Official argue about the old coach thread

wesleyd21 said:
After Pepper Rodgers stopped running the option, GT absolutely sucked for a few years too. I think we lost 69-14 to Notre Dame (who had some guy named Joe Montana playing QB).

The only thing that bothers me on here is people acting like 3 wins is “the new norm”. No. It’s always going to be like that when you stop running the triple option. I don’t care what decade you’re playing in.

Geoff Collins is a proven recruiter. He’s getting the job done there. Only things I don’t like are the Money Down, push ups on the sideline, and that exchange he had with Narduzzi after the Pitt game last year.

We still have some 3O guys playing on OL who are not good. The transfers help a little but they’re only in the system for one season. Transitioning out of a 11 year triple option program is a monumental task at the P5 level.

Many on here mock CGC for repeatedly saying “biggest transition in history”. However, he’s not wrong. I suppose “it is what it is”.
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It's fair to say i'm being too harsh by saying it's the new norm. I accept that. I accepted that there would be a transition period and it would be a rough one, but i'm most concerned by what seems to be improvement that's very slow. By year 3, the 'transition' should be mostly done, but it sounds like some are defending another year or 2 of transition.

Collins is a proven recruiter, but he's not a proven coach. I don't care how he recruits or schemes if he can't win. What i see on the field concerns me greatly.
 
Techbert said:
He did well against many schools, until they figured him out. What if he stayed 3 more years? What would be his record against Duke these last 3 years? Statistically, .333, and I think with the roster he left he would be lucky to get that one win.
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Do you realize how awful Duke has been the past few years? If CPJ stays he wins at least 2 of the past 3 if not all 3.
 
Techbert said:
JT5 had one good year and averaged 6 wins his other two years. You pointed that out to claim 2014 was not an anomaly (?!?). Why is he your gold standard based on one anomalous year?
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QuadF said:
When said 3 win season includes a win over a top-10 team and is an outlier is sandwiched between 2 really good seasons (with wins over uga), it seems to settle for me whether there's a persistent or temporary issue.

When 3 wins becomes the new normal, that would indicate a major problem. Why is this not obvious?
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Normal after 2014 was a below 500 conference result with all the coach's players, followed by a rebuild with a coach whose players are freshmen or sophs.

Three wins is not the new normal. It is the Suck we inevitably get when you hire a 3O coach in modern football and you have to eventually replace him, and we are lucky to have 6 wins in a bit less than two seasons given what he inherited.

The New Normal is what we will get when we have a full team of players brought in by a great recruiter. It will not be 3 wins.
 
Random facts from CPJ's time at Tech:

- Johnson faced 17 coaches in their first year with their program (1.5 per year). He was 13-4 against those coaches.
- Johnson faced 24 coaches in their last year with their program (2.2 per year). He was 19-5 against those coaches.

- Against coaches in the middle of their tenures with their school Johnson was 51-52.
 
knoxjacket said:
Random facts from CPJ's time at Tech:

- Johnson faced 17 coaches in their first year with their program (1.5 per year). He was 13-4 against those coaches.
- Johnson faced 24 coaches in their last year with their program (2.2 per year). He was 19-5 against those coaches.

- Against coaches in the middle of their tenures with their school Johnson was 51-52.
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I would kind of expect this. Coaches coming in are going to be disproportionately on bad teams. Same goes for coaches going out.
 
Techbert said:
Normal after 2014 was a below 500 conference result with all the coach's players, followed by a rebuild with a coach whose players are freshmen or sophs.

Three wins is not the new normal. It is the Suck we inevitably get when you hire a 3O coach in modern football and you have to eventually replace him, and we are lucky to have 6 wins in a bit less than two seasons given what he inherited.

The New Normal is what we will get when we have a full team of players brought in by a great recruiter. It will not be 3 wins.
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To be fair, post 2014 included Clemson's best years and some of uga's best years
 
Jacketeer said:
Do you realize how awful Duke has been the past few years? If CPJ stays he wins at least 2 of the past 3 if not all 3.
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The "Duke was a world-beater during PJ's time!" narrative is amusing. Duck Fuke - you should never lose to them and especially not get blown out by them, which was occurring at the end, both home & away.
 
The head man in charge now can flat out recruit. That is literally HALF the equation to a great program.

Key and Patenaude have been very disappointing (and this needs to be addressed). Thacker simply doesn’t have the bodies on DL…but guess what…we’ve got a couple of 4* DT’s coming in which could be a major program changer. When’s the last time we landed guys like that?

I just don’t think you get rid of a head coach who has half of the problems solved already. We’ve got something to work with here.
 
wesleyd21 said:
The head man in charge now can flat out recruit. That is literally HALF the equation to a great program.

Key and Patenaude have been very disappointing (and this needs to be addressed). Thacker simply doesn’t have the bodies on DL…but guess what…we’ve got a couple of 4* DT’s coming in which could be a major program changer. When’s the last time we landed guys like that?

I just don’t think you get rid of a head coach who has half of the problems solved already. We’ve got something to work with here.
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His oldest recruits have only been here a year and a half and only one spring training.
 
WracerX said:
I would kind of expect this. Coaches coming in are going to be disproportionately on bad teams. Same goes for coaches going out.
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The surprising thing is the volume of guys in their last year not the record.

