Catchall Deion Sanders Thread

[ee8384]

To start, I didn't make an argument about the legitimacy of McIntyre's tenure, you started that, I simply responded. Regardless, CU decided to can him and Deion must only improve on what happened in the recent past to show progress. We're not comparing every coach that comes in to Tech against Bobby Dodd's performance. Again more ridiculous logic.

Second, for a school full of mathematicians, some of you are really struggling here. Take yourself a minute and use the interweb to search the Buffs, year over year football ticket sales revenue. Go ahead I'll wait.......

If you can't figure out what that equates to, you're beyond talking to at this point. Just make sure you keep sending that check to the AT fund.

No. You made an argument that Deion going from 1 win to 4 wins was some sort of genius coaching job. I merely pointed out that McIntyre did the same, got CU to 10 wins, then they reverted to the mean and he was out. McIntyre's tenure is an extremely relevant benchmark for measuring both Deion's coaching skills and progress, as well as what CU's expectations and business approach may be.

 

[ElCidBUZZingFAN]

Deion Sanders sends message to recruits: ‘We’re not going to buy anybody’

Deion Sanders wants players to come to Colorado for the right reasons

www.yahoo.com

Weird take from a guy who we’re told has a bottomless pit of NIL money thanks to him.

 

[gambler]

No. You made an argument that Deion going from 1 win to 4 wins was some sort of genius coaching job. I merely pointed out that McIntyre did the same, got CU to 10 wins, then they reverted to the mean and he was out. McIntyre's tenure is an extremely relevant benchmark for measuring both Deion's coaching skills and progress, as well as what CU's expectations and business approach may be.

Still avoiding the crux of the discussion. Did McIntyre generate the revenue Deion has while at CU? That's part of the reason he is gone. If Deion continues to lose AND costs money, then you guys were right. But for now you don't have a leg to stand on after 11 months. Accept it!

 

[JJacket]

Still avoiding the crux of the discussion. Did McIntyre generate the revenue Deion has while at CU? That's part of the reason he is gone. If Deion continues to lose AND costs money, then you guys were right. But for now you don't have a leg to stand on after 11 months. Accept it!

He has covered the revenue. We get it. You have a raging boner for Deion and Colorado. GFY.

 

[gambler]

I'm not struggling. He sucks as a coach and couldn't win an HBCU championship with significantly better talent than his opponent.

Colorado was woefully unprepared for their last game and his son straight up quit the game. Yea, they fabricated a nice little story about it. It was Jeff Sims at GT quit. Moping around on the sideline, pouting, before being taken to the locker room.

Okay you don't like them, we established that a long time ago and realize it's the reason you're not looking at this objectively. Thanks for dropping in.

 

[ee8384]

Still avoiding the crux of the discussion. Did McIntyre generate the revenue Deion has while at CU? That's part of the reason he is gone. If Deion continues to lose AND costs money, then you guys were right. But for now you don't have a leg to stand on after 11 months. Accept it!

Funny how you keep talking about the extra money but have completely ignored these 2 posts:

2022 Season Ticket sales were about 20K, Student passes were about 14K. That's 34K allotted tickets BEFORE Deion. (source: https://www.buffzone.com/2022/06/27/cu-buffs-pleased-with-season-ticket-renewal-rate/)

That means assuming your numbers of 50K capacity, there is a net difference from pre-Deion to post-Deion of about 16K in season ticket sales. That doesn't mean that all 16K would have not been sold if Deion wasn't the coach. There are a lot of sales made in small packages and for specific opponents. For example Colorado State, Nebraska and USC would have been big ticket sellers at home beyond the season ticket holders regardless of who the new coach was. Two of those are rivalries and the other one is a marque program.

But lets generously assume Deion added 10K in ticket sales that no other HC hire would have drawn in. Using your numbers of $100/ticket = $1M increase in gross ticket revenue per home game. 6 games x 1M = $6M. Not all of that is profit of course. There is a cost to running a major college football event seating 50K.

The ultimate net increase in revenue is MILES away from your back of the napkin math.

Additionally, we will never know what the increase in ticket sales would have been with any other hire that wasn't Deion. Pretty much any new hire with a pulse would have generated additional ticket sales and we'll never know how many or what the net difference would be with or without Deion.

While additional ticket sales, merch, etc. is all well and good and may certainly help pay for his first year, now that the shine has worn off, and the product on the field has been seen, we'll get a chance to see how the increase revenue holds up after a losing record in year one with Utah still to go.

