CGC naysayers check in

TampaBayJacket

Dodd-Like
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
3,564
In 2016, which would be this year's RS-Jrs and Srs, FSU had 5 four star OL in one class. If that's screwing up recruiting, gimme some of dat. 2018, they signed Christian Meadows and Christian Armstrong (both of whom we wanted), got a high four star in 2019, and brought in a higher rated OL class than us last year (a four star and 3 high three stars). They may have OL issues, but nobody in power 5 even begins to touch the job Brent Key has had to do converting from option football.
Screwing up recruiting is loosely referring to retaining, developing, bad evaluation and/or bad luck (injury). From that 2016 class:
4-star Landon Dickerson - transfer to Bama
4-star Baveon Johnson - season ending knee surgeries twice, trying to restart his career
4-star Jauan Williams - never panned out and kicked off team for off field arrest
3-star Mike Arnold - high three star, role player, transferred out in 2020
3-star Andrew Boselli - high three star, back up OC

So none of those guys really worked out well for the Noles. Baveon Johnson is starting right guard but has two bad knees and a bad injury history.
 

aeromech

Dodd-Like
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
11,405
Screwing up recruiting is loosely referring to retaining, developing, bad evaluation and/or bad luck (injury). From that 2016 class:
4-star Landon Dickerson - transfer to Bama
4-star Baveon Johnson - season ending knee surgeries twice, trying to restart his career
4-star Jauan Williams - never panned out and kicked off team for off field arrest
3-star Mike Arnold - high three star, role player, transferred out in 2020
3-star Andrew Boselli - high three star, back up OC

So none of those guys really worked out well for the Noles. Baveon Johnson is starting right guard but has two bad knees and a bad injury history.
Just so I understand, you're arguing that transfers, injuries, and off field arrests after Fisher left are Fisher's fault?? I have a hard time seeing how any of that reflects on poor recruiting outside of potentially the off field arrest.
 

TampaBayJacket

Dodd-Like
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
3,564
Just so I understand, you're arguing that transfers, injuries, and off field arrests after Fisher left are Fisher's fault?? I have a hard time seeing how any of that reflects on poor recruiting outside of potentially the off field arrest.
It's unfair to blame all of this on Jimbo (even though all of my FSU buddies do), but evaluation and developing OL is part of the process that can be pinned on Jimbo. Offensive line, of all positions, is the one area that requires development and is rare for a player to be a finished product coming in. Most recruits are still projects, even highly recruited ones. This was the complete failure in Jimbo's tenure at FSU. Once he got behind the OL 8-ball he started putting his name out there for other jobs. That's why he is so hated by FSU right now.
 

BigDanT

Damn the Torpedoes
Joined
Jul 1, 2015
Messages
3,970
My threshold for this game and season is : I want to be better than last year and not look like the worst team in the conference.

I don't care about being objectively "good" yet. That would be nice of course but I'm going to enjoy the ride.
A win this Saturday would go a long way toward some enjoying the ride but it might be an if you give a mouse a cookie type situation.
 

aeromech

Dodd-Like
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
11,405
It's unfair to blame all of this on Jimbo (even though all of my FSU buddies do), but evaluation and developing OL is part of the process that can be pinned on Jimbo. Offensive line, of all positions, is the one area that requires development and is rare for a player to be a finished product coming in. Most recruits are still projects, even highly recruited ones. This was the complete failure in Jimbo's tenure at FSU. Once he got behind the OL 8-ball he started putting his name out there for other jobs. That's why he is so hated by FSU right now.
I could see that argument for the 2018 and even to some extent the 2019 seasons; but not this season. If he recruited high 3* or better bodies, somebody else needs to retain and develop them, they did not apparently.
 