Gailey for comparison:
- faced 9 coaches in their first year (1.5 per year). He was 6-3 against them.
- faced 5 coaches in their last year (.7 per year). He was 5-0 against them.

33-29 against coaches in that in between state.

Johnson was facing twice as many teams in that transitional state a year as Gailey did before him.
 
QuadF said:
When said 3 win season includes a win over a top-10 team and is an outlier is sandwiched between 2 really good seasons (with wins over uga), it seems to settle for me whether there's a persistent or temporary issue.

When 3 wins becomes the new normal, that would indicate a major problem. Why is this not obvious?
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Because it should not happen in Year 8 of a coach's tenure. Also '17 and '18 are what would be "persistent" WRT COFH with their new regime.

As far as Collins goes here's how I would summarize his three years to date:

Year 1 (more accurately Year 0 as far as recruiting) proved that the offensive personnel was not good enough to beat an FCS squad without obscenely curated coaching towards the previous style, and even that is an assumption given a new QB.

Year 2 was a 10-game all-conf season with no buy game and no spring practice for a Tr-F QB/RB duo. Gibbs gets hurt.

Year 3 faces stacked rosters of super seniors and we're already at 3 wins including a "Top 25" win, with our starting QB out for half of our games. The lines with our super seniors get pushed around vs NIU and the option-recruited QB can't manage a score against a beatable "Top 10" Clemson.
 
Techbert said:
To be fair, they are as good or better during Collins first two seasons.
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I'm failing to see your point. The 2015 team was clearly an anomaly and still included a top-10 win, so I don't know how much we should say that it was part of a "new normal" unless you're cherry-picking to support a point. The 2017 team is a better case, but even so that team had losses to 3 top-11 opponents and 1 more ranked team. The duke and uva losses that year hurt, but i think we should acknowledge that opponent quality has changed.

Edit:

The last 3 years of cpj were:
7 win average
Just over 500 in conference
1-2 vs uga
500 in bowls

That isn't great, but it's not bad. Can Collins reach even that in the next few years?
 
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GTRules said:
This is a hilarious thread, with many people using the Pee Wee Herman argument.
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Some of us actually want to do better than CPJ or Chan or Ross or Curry.

I really think O'Leary would have gotten us there. It is a damn shame Notre Dame ööööed us over by hiring him away.
 
gtchief said:
Because it should not happen in Year 8 of a coach's tenure. Also '17 and '18 are what would be "persistent" WRT COFH with their new regime.
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Who said it should happen? I'm just explaining why i'm less concerned about an abberation than back-to-back 3 win seasons.

[qoute]
Year 3 faces stacked rosters of super seniors and we're already at 3 wins including a "Top 25" win, with our starting QB out for half of our games. The lines with our super seniors get pushed around vs NIU and the option-recruited QB can't manage a score against a beatable "Top 10" Clemson.
[/QUOTE]

An interesting perspective as:
  • uga didn't score an offensive touchdown against clemson either
  • the main benefit of sims over yates is his running ability (as sims keeps throwing ints) so i don't see what "option recruited" has to do with it
  • the only top-25 win is against a team that's now 4-3
 
wesleyd21 said:
After Pepper Rodgers stopped running the option, GT absolutely sucked for a few years too. I think we lost 69-14 to Notre Dame (who had some guy named Joe Montana playing QB).

The only thing that bothers me on here is people acting like 3 wins is “the new norm”. No. It’s always going to be like that when you stop running the triple option. I don’t care what decade you’re playing in.

Geoff Collins is a proven recruiter. He’s getting the job done there. Only things I don’t like are the Money Down, push ups on the sideline, and that exchange he had with Narduzzi after the Pitt game last year.

We still have some 3O guys playing on OL who are not good. The transfers help a little but they’re only in the system for one season. Transitioning out of a 11 year triple option program is a monumental task at the P5 level.

Many on here mock CGC for repeatedly saying “biggest transition in history”. However, he’s not wrong. I suppose “it is what it is”.
Click to expand...
And, don't forget, even our OL grad transfers weren't top tier recruits out of HS. They are good and serviceable, but one took a year off from football. We just really need to build our lines on both sides.
 
wesleyd21 said:
After Pepper Rodgers stopped running the option, GT absolutely sucked for a few years too. I think we lost 69-14 to Notre Dame (who had some guy named Joe Montana playing QB).

The only thing that bothers me on here is people acting like 3 wins is “the new norm”. No. It’s always going to be like that when you stop running the triple option. I don’t care what decade you’re playing in.

Geoff Collins is a proven recruiter. He’s getting the job done there. Only things I don’t like are the Money Down, push ups on the sideline, and that exchange he had with Narduzzi after the Pitt game last year.

We still have some 3O guys playing on OL who are not good. The transfers help a little but they’re only in the system for one season. Transitioning out of a 11 year triple option program is a monumental task at the P5 level.

Many on here mock CGC for repeatedly saying “biggest transition in history”. However, he’s not wrong. I suppose “it is what it is”.
Click to expand...

Curry was 2-19-1 his first two years with what Pepper left him from the wishbone.
 
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