next year.

The only reason we should burn Vad's redshirt is if we think he's got a real shot of leaving before his senior year or it's clear by week 8 that we have no chance of ever winning with Days OR Tevin.

If we are 4-4 through 8 though, I don't think you burn the RS. For one, it's basically starting over when you need to win games. Two, I don't think the gap between TW/SJ and Vad justifies getting Vad in for four games (although obviously haven't seen him run our offense). Three, you want to avoid having Vad and SJ days be the same class for compression purposes. Much easier to plan around losing one QB one year and another the next as opposed to losing two QBs in one year. Four, Vad may not start next year, either, and instead play behind SD. If that's the case, he'll get the same experience you are talking about in mop up duty / when SD is injured next year.

If Vad is THAT good, we need to redshirt him to get as many years as we can (I think it's going to be difficult going pro early with our offense).

If Vad isn't that good, he's not going to be much of an upgrade anyways.

Either way, I think we need to be patient and not pressure Vad to get in there until he's ready.

 

[bonham]

You would hypothetically burn his RS in week 8 to be a 2nd stringer playing when our starter gets banged up and needs to sit a few plays out??? I feel like im taking crazy pills here.

Absolutely. This assumes, of course, that Vad practices well. If Vad has not come up to speed enough to be serviceable by week 8, then we are in real trouble...which goes back to my earlier facetious comment about forfeiting the rest of the season.

Trying to salvage a redshirt when there is so much football left to be played is borderline retarded. If Vad is the best option, put him in there.

 

[gtrower]

Absolutely. This assumes, of course, that Vad practices well. If Vad has not come up to speed enough to be serviceable by week 8, then we are in real trouble...which goes back to my earlier facetious comment about forfeiting the rest of the season.

Trying to salvage a redshirt when there is so much football left to be played is borderline retarded. If Vad is the best option, put him in there.

What? If he's 2nd string already then the point is moot because there's no way we're going to be able to keep a RS on a 2nd string QB - the starter is going to get banged up and at the very least have to take a series or two off during the course of the season.

We're talking about Vad being the 3rd string (scout team) QB which is by far the most likely outcome to start the season. We're talking about if Tevin OR Synjyn gets hurt, who do we bring in to be the back-up who in all likelihood will have to take a few snaps over the last few games of the season. Salvagaing a RS in this situation is absolutely not retarded - in fact you're calling CPJ retarded b/c he said that's what he did last season when Nesbitt went down. He has said had he gone down earlier in the season he might have burned Days's RS.

We'd have to have both Days AND Washington get hurt to even think about "starting" Lee from scout team.

 

[bonham]

If Vad is THAT good, we need to redshirt him to get as many years as we can (I think it's going to be difficult going pro early with our offense).

See, this is where I completely disagree. The whole "going pro" thing doesn't even factor in. You have no idea if a player will go pro 3 years down the road.

If Vad is THAT good, he needs to get on the field. You don't redshirt your best players. You redshirt players if they simply are not physically ready and/or there is too much experienced depth ahead of him at the position, and an extra year can be used to develop the player. This clearly doesn't apply here. Our returning starter went 1-5 last year without much upside and his backup has never taken a live snap.

 

[gtrower]

See, this is where I completely disagree. The whole "going pro" thing doesn't even factor in. You have no idea if a player will go pro 3 years down the road.

If Vad is THAT good, he needs to get on the field. You don't redshirt your best players. You redshirt players if they simply are not physically ready and/or there is too much experienced depth ahead of him at the position, and an extra year can be used to develop the player. This clearly doesn't apply here. Our returning starter went 1-5 last year without much upside and his backup has never taken a live snap.

Yeah, because we didn't waste a year of Nesbitt's eligibility or anything. Playing in '07 as a backup was clearly more important than being a Heisman candidate in '11.

 

[awbuzz]

Yeah, because we didn't waste a year of Nesbitt's eligibility or anything. Playing in '07 as a backup was clearly more important than being a Heisman candidate in '11.

... that was a short lived candidacy...

 

[bonham]

What? If he's 2nd string already then the point is moot because there's no way we're going to be able to keep a RS on a 2nd string QB - the starter is going to get banged up and at the very least have to take a series or two off during the course of the season.