There can be a big difference between 4-8 and 5-7 especially after the disaster against Wazzoo. That Utah game is important. If the Fighting Prime Times phone that one in and Utah walks over them as the spread would indicate they will, look out for a boat load of season ticket cancellations and a stock room full of Prime Time Colorado merchandise collecting dust.

We'll see.

To add some further clarity, the image below shows attendance figures for the last 4 coaches including this year for Deion. The two numbers at the right are total home attendance and average attendance for each home game.

(source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folsom_Field)

You will notice that the total between the 2022 team under Dorrell that went 1-11 and the 2023 Deion led team is 61997 which is in line with my guesstimate of an additional 10K tickets per home game.

You will also notice that the 2019 Mel Tucker team had a similar total and average attendance numbers to Deion which supports the notion that a good hire of any notoriety would have had a significant impact to overall season ticket and other ticket sales.

Deion definitely helped ticket sales but the net impact to revenue considered in the context of historical numbers is probably something closer to $2M based on comparisons of Mel Tuckers numbers vs Deions. Certainly a positive for Deion but nothing even remotely close to paying his salary. Given the 4-7 record, the likelihood of those ticket sales continuing at the same pace for next year is very low.

There will unquestionably be a decline.

 

[JJacket]

Okay you don't like them, we established that a long time ago and realize it's the reason you're not looking at this objectively. Thanks for dropping in.

Objectively? Did you watch their last game? That was every bit as bad, maybe worse, than a Geoff Collins coached game. A clueless coach wandering the sideline, giving little to no input to coaches or players, just kind of wandering around like a lost old dementia patient. The only ööööing time he appeared to give a öööö about anything is when his son was being a little quitter bitch on the sidelines, walking around with a towel over his head. Deion walked over and coddled the little bitch and then sent him to the locker room.

He sucks as a coach. You suck him as a coach.

 

[Dirty Jacket]

Inappropriate use of Hate on The Hateday

 

[gt2690b]

Funny how you keep talking about the extra money but have completely ignored these 2 posts:

I hate Colorado and hope Deion brings them down to hell in a ball of fire but so far he has made them a öööö ton of money

Sanders' move to Colorado resulted in over $45 million in earned media money for the school, according to the Apex Marketing Group. The school has also seen a 42% increase in sponsorship revenue.

Deion Sanders has increased Colorado's merchandise sales by more than 1200% year-to-date

The school has also seen a rise in out-of-state student applications since Sanders' arrival

www.cbssports.com

 

[ee8384]

I hate Colorado and hope Deion brings them down to hell in a ball of fire but so far he has made them a öööö ton of money

Sanders' move to Colorado resulted in over $45 million in earned media money for the school, according to the Apex Marketing Group. The school has also seen a 42% increase in sponsorship revenue.

Deion Sanders has increased Colorado's merchandise sales by more than 1200% year-to-date

The school has also seen a rise in out-of-state student applications since Sanders' arrival

www.cbssports.com

What exactly is "earned media money"? Don't guess - how does Apex Marketing Group calculate this?

2022 NCAA Financial Report - University of Colorado Athletics

2022 NCAA Financial Report

cubuffs.com

Here is the 2022 Revenue/Expense report CU filed with the NCAA. So let's set a baseline of facts that we can compare against when the 2023 report is filed. Projections by external marketing firms and percentage gains ($1 to $12 is 1200%) are meaningless against the actual reporting.

Total football revenue was $49.1M, expenses were $25.5M.

Let's look at the revenue and expense streams that Deion can actually impact in his first year (i.e. - conference payments, TV rights fees, etc. are what they are and Deion couldn't have impacted in year one).

Revenue:
Ticket sales $16.6M
Contributions $5.9M
Program, Novelty, Parking, Concessions $1.5M
Sports Camps $0.1M
Endowments $0.6M

"Deion impactable revenue" = $23.7M (we can already see that claiming Deion brought in $30M extra would be doubling this number)

Expenses:
Athletic Aid $4.9M
Head Coach Salary $4.1M
Asst Coaches Salaries $4.3M
Support Staff $2.1M
Recruiting $0.8M
Equipment $0.9M
Game Expenses $2.7M

"Deion impactable expenses" = $19.8M

Sponsorships are included in Royalty, Licensing, Advertisements & Sponsorships and as the link to the article you posted noted, these are rolled up at the school level, not by sport. The total of this revenue item in 2022 was $5.9M and Sponsorships are not broken out separately. We'll see how much this overall item increased in the next report. Even if the entire amount $5.9M is Sponsorships, a 42% increase would be ~$2.5M incremental dollars.

