A few telling stats

[knoxjacket]

is this from 2018?

It’s a result of the same crappy recruiting staff as 2018.

 

[TechAKnee]

Here’s a few stats:

against UNC - 202 yards of total offense, 6 points
against Pitt - 171 yards of total offense, 10 points
against Tech - 357 yards of total offense, 37 points

 

[gnats67]

The penalties are the most telling to me. Between last year and this year, there is a very clear pattern of needless penalties due to players being undisciplined or disorganized.

I think it's fair to assume that the sloppiness and lack of preparation that manifests itself in those penalties is pervasive and impacts all three phases of the game in ways beyond penalties.

The simple fact is that we have been a poorly coached team for every game of CGC's tenure. I'm not ready to give up on him, but that's by far the most concerning thing to me. Way more concerning than players not having talent.

CGC is good at selling a culture and pretty terrible at instilling discipline. Maybe cuz he's mostly been an assistant? You're not going to win consistently or even establish much culture without discipline.

 

[TampaBayJacket]

We. Lost. To. Syracuse. Mike Leach’s team has put up 500+ passing yards and has the defending champs on the ropes. Don’t tell me a good coach can’t teach his players a new system in TWO YEARS when he did it in one game. I’m tired of hearing the scheme switch as an excuse when we’re losing to inferior opponents.

I know we are both dug in on this argument so its pointless to go back and forth (although I have open mind if presented with strong evidence), but Mike Leach's players >> our players. Have you seen all the first round picks coming out of Miss State the past several years? Have you seen their recruiting rankings? Do you honestly think Leach could come in here and throw the ball around with this offensive line blocking for any QB. Please, by all means, argue how he could do this.

 

[johncu]

I know we are both dug in on this argument so its pointless to go back and forth (although I have open mind if presented with strong evidence), but Mike Leach's players >> our players. Have you seen all the first round picks coming out of Miss State the past several years? Have you seen their recruiting rankings? Do you honestly think Leach could come in here and throw the ball around with this offensive line blocking for any QB. Please, by all means, argue how he could do this.

I have seen Miss St recruiting rankings, and it’s obvious that LSU is a much more talented team. Didn’t stop Leach from steamrolling them and shattering the SEC passing record in his first game.

Meanwhile we lost to a team with less talent than us. I’m not calling for CGC’s job. He’s got 2 more years minimum. All I’m saying is I don’t want to hear the 3O excuse anymore. CPJ installed a brand new offense and had it humming in Year 1, and Leach has clearly done the same thing. That’s what good coaches do. They might get out-talented, but they don’t get 15 penalties and out coached in losses to inferior teams.

 

[vapspwi]

I have seen Miss St recruiting rankings, and it’s obvious that LSU is a much more talented team. Didn’t stop Leach from steamrolling them and shattering the SEC passing record in his first game.

Meanwhile we lost to a team with less talent than us. I’m not calling for CGC’s job. He’s got 2 more years minimum. All I’m saying is I don’t want to hear the 3O excuse anymore. CPJ installed a brand new offense and had it humming in Year 1, and Leach has clearly done the same thing. That’s what good coaches do. They might get out-talented, but they don’t get 15 penalties and out coached in losses to inferior teams.

That’s the biggest frustration to me. I get the arguments about talent level and “biggest transition” and all that. We can’t control that stuff. But we’re not controlling that stuff that we CAN control - penalties (and related execution errors) and stuff that should be mostly automatic like kicking extra points and at least giving the appearance of valuing the football.

As has already been said, the best players in the world won’t matter if we can’t take care of fundamentals.

JRjr

 

[johncu]

That’s the biggest frustration to me. I get the arguments about talent level and “biggest transition” and all that. We can’t control that stuff. But we’re not controlling that stuff that we CAN control - penalties (and related execution errors) and stuff that should be mostly automatic like kicking extra points and at least giving the appearance of valuing the football.

As has already been said, the best players in the world won’t matter if we can’t take care of fundamentals.

JRjr

Exactly. And that’s coaching - pure and simple. Collins said it himself after the game.

 

[JJacket]

I have seen Miss St recruiting rankings, and it’s obvious that LSU is a much more talented team. Didn’t stop Leach from steamrolling them and shattering the SEC passing record in his first game.

Meanwhile we lost to a team with less talent than us. I’m not calling for CGC’s job. He’s got 2 more years minimum. All I’m saying is I don’t want to hear the 3O excuse anymore. CPJ installed a brand new offense and had it humming in Year 1, and Leach has clearly done the same thing. That’s what good coaches do. They might get out-talented, but they don’t get 15 penalties and out coached in losses to inferior teams.

LSU's QB is slow and overthrew or bounce passed several throws. Out of bounds is not a WR, neither is the ground 10 feet in front of a WR. If LSU has Burrows, they win. As it is, Mississippi State got a good transfer QB and he was accurate

 

[TampaBayJacket]

I have seen Miss St recruiting rankings, and it’s obvious that LSU is a much more talented team. Didn’t stop Leach from steamrolling them and shattering the SEC passing record in his first game.