We're talking about Vad being the 3rd string (scout team) QB which is by far the most likely outcome to start the season. We're talking about if Tevin OR Synjyn gets hurt, who do we bring in to be the back-up who in all likelihood will have to take a few snaps over the last few games of the season. Salvagaing a RS in this situation is absolutely not retarded - in fact you're calling CPJ retarded b/c he said that's what he did last season when Nesbitt went down. He has said had he gone down earlier in the season he might have burned Days's RS.

We'd have to have both Days AND Washington get hurt to even think about "starting" Lee from scout team.

In this offense, the QB that starts out the season as third string could very well become the starter during the season with injuries. Last season, we had Nesbitt, TW, Sims, and Days start the season in that order. So even if TW went down, we still had Sims. So I am not sure where Days factored in last season.

This year we will have TW, Days, Vad, and.... Dickey?

Vad should be primed to play this year. Forget about the redshirt.

 

[Legal Jacket]

See, this is where I completely disagree. The whole "going pro" thing doesn't even factor in. You have no idea if a player will go pro 3 years down the road.

If Vad is THAT good, he needs to get on the field. You don't redshirt your best players. You redshirt players if they simply are not physically ready and/or there is too much experienced depth ahead of him at the position, and an extra year can be used to develop the player. This clearly doesn't apply here. Our returning starter went 1-5 last year without much upside and his backup has never taken a live snap.

Yeah you do, for the most part. See Stafford, Calvin, etc. Happens all the time. Why would you burn one of the 3-4 years you have a player by redshirting them? As a simple matter of logic, if a player is good enough to go pro after three or four years, you don't want to waste one of those years having them redshirt. If you don't play them, you end up with a Vick or Moreno type guy - someone who spends 33% of their time in college on the bench redshirting.

It's a little tougher to tell with QBs, particular option QBs, but most coaches should have a pretty good feeling. Hell, all of us knew Calvin was going pro early when he was a Freshman.

I see your reasoning, though, and agree with most of it. There's a big difference in managing a roster knowing that someone will be around for five years versus there being a good chance they may go.

Vad can clearly use another year to develop, just because he doesn't know our offense yet. Without doubt Vad will be better each year of his career if he redshirts. If there's a chance you think he's good enough to go pro early, you automatically don't redshirt him bc it does your team no good to lose a year of eligibility. I agree with you though, if he's that good he probably sees the field anyways.

The big thing to me is I have serious doubts that true FR Vad can get it done in this offense with no prior experience. That's the extra year that DOES apply here.

Plus (and I feel like I've gone over this a million times now), TW was not the reason we lost any of those 5 games, aside from MAYBE AF. Numbers wise he was just as good, if not better, than Nesbitt last year.

 

[Legal Jacket]

In this offense, the QB that starts out the season as third string could very well become the starter during the season with injuries. Last season, we had Nesbitt, TW, Sims, and Days start the season in that order. So even if TW went down, we still had Sims. So I am not sure where Days factored in last season.

This year we will have TW, Days, Vad, and.... Dickey?

Vad should be primed to play this year. Forget about the redshirt.

No, it's pretty clear that if one of TW or Days goes down with injury, Sims will be moved back to QB to fill in the 2-3 deep. He's spent some time learning the offense, he's not going to magically forget everything just because he's also learning another position.

 

[Legal Jacket]

Yeah, because we didn't waste a year of Nesbitt's eligibility or anything. Playing in '07 as a backup was clearly more important than being a Heisman candidate in '11.

Bingo. Even if not a Heisman candidate, we would have benefited TREMENDOUSLY from having Nesbitt around this year. A lot more than we got from him as a TF.

Either Vad is good enough to start every game and play most plays (which I doubt will happen, given that part of being good in this offense is knowing where to go and what to do) or he should be redshirted. There's no reason to waste a year of eligibility playing him in 5-6 series over the course of the year.

 

[stinger78]

I think Vad will get *some* reps. It would be different if he was a BB this year and had four guys ahead of him. TW and SJ will get most of the reps by far, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Vad get a series or two every practice since there are only 2 QBs ahead of him on the depth chart. Otherwise those reps are going to Dickey.

Vad is one of the major prospects, if not THE major prospect, for QB going forward. He will get reps in the O this fall. He won't get as many with the 1st/2nd team as TW and SD get, but he will get reps.

Whether or not to burn a RS late in the season is a completely different question, and makes no difference as to whether or not Vad gets reps. Unless the Sims experiment is a failure and it's not) he will start out the 3rd string QB and by that fact he will get some reps.

 

[hdtvfan]

... that was a short lived candidacy...