Feel free to go through the report and show what you would consider baseline. Bookmark this for when the 2023 report is filed so we can compare.

@gambler

 

[gt2690b]

What exactly is "earned media money"? Don't guess - how does Apex Marketing Group calculate this?

2022 NCAA Financial Report - University of Colorado Athletics

2022 NCAA Financial Report

cubuffs.com

Here is the 2022 Revenue/Expense report CU filed with the NCAA. So let's set a baseline of facts that we can compare against when the 2023 report is filed. Projections by external marketing firms and percentage gains ($1 to $12 is 1200%) are meaningless against the actual reporting.

Total football revenue was $49.1M, expenses were $25.5M.

Let's look at the revenue and expense streams that Deion can actually impact in his first year (i.e. - conference payments, TV rights fees, etc. are what they are and Deion couldn't have impacted in year one).

Revenue:
Ticket sales $16.6M
Contributions $5.9M
Program, Novelty, Parking, Concessions $1.5M
Sports Camps $0.1M
Endowments $0.6M

"Deion impactable revenue" = $23.7M (we can already see that claiming Deion brought in $30M extra would be doubling this number)

Expenses:
Athletic Aid $4.9M
Head Coach Salary $4.1M
Asst Coaches Salaries $4.3M
Support Staff $2.1M
Recruiting $0.8M
Equipment $0.9M
Game Expenses $2.7M

"Deion impactable expenses" = $19.8M

Sponsorships are included in Royalty, Licensing, Advertisements & Sponsorships and as the link to the article you posted noted, these are rolled up at the school level, not by sport. The total of this revenue item in 2022 was $5.9M and Sponsorships are not broken out separately. We'll see how much this overall item increased in the next report. Even if the entire amount $5.9M is Sponsorships, a 42% increase would be ~$2.5M incremental dollars.

Feel free to go through the report and show what you would consider baseline. Bookmark this for when the 2023 report is filed so we can compare.

@gambler

His son is already in commercials the NIL impact is huge.. Deion can confidently tell recruits he will make them a boat load of money.. whether they believe him or not is why I think next years recruiting class is the main measuring stick

https://www.si.com/college/colorado/buffs-stuff/shedeur-sanders-signs-nil-deal-with-smoothie-king-to-offer-the-shedeur

 

[ee8384]

I looked up the "earned media money". It is Apex Marketing's estimate on how much extra media exposure gained would have cost had you purchased it. For example, every time SportsCenter talked about Deion for 30 seconds, Apex would value that at the price of a 30 second commercial purchased on that program in that time slot.

In other words, it's not spendable "money". CU wouldn't have done the ad buys anyway, so it didn't save them expenses either.

 

[ee8384]

His son is already in commercials the NIL impact is huge.. Deion can confidently tell recruits he will make them a boat load of money.. whether they believe him or not is why I think next years recruiting class is the main measuring stick

https://www.si.com/college/colorado/buffs-stuff/shedeur-sanders-signs-nil-deal-with-smoothie-king-to-offer-the-shedeur

All that proves is Deion can leverage the Sanders name to get his son a boatload of money. Wonder if Daddy is getting a percentage back from his kid?

 

[gambler]

Funny how you keep talking about the extra money but have completely ignored these 2 posts:

Nobody is ignoring the posts, you are using theoretical numbers when the actual numbers are out there. My numbers never were napkin math, they are published by the school. I'm not going to reiterate it again because you won't do a simple search. If we were debating theory then that is one thing but what's happening is you are debating hypotheticals while I'm pulling facts.

I'm not talking about some media money, however that does have added value. We're talking earned revenue the school already has in the bank.

 

[ee8384]

Nobody is ignoring the posts, you are using theoretical numbers when the actual numbers are out there. My numbers never were napkin math, they are published by the school. I'm not going to reiterate it again because you won't do a simple search. If we were debating theory then that is one thing but what's happening is you are debating hypotheticals while I'm pulling facts.

I'm not talking about some media money, however that does have added value. We're talking earned revenue the school already has in the bank.

I did the simple search and tagged you in the post using the facts. Have at it.

 

[gambler]

What exactly is "earned media money"? Don't guess - how does Apex Marketing Group calculate this?

2022 NCAA Financial Report - University of Colorado Athletics

2022 NCAA Financial Report

cubuffs.com

Here is the 2022 Revenue/Expense report CU filed with the NCAA. So let's set a baseline of facts that we can compare against when the 2023 report is filed. Projections by external marketing firms and percentage gains ($1 to $12 is 1200%) are meaningless against the actual reporting.

