Would you rather?

[gtrower]

If we figure out coordinators then CGC could do okay here. 7-5 would show remarkable improvement with the coordinators and make me happy for the time being.

5-7 or 3-9 would have started to make me think about things though. 5-7 in year 4 would be an abject failure. But he’s probably set the bar low enough these first 3 seasons to trick some people into thinking that it’s a good thing. And that would worry me that T-Stan would do something stupid like an extension to keep 4 years on the contract for recruiting purposes.

 

[QuadF]

If you reject the premise of one of the hypothetical situations and the outcomes from it then your opinion in this poll isn't really relevant. In fact the positive hypothetical here already breaks your prediction. So why are you here?

I'm not rejecting the premise, I'm just not getting caught in the romance of the fantasy. It seems that you've added your own premise that 7 wins means CGC will have miraculously learned how to coach in the off-season rather than blind luck.

Pretending that those who vote the less popular option as just wanting GT to lose is both stupid and dishonest. Keeping the worst coach in GT history means we lose more in the long run; a single season of being mediocre instead of terrible doesn't change that.

 

[cyptomcat]

7-5 is totally fine for Collins building a program here.

We won more than 7 games just 6 times in the last 20 years. Get to winning about 7 games for now, and then continue improving the program from there.

 

[ricejacket]

I'd take 7-5 and give him time to build off of that. The offensive hires are encouraging, the defense.....not so much. It'll be tough to get to 7 wins with the out of conference schedule and the cross over games with Clemson and FSU so if he can do it then he deserves another year. The last three years haven't given me much hope of this happening considering we haven't seen any improvement on the field and any evolution in in game coaching adjustments from Collins.

 

[cyptomcat]

I'd take 7-5 and give him time to build off of that. The offensive hires are encouraging, the defense.....not so much. It'll be tough to get to 7 wins with the out of conference schedule and the cross over games with Clemson and FSU so if he can do it then he deserves another year. The last three years haven't given me much hope of this happening considering we haven't seen any improvement on the field and any evolution in in game coaching adjustments from Collins.

Yeah, I don't think there is any confidence in this staff to do better than the 3 win normal, but we will see.

 

[QuadF]

Yeah, I don't think there is any confidence in this staff to do better than the 3 win normal, but we will see.

Acc is still down. Pitt will be worse. Doesnt Clemson lose some key guys?

I don't expect 6, but getting more than 3 wins is doable.

 

[gtchief]

I'm not rejecting the premise, I'm just not getting caught in the romance of the fantasy. It seems that you've added your own premise that 7 wins means CGC will have miraculously learned how to coach in the off-season rather than blind luck.

Pretending that those who vote the less popular option as just wanting GT to lose is both stupid and dishonest. Keeping the worst coach in GT history means we lose more in the long run; a single season of being mediocre instead of terrible doesn't change that.

“Not getting caught in the romance of the fantasy” means you don’t understand how the poll works. It’s an exercise in suspension of disbelief, from the beginning all the way to the end. Accepting a 7-5 outcome is possible to participate in the poll and then saying another or better can’t happen based on previous data points, including the hypothetical 7-5 one, is intellectual dishonesty. And no I didn’t guarantee future success or even status quo from the 7-5 outcome. Rejecting your premise that we are guaranteed to return to awful seasons after adding a mediocre one is not the same as guaranteeing future success.

7-5 mediocre season guarantees that Tech goes to a bowl. Could be a fluke, could be an inflection point. Who knows. The base outcome here is already positive. More wins and bowling again.

3-9 season guarantees the bowl drought continues. Awful record. But Collins is canned.

You've chosen a negative short term outcome as a means to an end because you don't think improvement is possible under Collins, when an improved option under him was on the table. How far would you be willing to go to guarantee Collins gets canned? You’re already willing to trade a marked improvement to 7-5 for it. How about a net neutral outcome: 7-5 into 7-5. Would you take 3-9 and 3-9 to get rid of Geoff with 7-5 and 7-5 on the table?

 

[Akinji07]

Vote in the poll.

Why didn’t you make this public so we can shame the traitors?

 

[GTWannaBee]

Acc is still down. Pitt will be worse. Doesnt Clemson lose some key guys?

I don't expect 6, but getting more than 3 wins is doable.

I think Tech is the only school that didn’t benefit much from the super senior Covid year. That was expected given the roster overhaul.

 

[gt2690b]

It would be kind of impressive if we managed to more than double our win total but not look like we are improving.

Some people just dont want to see the improvement

 

[Akinji07]

“Not getting caught in the romance of the fantasy” means you don’t understand how the poll works. It’s an exercise in suspension of disbelief, from the beginning all the way to the end. Accepting a 7-5 outcome is possible to participate in the poll and then saying another or better can’t happen based on previous data points, including the hypothetical 7-5 one, is intellectual dishonesty. And no I didn’t guarantee future success or even status quo from the 7-5 outcome. Rejecting your premise that we are guaranteed to return to awful seasons after adding a mediocre one is not the same as guaranteeing future success.

7-5 mediocre season guarantees that Tech goes to a bowl. Could be a fluke, could be an inflection point. Who knows. The base outcome here is already positive. More wins and bowling again.

3-9 season guarantees the bowl drought continues. Awful record. But Collins is canned.

You've chosen a negative short term outcome as a means to an end because you don't think improvement is possible under Collins, when an improved option under him was on the table. How far would you be willing to go to guarantee Collins gets canned? You’re already willing to trade a marked improvement to 7-5 for it. How about a net neutral outcome: 7-5 into 7-5. Would you take 3-9 and 3-9 to get rid of Geoff with 7-5 and 7-5 on the table?