Meanwhile we lost to a team with less talent than us. I’m not calling for CGC’s job. He’s got 2 more years minimum. All I’m saying is I don’t want to hear the 3O excuse anymore. CPJ installed a brand new offense and had it humming in Year 1, and Leach has clearly done the same thing. That’s what good coaches do. They might get out-talented, but they don’t get 15 penalties and out coached in losses to inferior teams.

Here's my point. MSU and our situations are incomparable. You say to stop using the triple option excuse but the TO *is* the reason. You cant just undo a decade of going all-in on the triple option compared to bringing in a great offensive coach to switch from a spread offense to an air raid offense like MSU. The triple option is way more than just your low recruiting rankings. It's the type of athletes and linemen you bring in. You have receivers who havent run route trees since HS. You have linemen that only your FBS team recruited because they lack certain standard physical qualities needed in a passing offense (long arms, athletic tuck, etc). You entire team size is way below standards. These things cant be undone in a year or even two. It takes a minimum of 3-4 years to get the linemen grown and developed fully. That's the longest pole in this process and the most limiting factor. You can see we have improved the skill position players greatly but that is also the easiest to fix. Just gotta wait on those linemen to eat and lift.

My other point. You're also not wrong with what you say. There are serious things that can be fixed on this team right now. I understand your frustration but I am just trying to say you will never get the full picture of this staff until year four+.

 

[Chattanooga Jacket]

Here’s a few stats:

against UNC - 202 yards of total offense, 6 points
against Pitt - 171 yards of total offense, 10 points
against Tech - 357 yards of total offense, 37 points

GT allowed more yards (almost)) and points than UNC and Pitt combined.

 

[JJacket]

GT allowed more yards and points than UNC and Pitt combined.

Being a GT board, most of us can do math.
UNC is bigger and better than us right now, as is Pitt. Which of our LB's would start for either team? OL's? I love our team, but we have a lot of growth to do.

 

[johncu]

Here's my point. MSU and our situations are incomparable. You say to stop using the triple option excuse but the TO *is* the reason. You cant just undo a decade of going all-in on the triple option compared to bringing in a great offensive coach to switch from a spread offense to an air raid offense like MSU. The triple option is way more than just your low recruiting rankings. It's the type of athletes and linemen you bring in. You have receivers who havent run route trees since HS. You have linemen that only your FBS team recruited because they lack certain standard physical qualities needed in a passing offense (long arms, athletic tuck, etc). You entire team size is way below standards. These things cant be undone in a year or even two. It takes a minimum of 3-4 years to get the linemen grown and developed fully. That's the longest pole in this process and the most limiting factor. You can see we have improved the skill position players greatly but that is also the easiest to fix. Just gotta wait on those linemen to eat and lift.

My other point. You're also not wrong with what you say. There are serious things that can be fixed on this team right now. I understand your frustration but I am just trying to say you will never get the full picture of this staff until year four+.

Nothing you say is untrue. If we were talking about why Clemson blew us out, I’d be on board with your explanation. But we lost to Syracuse. They didn’t beat us because our OL are too small or because our guys are used to playing in a different offense. We beat ourselves because we didn’t know what we were doing. When we weren’t killing our own drives, it was obvious that we were the more talented team.

There are lots of reasons why we won’t be at our best for another year or two. But none of those reasons explain losing to a team that we are already more talented than. This is not a condemnation of Geoff Collins, only of the performance we saw yesterday. Now he’s got some time to regroup, and I think it will be telling to see what changes we make before Louisville.

 

[Tshirt Man]

Being a GT board, most of us can do math.
UNC is bigger and better than us right now, as is Pitt. Which of our LB's would start for either team? OL's? I love our team, but we have a lot of growth to do.

You're right but we didn't play Pitt or UNC. I'm pretty sure I saw pregame that we were bigger on both lines than Syracuse. We got bitch slapped because of coaching, not size or talent

 

[knoxjacket]

I have seen Miss St recruiting rankings, and it’s obvious that LSU is a much more talented team. Didn’t stop Leach from steamrolling them and shattering the SEC passing record in his first game.

Meanwhile we lost to a team with less talent than us. I’m not calling for CGC’s job. He’s got 2 more years minimum. All I’m saying is I don’t want to hear the 3O excuse anymore. CPJ installed a brand new offense and had it humming in Year 1, and Leach has clearly done the same thing. That’s what good coaches do. They might get out-talented, but they don’t get 15 penalties and out coached in losses to inferior teams.

no we did not lose to a team with less talent. we have the least talent in the ACC and maybe in the P5. Look at the last three drafts and watch the next 2.

We have a slow secondary, we have the absolute worst MLB in Division I and the other LB are only marginally better, our DL is decimated and was small, slow, and weak to begin with. Probably the worst P5 DL.

we have a patchwork OL of transfers who couldn’t hack it elsewhere, 3O leftovers, walkons, and true freshmen. Do you think guys like William Lay get playing time anywhere else? We have WR that were willing to sign with a 3O team cause no one else wanted them. Outside of Brown it seems like they are velcroed to the DBs. Some are easily covered by LBs. We have a long snapper playing tight end. We have a true freshman QB.

do you honestly think Dino Babers would have traded rosters with us?