Total football revenue was $49.1M, expenses were $25.5M.

Let's look at the revenue and expense streams that Deion can actually impact in his first year (i.e. - conference payments, TV rights fees, etc. are what they are and Deion couldn't have impacted in year one).

Revenue:
Ticket sales $16.6M
Contributions $5.9M
Program, Novelty, Parking, Concessions $1.5M
Sports Camps $0.1M
Endowments $0.6M

"Deion impactable revenue" = $23.7M (we can already see that claiming Deion brought in $30M extra would be doubling this number)

Expenses:
Athletic Aid $4.9M
Head Coach Salary $4.1M
Asst Coaches Salaries $4.3M
Support Staff $2.1M
Recruiting $0.8M
Equipment $0.9M
Game Expenses $2.7M

"Deion impactable expenses" = $19.8M

Sponsorships are included in Royalty, Licensing, Advertisements & Sponsorships and as the link to the article you posted noted, these are rolled up at the school level, not by sport. The total of this revenue item in 2022 was $5.9M and Sponsorships are not broken out separately. We'll see how much this overall item increased in the next report. Even if the entire amount $5.9M is Sponsorships, a 42% increase would be ~$2.5M incremental dollars.

Feel free to go through the report and show what you would consider baseline. Bookmark this for when the 2023 report is filed so we can compare.

@gambler

Yes now you're figuring it out. But you don't have to wait until 2023 is published, the school already has midyear YoY earnings statements they have made public.

 

[gt2690b]

All that proves is Deion can leverage the Sanders name to get his son a boatload of money. Wonder if Daddy is getting a percentage back from his kid?

Travis Hunter is #4 overall

 

[ee8384]

Yes now you're figuring it out. But you don't have to wait until 2023 is published, the school already has midyear YoY earnings statements they have made public.

Link to midyear earnings statement?

 

[ee8384]

Yes now you're figuring it out. But you don't have to wait until 2023 is published, the school already has midyear YoY earnings statements they have made public.

Provide your source for this "fact" you put in an earlier post: "CU's ticket sales this year alone surpassed 30 million".

Attendance by year per Wikipedia:

2016 MacIntyre 279,652 46,609
2017 MacIntyre 282,335 47,056
2018 MacIntyre 274,852 45,809
2019 Tucker 297,435 49,573
2020 Dorrell — —
2021 Dorrell 278,906 46,484
2022 Dorrell 257,084 42,847
2023 Sanders 319,081 53,180

So 60K extra attendees vs. last year (24% increase). 2022 ticket revenue was $16.6M (average of $64.59 per attendee) so +24% would be $20.6M (+$4M). To reach $30M CU would have had to seen the average attendee ticket price increase to $94.04. Yet CU only raised prices 5% from 2022-2023.

2023 Football Season Ticket Pricing Map - University of Colorado Athletics

2023 Football Season Ticket Pricing Map

cubuffs.com

You also have to factor in that given the 2022 performance on the field, the average attendance probably represents a lot of season ticket holders that didn't show up at the game. 46K is the representative average attendance so more likely the attendee increase is closer to 40K.

I'll predict that in the 2023 NCAA report football ticket revenue will come in around $20M.

 

[gt2690b]

Provide your source for this "fact" you put in an earlier post: "CU's ticket sales this year alone surpassed 30 million".

Attendance by year per Wikipedia:

2016 MacIntyre 279,652 46,609
2017 MacIntyre 282,335 47,056
2018 MacIntyre 274,852 45,809
2019 Tucker 297,435 49,573
2020 Dorrell — —
2021 Dorrell 278,906 46,484
2022 Dorrell 257,084 42,847
2023 Sanders 319,081 53,180

So 60K extra attendees vs. last year (24% increase). 2022 ticket revenue was $16.6M (average of $64.59 per attendee) so +24% would be $20.6M (+$4M). To reach $30M CU would have had to seen the average attendee ticket price increase to $94.04. Yet CU only raised prices 5% from 2022-2023.

2023 Football Season Ticket Pricing Map - University of Colorado Athletics

2023 Football Season Ticket Pricing Map

cubuffs.com

You also have to factor in that given the 2022 performance on the field, the average attendance probably represents a lot of season ticket holders that didn't show up at the game. 46K is the representative average attendance so more likely the attendee increase is closer to 40K.

I'll predict that in the 2023 NCAA report football ticket revenue will come in around $20M.

I see you ignored my NIL facts