OptionsJacket

Varsity Lurker
Joined
Sep 3, 2020
Messages
211
This is really mostly Jimbo Fisher's fault. He pretty much messed up OL recruiting his last few years and then jumped off his sinking ship with a $75M TAMU bailout. FSU has been rebuilding it's line almost to the same magnitude as we had to do and they were very thin going into this game. They didnt have room for a single injury and had 4 OL injured by the end of the game. Thats why we destroyed them in the 4th quarter. Their OL is going to be what limits their program this year and next.
FSU OL was booty before Jimbo
 

Techbert

Dodd-Like
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Messages
16,916
Screwing up recruiting is loosely referring to retaining, developing, bad evaluation and/or bad luck (injury). From that 2016 class:
4-star Landon Dickerson - transfer to Bama
4-star Baveon Johnson - season ending knee surgeries twice, trying to restart his career
4-star Jauan Williams - never panned out and kicked off team for off field arrest
3-star Mike Arnold - high three star, role player, transferred out in 2020
3-star Andrew Boselli - high three star, back up OC

So none of those guys really worked out well for the Noles. Baveon Johnson is starting right guard but has two bad knees and a bad injury history.
Have you done this analysis of the GT Class of 16?

It helps explain last year's difficulties and why we still need transfers and true freshmen.
 

Techbert

Dodd-Like
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Messages
16,916
TJ might not have, but a lot of Tech fans still need to understand your 2nd point.
That should have been the backbone class of last years team and still a big factor on this year's group.

Look at it yourself, starting with the top players ("top" being relative). It is gone. Obliterated. Not available last year or this, and not from early NFL entry.

It explains why Temple, for example, had more talent and more experienced talent than we did.

Never again.
 

swampsting

Dodd-Like
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
5,334
I'm still a Collins naysayer.
1. He lost to the Citadel. No excuse for that. ever.
2. His little shuck and jive at the 11;56 mark of the fourth of last year's Va Tech game still makes my blood boil.

However .. I think CDP called a good game Saturday. Our secondary remains a strength and should get better if Myles Sims continues to progress. There is some depth there and it was pretty deep last year too.

I'll go some yeah, but for here.

1. Sims played well. Found a bunch of different targets and bailed out the OL a time or two - or more -with his elusiveness.
Yeah but ... FSU could have had three pick 6s. Mason saved one, Samuel just ran right into Defoor on the other and their defender just straight dropped one in his hands. They also lost Kaindoh early in the game and he's a first round pick. I watched our freshman right tackle a lot and he held his own on some plays. On some, he got whipped. Other than the drive that Mason ended with the TD, we really struggled to get much out of the run game.
2. Our D line played well.
Yeah but... FSU's bad O line lost four guys through the game, as has been noted. So their lousy depth showed.
3. Our special teams still suck
Yeah but ... they still suck
4. There is going to be a quarterback controversy.
Yeah but ,,, it ain't us. Norvell better get the freshman ready because Blackman just ain't the answer for FSU. I think Norvell is going to do a good job at FSU. Taggart was in way, way over his head. And from all I've read, the players have a lot of trust in Norvell's football acumen.
 

Diseqc

Piss on em
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
40,028
I'm still a Collins naysayer.
1. He lost to the Citadel. No excuse for that. ever.
2. His little shuck and jive at the 11;56 mark of the fourth of last year's Va Tech game still makes my blood boil.

However .. I think CDP called a good game Saturday. Our secondary remains a strength and should get better if Myles Sims continues to progress. There is some depth there and it was pretty deep last year too.

I'll go some yeah, but for here.

1. Sims played well. Found a bunch of different targets and bailed out the OL a time or two - or more -with his elusiveness.
Yeah but ... FSU could have had three pick 6s. Mason saved one, Samuel just ran right into Defoor on the other and their defender just straight dropped one in his hands. They also lost Kaindoh early in the game and he's a first round pick. I watched our freshman right tackle a lot and he held his own on some plays. On some, he got whipped. Other than the drive that Mason ended with the TD, we really struggled to get much out of the run game.
2. Our D line played well.
Yeah but... FSU's bad O line lost four guys through the game, as has been noted. So their lousy depth showed.
3. Our special teams still suck
Yeah but ... they still suck
4. There is going to be a quarterback controversy.
Yeah but ,,, it ain't us. Norvell better get the freshman ready because Blackman just ain't the answer for FSU. I think Norvell is going to do a good job at FSU. Taggart was in way, way over his head. And from all I've read, the players have a lot of trust in Norvell's football acumen.
The man still rocking a Johnson avatar is a Collins naysayer...
 

ClubSeats

Employee of the Month
Joined
Jan 24, 2019
Messages
711
I'm still a Collins naysayer.
1. He lost to the Citadel. No excuse for that. ever.
2. His little shuck and jive at the 11;56 mark of the fourth of last year's Va Tech game still makes my blood boil.