 

[GTLiebs]

Here's my point. MSU and our situations are incomparable. You say to stop using the triple option excuse but the TO *is* the reason. You cant just undo a decade of going all-in on the triple option compared to bringing in a great offensive coach to switch from a spread offense to an air raid offense like MSU. The triple option is way more than just your low recruiting rankings. It's the type of athletes and linemen you bring in. You have receivers who havent run route trees since HS. You have linemen that only your FBS team recruited because they lack certain standard physical qualities needed in a passing offense (long arms, athletic tuck, etc). You entire team size is way below standards. These things cant be undone in a year or even two. It takes a minimum of 3-4 years to get the linemen grown and developed fully. That's the longest pole in this process and the most limiting factor. You can see we have improved the skill position players greatly but that is also the easiest to fix. Just gotta wait on those linemen to eat and lift.

To add on the offensive linemen, aside from the ones on the team before Collins hire being far off physically from what the offense wants, they also have learned a blocking scheme that basically doesn't translate to any other offense. When was the last time any of the linemen did zone blocking? From a scheme standpoint our entire offensive line outside the transfers are little better than sophomores at best and didn't really get much development time this offseason anyway.

 

[johncu]

no we did not lose to a team with less talent. we have the least talent in the ACC and maybe in the P5. Look at the last three drafts and watch the next 2.

We have a slow secondary, we have the absolute worst MLB in Division I and the other LB are only marginally better, our DL is decimated and was small, slow, and weak to begin with. Probably the worst P5 DL.

we have a patchwork OL of transfers who couldn’t hack it elsewhere, 3O leftovers, walkons, and true freshmen. Do you think guys like William Lay get playing time anywhere else? We have WR that were willing to sign with a 3O team cause no one else wanted them. Outside of Brown it seems like they are velcroed to the DBs. Some are easily covered by LBs. We have a long snapper playing tight end. We have a true freshman QB.

do you honestly think Dino Babers would have traded rosters with us?

Dude. No. People have repeated this lie enough that they think it’s true, but it’s not. Our OL was good enough that we rushed for nearly 300 yards at over 5 yards per carry. If we played disciplined football we would have won that game by double digits.

We have mediocre talent for an ACC team. Recruiting rankings back that up and have for years. AND EVEN IF WE DIDN’T, that has nothing to do with 15 penalties and a myriad of other self-inflicted harms. We lost because we weren’t prepared, plain and simple.

 

[knoxjacket]

Dude. No. People have repeated this lie enough that they think it’s true, but it’s not. Our OL was good enough that we rushed for nearly 300 yards at over 5 yards per carry. If we played disciplined football we would have won that game by double digits.

We have mediocre talent for an ACC team. Recruiting rankings back that up and have for years. AND EVEN IF WE DIDN’T, that has nothing to do with 15 penalties and a myriad of other self-inflicted harms. We lost because we weren’t prepared, plain and simple.

that OL also couldn’t keep our Qb from getting blown up on 3 step drops. Gibbs and Griffin were breaking tackles in the backfield on nearly every run.

read what other say about our talent. Look where our transfers end up. Watch the draft and free agent signings. This roster is garbage.

 

[Tshirt Man]

that OL also couldn’t keep our Qb from getting blown up on 3 step drops. Gibbs and Griffin were breaking tackles in the backfield on nearly every run.

read what other say about our talent. Look where our transfers end up. Watch the draft and free agent signings. This roster is garbage.

Even if our roster is garbage, we played Syracuse.
read what other say about their talent. Look where their transfers end up. Watch the draft and free agent signings. Their roster is garbage.
If we were playing Clemson or somebody then fine, but look at Syracuse's stats, they looked like 5 stars yesterday but I bet their rankings are no better than ours.

 

[JJacket]

You're right but we didn't play Pitt or UNC. I'm pretty sure I saw pregame that we were bigger on both lines than Syracuse. We got bitch slapped because of coaching, not size or talent

The point is, if we want to be at the top of our league, that is several years and recruiting classes away. We need 4-5 DL's we need 4-5 OL's who are more naturally gifted than what we have. We got at least 1 this past signing class on OL. We have got to start pulling in the big guys. UGAg looked like warmed over öööö early yesterday, but they have a big OL and big DL on the 1 & 2 deep of ballers. Even with the Gagger QB looking like crap in the first half, the defense was denying Arkansas of any running game or long passing game since they have a disruptive DL.
In the second half, even with a mediocre QB in the game, the Gagger OL imposed their will on the Arkansas DL.
Will we ever get to that point where our QB can look like hell and the defense just owns the game anyway? I hope so. Great Clips Kirbs could afford to move QB's in and out of the game. Besides, all UGAg did to start the second half is hand it to that Zamphir kid and let him run behind the road graders

 

[JJacket]

Even if our roster is garbage, we played Syracuse.
read what other say about their talent. Look where their transfers end up. Watch the draft and free agent signings. Their roster is garbage.
If we were playing Clemson or somebody then fine, but look at Syracuse's stats, they looked like 5 stars yesterday but I bet their rankings are no better than ours.

I hate to break the news to everyone, our talent isn't world's above Syracuse's talent.