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QuadF said:
From another thread
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FEI was a stat we all loved under CPJ, but sadly it didn’t really portray what the offense actually looked like. Here’s Tech’s scoring offense ranking against FBS schools (using FBS only because that is what the site provides):

2018: 27th at 33.0 ppg
2017: 69th at 27.2 ppg
2016: 66th at 27.7 ppg
2015: 79th at 25.6 ppg
2014: 12th at 37.8 ppg
 
gtchief said:
Nope, which is why I'm glad the recruiting albatross known as the 3O is gone
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So who do you think we are going to get to outrecruit our competition? Particularly UGA and Clemson, since that's who you idiots like to point to as why you think PJ sucked, despite the fact that they are kicking everyone's ass. Geoff is supposed to be an elite recruiter, and his recruiting classes were 5th, 11th, and 8th in the ACC. Who are you expecting to hire that will get us to even top 3 in the ACC? Oh and then they also have to be competent at coaching to actually use that talent, which Geoff is also clearly not.
 
OmnipoTech said:
So who do you think we are going to get to outrecruit our competition? Particularly UGA and Clemson, since that's who you idiots like to point to as why you think PJ sucked, despite the fact that they are kicking everyone's ass. Geoff is supposed to be an elite recruiter, and his recruiting classes were 5th, 11th, and 8th in the ACC. Who are you expecting to hire that will get us to even top 3 in the ACC? Oh and then they also have to be competent at coaching to actually use that talent, which Geoff is also clearly not.
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I never said we had to out-recruit them, but we have to close the gap. That was the ultimate death of the option. Maybe with NIL we could've paid players to come here and things would've worked out.

We have recruited around 5-6th in the ACC in average recruit ranking, in spite of abysmal results on the field. Your weighted class rankings based on 20 recruits or whatever don't really matter. Our option holdovers, who should be the upperclassmen starters on a typical team, are transferring down to G5's and FCS's. That includes the former starting QB for half our games last year.

Who cares about Geoff? If things suck this year he's probably gone. Hate him all you want :dunno: Time will tell for him but the time for the option has passed. Just please quit being a whiny little bitch in every thread with the rest of your lot
 
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gtchief said:
I never said we had to out-recruit them, but we have to close the gap. That was the ultimate death of the option. Maybe with NIL we could've paid players to come here and things would've worked out.

We have recruited around 5-6th in the ACC in average recruit ranking, in spite of abysmal results on the field. Your weighted class rankings based on 20 recruits or whatever don't really matter. Our option holdovers, who should be the upperclassmen starters on a typical team, are transferring down to G5's and FCS's. That includes the former starting QB for half our games last year.

Who cares about Geoff? If things suck this year he's probably gone. Hate him all you want :dunno: Time will tell for him but the time for the option has passed. Just please quit being a whiny little bitch in every thread with the rest of your lot
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So your plan is to still get less talented players than our competitors, run the same thing they are running, and what? Hope magic fairy dust brings us wins?

I'll ask again, who are you thinking we can hire that will get us to the top 3 in recruiting in the ACC? Even using average recruit ranking, 5-6 is not closing the gap, especially when we are only signing 10-15 guys out of HS a year and a bunch of transfers that didn't see the field at their former school.
 
OmnipoTech said:
So your plan is to still get less talented players than our competitors, run the same thing they are running, and what? Hope magic fairy dust brings us wins?

I'll ask again, who are you thinking we can hire that will get us to the top 3 in recruiting in the ACC? Even using average recruit ranking, 5-6 is not closing the gap, especially when we are only signing 10-15 guys out of HS a year and a bunch of transfers that didn't see the field at their former school.
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Overall we will still get less talented players, but if we can pull in more Calvins, Choices, Dwyers, Joe Hams, Shaq Masons, or even Butkers more often then it will increase our odds drastically. 2014 had NFL talent in a couple spots that were huge for us. Hell all it took for UG to abuse us this year was a TE. Gibbs was one of those but the rest of the pieces aren't there.

Going away from the option doesn't necessarily mean we have to run the same thing they do, but besides running backs in Leach's air raid I don't know of any other system with a negative stigma around it like the option that hurt recruiting.
 
gtchief said:
Overall we will still get less talented players, but if we can pull in more Calvins, Choices, Dwyers, Joe Hams, Shaq Masons, or even Butkers more often then it will increase our odds drastically. 2014 had NFL talent in a couple spots that were huge for us. Hell all it took for UG to abuse us this year was a TE. Gibbs was one of those but the rest of the pieces aren't there.
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Not only is this without a doubt the worst plan I've ever heard, to just hope we get more major difference makers than we have at any time in the past 30 years, but then you disparage TO recruiting while simultaneously including two players recruited during the TO years as the kind of guys you want.
 
