CGC naysayers check in

sthorfinnr said:
In 2016, which would be this year's RS-Jrs and Srs, FSU had 5 four star OL in one class. If that's screwing up recruiting, gimme some of dat. 2018, they signed Christian Meadows and Christian Armstrong (both of whom we wanted), got a high four star in 2019, and brought in a higher rated OL class than us last year (a four star and 3 high three stars). They may have OL issues, but nobody in power 5 even begins to touch the job Brent Key has had to do converting from option football.
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Screwing up recruiting is loosely referring to retaining, developing, bad evaluation and/or bad luck (injury). From that 2016 class:
4-star Landon Dickerson - transfer to Bama
4-star Baveon Johnson - season ending knee surgeries twice, trying to restart his career
4-star Jauan Williams - never panned out and kicked off team for off field arrest
3-star Mike Arnold - high three star, role player, transferred out in 2020
3-star Andrew Boselli - high three star, back up OC

So none of those guys really worked out well for the Noles. Baveon Johnson is starting right guard but has two bad knees and a bad injury history.
 
TampaBayJacket said:
Screwing up recruiting is loosely referring to retaining, developing, bad evaluation and/or bad luck (injury). From that 2016 class:
4-star Landon Dickerson - transfer to Bama
4-star Baveon Johnson - season ending knee surgeries twice, trying to restart his career
4-star Jauan Williams - never panned out and kicked off team for off field arrest
3-star Mike Arnold - high three star, role player, transferred out in 2020
3-star Andrew Boselli - high three star, back up OC

So none of those guys really worked out well for the Noles. Baveon Johnson is starting right guard but has two bad knees and a bad injury history.
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Just so I understand, you're arguing that transfers, injuries, and off field arrests after Fisher left are Fisher's fault?? I have a hard time seeing how any of that reflects on poor recruiting outside of potentially the off field arrest.
 
aeromech said:
Just so I understand, you're arguing that transfers, injuries, and off field arrests after Fisher left are Fisher's fault?? I have a hard time seeing how any of that reflects on poor recruiting outside of potentially the off field arrest.
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It's unfair to blame all of this on Jimbo (even though all of my FSU buddies do), but evaluation and developing OL is part of the process that can be pinned on Jimbo. Offensive line, of all positions, is the one area that requires development and is rare for a player to be a finished product coming in. Most recruits are still projects, even highly recruited ones. This was the complete failure in Jimbo's tenure at FSU. Once he got behind the OL 8-ball he started putting his name out there for other jobs. That's why he is so hated by FSU right now.
 
Walton said:
My threshold for this game and season is : I want to be better than last year and not look like the worst team in the conference.

I don't care about being objectively "good" yet. That would be nice of course but I'm going to enjoy the ride.
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A win this Saturday would go a long way toward some enjoying the ride but it might be an if you give a mouse a cookie type situation.
 
TampaBayJacket said:
It's unfair to blame all of this on Jimbo (even though all of my FSU buddies do), but evaluation and developing OL is part of the process that can be pinned on Jimbo. Offensive line, of all positions, is the one area that requires development and is rare for a player to be a finished product coming in. Most recruits are still projects, even highly recruited ones. This was the complete failure in Jimbo's tenure at FSU. Once he got behind the OL 8-ball he started putting his name out there for other jobs. That's why he is so hated by FSU right now.
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I could see that argument for the 2018 and even to some extent the 2019 seasons; but not this season. If he recruited high 3* or better bodies, somebody else needs to retain and develop them, they did not apparently.
 
TampaBayJacket said:
This is really mostly Jimbo Fisher's fault. He pretty much messed up OL recruiting his last few years and then jumped off his sinking ship with a $75M TAMU bailout. FSU has been rebuilding it's line almost to the same magnitude as we had to do and they were very thin going into this game. They didnt have room for a single injury and had 4 OL injured by the end of the game. Thats why we destroyed them in the 4th quarter. Their OL is going to be what limits their program this year and next.
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FSU OL was booty before Jimbo
 
Collins got a 5-star...