Only Stingtalk will take a binary question like this/that or yes/no and then argue about how the question is too confusing or that it doesn’t fit their narrative. Like the approval thread question, I had to explain 6 times what “Do you approve of the head coach performance, Yes or No?” means.

 

[coit]

Why didn’t you make this public so we can shame the traitors?

I wanted to get an honest accounting. I figured if public people would either not vote or vote differently.

 

[QuadF]

“Not getting caught in the romance of the fantasy” means you don’t understand how the poll works. It’s an exercise in suspension of disbelief, from the beginning all the way to the end. Accepting a 7-5 outcome is possible to participate in the poll and then saying another or better can’t happen based on previous data points, including the hypothetical 7-5 one, is intellectual dishonesty. And no I didn’t guarantee future success or even status quo from the 7-5 outcome. Rejecting your premise that we are guaranteed to return to awful seasons after adding a mediocre one is not the same as guaranteeing future success.

7-5 mediocre season guarantees that Tech goes to a bowl. Could be a fluke, could be an inflection point. Who knows. The base outcome here is already positive. More wins and bowling again.

3-9 season guarantees the bowl drought continues. Awful record. But Collins is canned.

You've chosen a negative short term outcome as a means to an end because you don't think improvement is possible under Collins, when an improved option under him was on the table. How far would you be willing to go to guarantee Collins gets canned? You’re already willing to trade a marked improvement to 7-5 for it. How about a net neutral outcome: 7-5 into 7-5. Would you take 3-9 and 3-9 to get rid of Geoff with 7-5 and 7-5 on the table?

I agree that the base outcome is a positive. The premise isn't that it's a guarantee that we return to 3 wins but that it's far more likely that 7-5 is the high mark for Collins as opposed to a new trend.

It looks like we're in agreement that the poll is short term loss/gain vs potential long term loss/gain. My primary issue was with you characterizing the short term vs long term trade-off as one where those who see the valuation & risk differently as not true fans.

I agree that 2 7 win seasons is an interesting trade-off. The main issue I see is if you keep him after the second 7 win season, are we forced into giving him a contract extension because of recruiting? Are you comfortable extending a coach whose high water mark is 7 wins?

 

[GTsapper]

Pole fail. I'd rather see Tech go 15-0, beat Ugag for the second time in the Natty, Collins be fired anyway, and Kirby lose his job and become a door greeter at Wal-Mart. That should be an option.

 

[BuzzinWreck78]

A better poll would have been to select the number of wins that must occur before he's offered an additional season
For me the baseline has already been set in the Zelnak/Garrett interview wth AJC at a minimum of 8 wins.

AJC Interview with Big Donors - good read

Before Georgia Tech began its 2021 season, Steve Zelnak and Gregg Garrett shared optimism about the Yellow Jackets’ season ahead. Their perspective was worth listening to for at least a few reasons. Both are Golden Jackets, the highest honor given to athletic-department donors, supporters whose...

stingtalk.com

 

[coit]

A better poll would have been to select the number of wins that must occur before he's offered an additional season
For me the baseline has already been set in the Zelnak/Garrett interview wth AJC at a minimum of 8 wins.

AJC Interview with Big Donors - good read

Before Georgia Tech began its 2021 season, Steve Zelnak and Gregg Garrett shared optimism about the Yellow Jackets’ season ahead. Their perspective was worth listening to for at least a few reasons. Both are Golden Jackets, the highest honor given to athletic-department donors, supporters whose...

stingtalk.com

I like my pole just fine. It was intended to show that some people hope that GT fails just because they don’t like the coach. But, only a small fraction of the fanbase have this opinion.

Unfortunately here, the 10% are 5x more vocal than the 90%.

 

[Nehru Jacket]

I like my pole just fine. It was intended to show that some people hope that GT fails just because they don’t like the coach. But, only a small fraction of the fanbase have this opinion.

Unfortunately here, the 10% are 5x more vocal than the 90%.

That is usually true in sports, politics and a lot of things.

 

[ricejacket]

I like my pole just fine. It was intended to show that some people hope that GT fails just because they don’t like the coach. But, only a small fraction of the fanbase have this opinion.

Unfortunately here, the 10% are 5x more vocal than the 90%.

I don’t want another 3 win season but I also don’t think Collins is the guy and I want him gone. If he can pull off a 7 win season I’ll be glad to eat all the crow.

 

[gtchief]

I agree that the base outcome is a positive. The premise isn't that it's a guarantee that we return to 3 wins but that it's far more likely that 7-5 is the high mark for Collins as opposed to a new trend.

Your argument is "x is most likely his high mark because it deviates from the start of a small sample set", never mind the fact that it would be the most recent data point in a timeline. Reducing a multivariable equation to a law of averages based on four data points, one of which significantly diverges, is simply wishful thinking on your part.

It looks like we're in agreement that the poll is short term loss/gain vs potential long term loss/gain. My primary issue was with you characterizing the short term vs long term trade-off as one where those who see the valuation & risk differently as not true fans.

You want to take nine losses since that is the requisite amount to fire Collins. You have a very large debt in the buyout, and large risk in stability. I want to take seven wins to go to a bowl game for an opportunity at eight wins, which could provide some stability and momentum. There is very little risk for me as the contract does not need to be extended yet. We are not the same.

I agree that 2 7 win seasons is an interesting trade-off. The main issue I see is if you keep him after the second 7 win season, are we forced into giving him a contract extension because of recruiting? Are you comfortable extending a coach whose high water mark is 7 wins?

I would have to take many things into account including who we beat, the margins in the losses, who started which games, and recruiting.

 

[ScionOfSouthland]

I want CGC to succeed, I just don’t have confidence he can. I am starting to entertain a replacement conspiracy and wonder if maybe that is why Key, Long, and now Weinke are here together.