OmnipoTech said:
Not only is this without a doubt the worst plan I've ever heard, to just hope we get more major difference makers than we have at any time in the past 30 years, but then you disparage TO recruiting while simultaneously including two players recruited during the TO years as the kind of guys you want.
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That's why you're stuck in your loser mentality. You think some of our better players over the years can only be special occurrences. I don't give a öööö what system our NFL talent played in which is why I listed them. The issue with the TO was they became fewer and far between.
 
GTWannaBee said:
FEI was a stat we all loved under CPJ, but sadly it didn’t really portray what the offense actually looked like. Here’s Tech’s scoring offense ranking against FBS schools (using FBS only because that is what the site provides):

2018: 27th at 33.0 ppg
2017: 69th at 27.2 ppg
2016: 66th at 27.7 ppg
2015: 79th at 25.6 ppg
2014: 12th at 37.8 ppg
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Is scoring offense adjusted for SoS? I didnt think it was. Fei is, which I think js more useful as playing a weak acc like Collins has would make him look better than he is.
 
gtchief said:
That's why you're stuck in your loser mentality. You think some of our better players over the years can only be special occurrences. I don't give a öööö what system our NFL talent played in which is why I listed them. The issue with the TO was they became fewer and far between.
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It comes back to how much you believe the problem with recruiting was the option vs being bottom 20% of the acc in recruiting budget, bottom half in coaching budget, small stadium, fewer majors to hide athletes....

I think we're going to have to do something a bit different regardless of what schemes we run. It was a bit before my time, but as I understand a big part of what made friedgen so good is that he was an innovator as opposed to running what everyone else ran.
 
gtchief said:
That's why you're stuck in your loser mentality. You think some of our better players over the years can only be special occurrences. I don't give a öööö what system our NFL talent played in which is why I listed them. The issue with the TO was they became fewer and far between.
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Lol ok. The delusional guy with no plan hoping to "get lucky" thinks others with realistic understanding of our situation have the loser mentality.

If we had so many special players prior to the TO, why didn't we get more wins out of them? O'leary had 1 double digit win season with a heisman runner up at qb - how often do you think we can pickup one of those? Calvin and Choice's best season was 9 wins, the rest were 7 win mediocre seasons. How often do you think we can recruit the best receiver to play the game?
 
OmnipoTech said:
Lol ok. The delusional guy with no plan hoping to "get lucky" thinks others with realistic understanding of our situation have the loser mentality.

If we had so many special players prior to the TO, why didn't we get more wins out of them? O'leary had 1 double digit win season with a heisman runner up at qb - how often do you think we can pickup one of those? Calvin and Choice's best season was 9 wins, the rest were 7 win mediocre seasons. How often do you think we can recruit the best receiver to play the game?
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If our talent didn't drop under CPJ, why was he the coach that broke our decades long bowl streak? Why did we go from having players in the draft every year to having less NFL talent than Toledo?

It's revisionist history to say that everything was peachy under CPJ. Attendance and GameDay atmosphere declined over his tenure and a lot of our fans wanted to move on because the program had gone stale. He did us a favor by retiring and we botched the hire, but remember that it was widely acknowledged at CPJ’s hire that whenever he left there was going to be a rough period to transition the program back.

My problem is this notion that going back to the triple option is a path to success. CPJ was the best at it and we will never bring in a coach who exceeds his accomplishments running the same offense. That will only prove to kill our program further. We chose our path, we have no choice but to see it thru. Our timing could not be worse with the NIL and transfer portal as it has only made the job more difficult.
 
OmnipoTech said:
Lol ok. The delusional guy with no plan hoping to "get lucky" thinks others with realistic understanding of our situation have the loser mentality.

If we had so many special players prior to the TO, why didn't we get more wins out of them? O'leary had 1 double digit win season with a heisman runner up at qb - how often do you think we can pickup one of those? Calvin and Choice's best season was 9 wins, the rest were 7 win mediocre seasons. How often do you think we can recruit the best receiver to play the game?
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It's neither my job nor desire to structure a plan for you, nor did I commit to doing so. You continue to put certain players on a pedestal and call it "lucky". But yes, I think recruiting top in-state talent like Gibbs should resume. Calvin wouldn't have come here under the 3O. Why was the option coach the only one who didn't get a "lucky" tier recruit?

You're asking why, in the era of an 11 game season, we had fewer double digit wins? Feel free to add an extra cupcake W to O'Leary's records and see how the numbers shake out.
 