Eh-NLEPXsAMClCl.jpeg
t-shirt
 
TampaBayJacket said:
Screwing up recruiting is loosely referring to retaining, developing, bad evaluation and/or bad luck (injury). From that 2016 class:
4-star Landon Dickerson - transfer to Bama
4-star Baveon Johnson - season ending knee surgeries twice, trying to restart his career
4-star Jauan Williams - never panned out and kicked off team for off field arrest
3-star Mike Arnold - high three star, role player, transferred out in 2020
3-star Andrew Boselli - high three star, back up OC

So none of those guys really worked out well for the Noles. Baveon Johnson is starting right guard but has two bad knees and a bad injury history.
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Have you done this analysis of the GT Class of 16?

It helps explain last year's difficulties and why we still need transfers and true freshmen.
 
OptionsJacket said:
TJ might not have, but a lot of Tech fans still need to understand your 2nd point.
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That should have been the backbone class of last years team and still a big factor on this year's group.

Look at it yourself, starting with the top players ("top" being relative). It is gone. Obliterated. Not available last year or this, and not from early NFL entry.

It explains why Temple, for example, had more talent and more experienced talent than we did.

Never again.
 
I'm still a Collins naysayer.
1. He lost to the Citadel. No excuse for that. ever.
2. His little shuck and jive at the 11;56 mark of the fourth of last year's Va Tech game still makes my blood boil.

However .. I think CDP called a good game Saturday. Our secondary remains a strength and should get better if Myles Sims continues to progress. There is some depth there and it was pretty deep last year too.

I'll go some yeah, but for here.

1. Sims played well. Found a bunch of different targets and bailed out the OL a time or two - or more -with his elusiveness.
Yeah but ... FSU could have had three pick 6s. Mason saved one, Samuel just ran right into Defoor on the other and their defender just straight dropped one in his hands. They also lost Kaindoh early in the game and he's a first round pick. I watched our freshman right tackle a lot and he held his own on some plays. On some, he got whipped. Other than the drive that Mason ended with the TD, we really struggled to get much out of the run game.
2. Our D line played well.
Yeah but... FSU's bad O line lost four guys through the game, as has been noted. So their lousy depth showed.
3. Our special teams still suck
Yeah but ... they still suck
4. There is going to be a quarterback controversy.
Yeah but ,,, it ain't us. Norvell better get the freshman ready because Blackman just ain't the answer for FSU. I think Norvell is going to do a good job at FSU. Taggart was in way, way over his head. And from all I've read, the players have a lot of trust in Norvell's football acumen.
 
swampsting said:
I'm still a Collins naysayer.
1. He lost to the Citadel. No excuse for that. ever.
2. His little shuck and jive at the 11;56 mark of the fourth of last year's Va Tech game still makes my blood boil.

However .. I think CDP called a good game Saturday. Our secondary remains a strength and should get better if Myles Sims continues to progress. There is some depth there and it was pretty deep last year too.

I'll go some yeah, but for here.

1. Sims played well. Found a bunch of different targets and bailed out the OL a time or two - or more -with his elusiveness.
Yeah but ... FSU could have had three pick 6s. Mason saved one, Samuel just ran right into Defoor on the other and their defender just straight dropped one in his hands. They also lost Kaindoh early in the game and he's a first round pick. I watched our freshman right tackle a lot and he held his own on some plays. On some, he got whipped. Other than the drive that Mason ended with the TD, we really struggled to get much out of the run game.
2. Our D line played well.
Yeah but... FSU's bad O line lost four guys through the game, as has been noted. So their lousy depth showed.
3. Our special teams still suck
Yeah but ... they still suck
4. There is going to be a quarterback controversy.
Yeah but ,,, it ain't us. Norvell better get the freshman ready because Blackman just ain't the answer for FSU. I think Norvell is going to do a good job at FSU. Taggart was in way, way over his head. And from all I've read, the players have a lot of trust in Norvell's football acumen.
Click to expand...
The man still rocking a Johnson avatar is a Collins naysayer...
 
swampsting said:
I'm still a Collins naysayer.
1. He lost to the Citadel. No excuse for that. ever.
2. His little shuck and jive at the 11;56 mark of the fourth of last year's Va Tech game still makes my blood boil.

However .. I think CDP called a good game Saturday. Our secondary remains a strength and should get better if Myles Sims continues to progress. There is some depth there and it was pretty deep last year too.