He is talking about potentially being a candidate for this year if he had not already burned eligibility but I do understand your point, it is not a viable candidacy in any event.

 

[MtownJacket]

If we need to burn Vad's redshirt to win a single game it is worth it.

I predict Vad will not start but his redshirt will be burned.

Days' redshirt was close to being burned last season.

 

[bonham]

No, it's pretty clear that if one of TW or Days goes down with injury, Sims will be moved back to QB to fill in the 2-3 deep. He's spent some time learning the offense, he's not going to magically forget everything just because he's also learning another position.

Again, that makes no sense. Why even move Sims to Bback in the first place if you are just going to move him back to QB?

Sims should have just stayed at QB if we were so hell bent on redshirting Vad this season.

 

[Geori]

If he allows us to win one more game this year, we should burn his redshirt

 

[Legal Jacket]

Again, that makes no sense. Why even move Sims to Bback in the first place if you are just going to move him back to QB?

Sims should have just stayed at QB if we were so hell bent on redshirting Vad this season.

Dude, you make no sense. Let me type very slowly for you.

No coach plans on players getting injured. In an ideal, injury free, roster, Sims will play BB. That means, until there is an injury, Sims will play BB. Again, just so you can understand it, UNLESS there is an injury, Sims will play BB. ONCE (and only if) there is an injury, Sims will likely move to QB.

It makes perfect sense when you actually use your brain. With a healthy roster, we need Sims more at BB (hence, he's a BB). If there is an injury, we'll need him more at QB (hence, he's a QB).

 

[bonham]

Dude, you make no sense. Let me type very slowly for you.

No coach plans on players getting injured. In an ideal, injury free, roster, Sims will play BB. That means, until there is an injury, Sims will play BB. Again, just so you can understand it, UNLESS there is an injury, Sims will play BB. ONCE (and only if) there is an injury, Sims will likely move to QB.

It makes perfect sense when you actually use your brain. With a healthy roster, we need Sims more at BB (hence, he's a BB). If there is an injury, we'll need him more at QB (hence, he's a QB).

Can you think of a single year that we have run this offense that QB injuries were NOT a factor? In 2008, we had Calvin freaking Booker playing for Pete's sake. Nesbitt didn't miss much time in 2009 but he was banged up much of the season. We all know what happened in 2010. I find your assertion that PJ wouldn't plan for QB injuries in this type of offense to be absurd.

QB injuries WILL happen in this offense and we DO need to plan for it. You just don't move players around randomly and plug them in. If Sims plays the entire spring and fall as Bback, he is going to stay there unless Vad completely disappoints. He is NOT going to switch back to QB just to salvage Vad's redshirt.

 

[LongforDodd]

Usually practices are split up with one main facet being individual position drills (or, for example, QBs working on the mesh with BBs or QB/BB/AB/WR skeleton drills). Another main facet is scout team.

I think a lot of posters on here have misconceptions about what Scout team is. It is NOT a test of skills. It's NOT designed to be a 100% accurate depiction of the other team.

It IS, however, a test of knowing the scheme and the gameplan at 80-90% speed.

If you think our walkons without more than a week of practice can emulate teams like uga, VT, Clemson, UNC, FSU, etc. you're crazy. That's not the point. The point is, here's a play you are going to see Saturday. Are you in the right position? Did you cover your assignment?

It's more of an instance to work on the mental aspect of preparation. The skills part (tackling, running, getting off blocks or, in Vad's case, learning the offense) comes from the other aspects of practice.

I need to practice up on my innerweb sarcasm skills. I'm very aware of what goes on a D1 football team's scout team - at least from a 1970's team.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

If Sims plays the entire spring and fall as Bback, he is going to stay there unless Vad completely disappoints. He is NOT going to switch back to QB just to salvage Vad's redshirt.

I and most every reasonable poster on here disagrees with you on this. First off, Sims won't move back to qb to "salvage Vad's redshirt," he'll move back because he'll give us a better chance to win. He's a third year player with lots of practice/film/meeting time invested in qb. Like Legal said, he's not gonna forget everything he's learned about playing qb overnight.

Secondly, you're being extremely unfair to Vad to say Sims "is going to stay there (Bback) unless Vad completely disappoints." If Vad doesn't make the 2 deep at qb, he'll be the scout team qb. He won't get a lot of reps in our offense from there. If that happens, its not a major disappointment, except for you, maybe.