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Does anyone here want to take a bet that Tech will not run the 3O as it's base offense anytime in the next 20 years? I'll put $1000 on it. I'm 38, I'll be around that long lord willing.
Forget the merits of the system, good and bad, it's not coming back. I seriously do not understand the never ending posts on it.
 
BainbridgeJacket said:
If our talent didn't drop under CPJ, why was he the coach that broke our decades long bowl streak? Why did we go from having players in the draft every year to having less NFL talent than Toledo?
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Because half of our starters were injured. We also played most of those games down to the wire and had a massive upset over fsu. It's not like there was a discipline or scheme issue.

It's revisionist history to say that everything was peachy under CPJ. Attendance and GameDay atmosphere declined over his tenure and a lot of our fans wanted to move on because the program had gone stale. He did us a favor by retiring and we botched the hire, but remember that it was widely acknowledged at CPJ’s hire that whenever he left there was going to be a rough period to transition the program back.
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I don't think anyone is suggesting it was all peachy under cpj or that we didn't need a change. I don't think even the most ardent option fans have argued this, so why is this coming up as a counter argument?

My problem is this notion that going back to the triple option is a path to success. CPJ was the best at it and we will never bring in a coach who exceeds his accomplishments running the same offense. That will only prove to kill our program further. We chose our path, we have no choice but to see it thru. Our timing could not be worse with the NIL and transfer portal as it has only made the job more difficult.
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im not sure why there's a belief that the concepts for that offense are at end of life and cannot be interated/innovated on further by someone else. This seems like a fatalist assumption not backed up by data - The miracle that is army shoudnt be ignored. Not that we have to go back to the option, but the argument you're making continues to seem like a "tribal knowledge" conclusion in search of evidence.

I'll grant that the cpk tree is pretty slim if we wanted to go back to the option and probably end up going with a version of the Oregon or Meyers offense.
 
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gtchief said:
That's why you're stuck in your loser mentality. You think some of our better players over the years can only be special occurrences. I don't give a öööö what system our NFL talent played in which is why I listed them. The issue with the TO was they became fewer and far between.
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The problem is that you're trying to have it both ways by saying we won't out recruit most opponents but saying we need more Heisman runner ups and guys who won position awards.
 
BainbridgeJacket said:
If our talent didn't drop under CPJ, why was he the coach that broke our decades long bowl streak? Why did we go from having players in the draft every year to having less NFL talent than Toledo?

It's revisionist history to say that everything was peachy under CPJ. Attendance and GameDay atmosphere declined over his tenure and a lot of our fans wanted to move on because the program had gone stale. He did us a favor by retiring and we botched the hire, but remember that it was widely acknowledged at CPJ’s hire that whenever he left there was going to be a rough period to transition the program back.

My problem is this notion that going back to the triple option is a path to success. CPJ was the best at it and we will never bring in a coach who exceeds his accomplishments running the same offense. That will only prove to kill our program further. We chose our path, we have no choice but to see it thru. Our timing could not be worse with the NIL and transfer portal as it has only made the job more difficult.
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You mean in 2015, when we were absolutely wrecked by injuries yet still managed to beat an undefeated top 10 FSU and keep nearly every game within one score? The year that was bookmarked on either end by 11 wins and 9 wins? Oh and you know who last missed a bowl before him? O'Leary, the guy everyone wants to compare him to.

I don't think I or anyone else has ever said everything was just peachy under CPJ. Where you got that from is anyone's guess.

Neither attendance nor gameday atmosphere are the head coach's job, his job is to win football games.

You are right that CPJ WAS the best at it, the key word being WAS. He didn't adapt the offense to changing rules and styles of play, something that other TO coaches have done. This idea that no other TO coach can ever be as good as CPJ so there's no point in trying is absurd.
 
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gtchief said:
It's neither my job nor desire to structure a plan for you, nor did I commit to doing so. You continue to put certain players on a pedestal and call it "lucky". But yes, I think recruiting top in-state talent like Gibbs should resume. Calvin wouldn't have come here under the 3O. Why was the option coach the only one who didn't get a "lucky" tier recruit?

You're asking why, in the era of an 11 game season, we had fewer double digit wins? Feel free to add an extra cupcake W to O'Leary's records and see how the numbers shake out.
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I have never said we shouldn't try to recruit top talent, I'm saying you want to put all our eggs in that basket and it's incredibly foolish.

Shaq Mason was a 2/3 star recruit with no other offers besides Tech. He was short for a prototypical lineman. He was a diamond in the rough, not someone that would be wanted by you if you didn't know he would have turned into the amazing player he did. We've gotten a lot of diamonds in the rough over the years who were lowly rated and hardly evaluated.
 
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