However .. I think CDP called a good game Saturday. Our secondary remains a strength and should get better if Myles Sims continues to progress. There is some depth there and it was pretty deep last year too.

I'll go some yeah, but for here.

1. Sims played well. Found a bunch of different targets and bailed out the OL a time or two - or more -with his elusiveness.
Yeah but ... FSU could have had three pick 6s. Mason saved one, Samuel just ran right into Defoor on the other and their defender just straight dropped one in his hands. They also lost Kaindoh early in the game and he's a first round pick. I watched our freshman right tackle a lot and he held his own on some plays. On some, he got whipped. Other than the drive that Mason ended with the TD, we really struggled to get much out of the run game.
2. Our D line played well.
Yeah but... FSU's bad O line lost four guys through the game, as has been noted. So their lousy depth showed.
3. Our special teams still suck
Yeah but ... they still suck
4. There is going to be a quarterback controversy.
Yeah but ,,, it ain't us. Norvell better get the freshman ready because Blackman just ain't the answer for FSU. I think Norvell is going to do a good job at FSU. Taggart was in way, way over his head. And from all I've read, the players have a lot of trust in Norvell's football acumen.
I can’t imagine how much it must suck to go through life as a Yeahbutter
 

18in32

Petard Hoister
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
19,812
I'm still a Collins naysayer.
1. He lost to the Citadel. No excuse for that. ever.
2. His little shuck and jive at the 11;56 mark of the fourth of last year's Va Tech game still makes my blood boil.

However .. I think CDP called a good game Saturday. Our secondary remains a strength and should get better if Myles Sims continues to progress. There is some depth there and it was pretty deep last year too.

I'll go some yeah, but for here.

1. Sims played well. Found a bunch of different targets and bailed out the OL a time or two - or more -with his elusiveness.
Yeah but ... FSU could have had three pick 6s. Mason saved one, Samuel just ran right into Defoor on the other and their defender just straight dropped one in his hands. They also lost Kaindoh early in the game and he's a first round pick. I watched our freshman right tackle a lot and he held his own on some plays. On some, he got whipped. Other than the drive that Mason ended with the TD, we really struggled to get much out of the run game.
2. Our D line played well.
Yeah but... FSU's bad O line lost four guys through the game, as has been noted. So their lousy depth showed.
3. Our special teams still suck
Yeah but ... they still suck
4. There is going to be a quarterback controversy.
Yeah but ,,, it ain't us. Norvell better get the freshman ready because Blackman just ain't the answer for FSU. I think Norvell is going to do a good job at FSU. Taggart was in way, way over his head. And from all I've read, the players have a lot of trust in Norvell's football acumen.
This is seriously weak.
"We played well."
"Yeah, but they played poorly."

(And you notice it's never
"We played poorly."
"Yeah, but they played well.")
 

gtchief

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
2,920
I'm still a Collins naysayer.
1. He lost to the Citadel. No excuse for that. ever.
2. His little shuck and jive at the 11;56 mark of the fourth of last year's Va Tech game still makes my blood boil.

However .. I think CDP called a good game Saturday. Our secondary remains a strength and should get better if Myles Sims continues to progress. There is some depth there and it was pretty deep last year too.

I'll go some yeah, but for here.

1. Sims played well. Found a bunch of different targets and bailed out the OL a time or two - or more -with his elusiveness.
Yeah but ... FSU could have had three pick 6s. Mason saved one, Samuel just ran right into Defoor on the other and their defender just straight dropped one in his hands. They also lost Kaindoh early in the game and he's a first round pick. I watched our freshman right tackle a lot and he held his own on some plays. On some, he got whipped. Other than the drive that Mason ended with the TD, we really struggled to get much out of the run game.
2. Our D line played well.
Yeah but... FSU's bad O line lost four guys through the game, as has been noted. So their lousy depth showed.
3. Our special teams still suck
Yeah but ... they still suck
4. There is going to be a quarterback controversy.
Yeah but ,,, it ain't us. Norvell better get the freshman ready because Blackman just ain't the answer for FSU. I think Norvell is going to do a good job at FSU. Taggart was in way, way over his head. And from all I've read, the players have a lot of trust in Norvell's football acumen.
You sound like Tech winning made you unhappy. Would you have rather they lost so you could öööö on the coaching staff?
 
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