I'll go some yeah, but for here.

1. Sims played well. Found a bunch of different targets and bailed out the OL a time or two - or more -with his elusiveness.
Yeah but ... FSU could have had three pick 6s. Mason saved one, Samuel just ran right into Defoor on the other and their defender just straight dropped one in his hands. They also lost Kaindoh early in the game and he's a first round pick. I watched our freshman right tackle a lot and he held his own on some plays. On some, he got whipped. Other than the drive that Mason ended with the TD, we really struggled to get much out of the run game.
2. Our D line played well.
Yeah but... FSU's bad O line lost four guys through the game, as has been noted. So their lousy depth showed.
3. Our special teams still suck
Yeah but ... they still suck
4. There is going to be a quarterback controversy.
Yeah but ,,, it ain't us. Norvell better get the freshman ready because Blackman just ain't the answer for FSU. I think Norvell is going to do a good job at FSU. Taggart was in way, way over his head. And from all I've read, the players have a lot of trust in Norvell's football acumen.
Click to expand...
I can’t imagine how much it must suck to go through life as a Yeahbutter
 
swampsting said:
I'm still a Collins naysayer.
1. He lost to the Citadel. No excuse for that. ever.
2. His little shuck and jive at the 11;56 mark of the fourth of last year's Va Tech game still makes my blood boil.

However .. I think CDP called a good game Saturday. Our secondary remains a strength and should get better if Myles Sims continues to progress. There is some depth there and it was pretty deep last year too.

I'll go some yeah, but for here.

1. Sims played well. Found a bunch of different targets and bailed out the OL a time or two - or more -with his elusiveness.
Yeah but ... FSU could have had three pick 6s. Mason saved one, Samuel just ran right into Defoor on the other and their defender just straight dropped one in his hands. They also lost Kaindoh early in the game and he's a first round pick. I watched our freshman right tackle a lot and he held his own on some plays. On some, he got whipped. Other than the drive that Mason ended with the TD, we really struggled to get much out of the run game.
2. Our D line played well.
Yeah but... FSU's bad O line lost four guys through the game, as has been noted. So their lousy depth showed.
3. Our special teams still suck
Yeah but ... they still suck
4. There is going to be a quarterback controversy.
Yeah but ,,, it ain't us. Norvell better get the freshman ready because Blackman just ain't the answer for FSU. I think Norvell is going to do a good job at FSU. Taggart was in way, way over his head. And from all I've read, the players have a lot of trust in Norvell's football acumen.
Click to expand...
This is seriously weak.
"We played well."
"Yeah, but they played poorly."

(And you notice it's never
"We played poorly."
"Yeah, but they played well.")
 
swampsting said:
I'm still a Collins naysayer.
1. He lost to the Citadel. No excuse for that. ever.
2. His little shuck and jive at the 11;56 mark of the fourth of last year's Va Tech game still makes my blood boil.

However .. I think CDP called a good game Saturday. Our secondary remains a strength and should get better if Myles Sims continues to progress. There is some depth there and it was pretty deep last year too.

I'll go some yeah, but for here.

1. Sims played well. Found a bunch of different targets and bailed out the OL a time or two - or more -with his elusiveness.
Yeah but ... FSU could have had three pick 6s. Mason saved one, Samuel just ran right into Defoor on the other and their defender just straight dropped one in his hands. They also lost Kaindoh early in the game and he's a first round pick. I watched our freshman right tackle a lot and he held his own on some plays. On some, he got whipped. Other than the drive that Mason ended with the TD, we really struggled to get much out of the run game.
2. Our D line played well.
Yeah but... FSU's bad O line lost four guys through the game, as has been noted. So their lousy depth showed.
3. Our special teams still suck
Yeah but ... they still suck
4. There is going to be a quarterback controversy.
Yeah but ,,, it ain't us. Norvell better get the freshman ready because Blackman just ain't the answer for FSU. I think Norvell is going to do a good job at FSU. Taggart was in way, way over his head. And from all I've read, the players have a lot of trust in Norvell's football acumen.
Click to expand...
You sound like Tech winning made you unhappy. Would you have rather they lost so you could öööö on the coaching staff?
 
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