Combine Talk ft. Stephen Hill

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GTman said:
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Originally Posted by ibeeballin
I'm just worried what led CPJ to his success will be his demise. Football is evolving on all levels, and I just see him resisting the changes.


Finally someone else recognizes. Stubborness can be a disguise for lack of knowledge.

CPJ knows the option. Period. He lacks the understanding for running a major college program.
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So, let me get this straight. We need to 'evolve' in order to be better. If we don't 'evolve', the Paul Johnson is stubborn and can't run a major college football program. That sums up the two posts.

Isn't running the option 'evolving' for GT? We've succeeded on offense at GT only when we've run an offense that was counter to what most other people are running. The only times we've had good offenses here are when we had OC's that were counter to the prevailing winds of college football - Fridge and Paul Johnson.

What you're seeing is evolution. Given the fact that we're not going to pull 5-star QB's here anyway, our evolution is moving to an offense that does not require us have a 5-star QB to win championships. We can have a 4-star athletic QB win us championships.

The fact that we run the option is an evolution; it's counter to what other people are doing, and it provides us with an advantage. Quite honestly, the main issue with our team is defense rather than offense, anyway.

Is it not plainly clear? Our offense helps us to win games, it's not a hinderance to us. We were able to grap a 4-star QB this year because of the offense we run, not in spite of it. The year before, Vad Lee was an ESPN top-150 player, and he came here because of the offense.

Would I like us to pull in a higher number of 4-star offensive skill position players? Yes. But we're still able to attract good players, and we've made unheralded guys look really good in this offense.

On the "program building" side, if I look at our recruiting as a whole CPJ has done a much better job than the previous staff. He's had more 4-star recruits and much, much fewer 2-star guys coming through the door. There is room to do better, of course, but he's done a better job.
 
TechPhi97 said:
So, let me get this straight. We need to 'evolve' in order to be better. If we don't 'evolve', the Paul Johnson is stubborn and can't run a major college football program. That sums up the two posts.

Isn't running the option 'evolving' for GT? We've succeeded on offense at GT only when we've run an offense that was counter to what most other people are running. The only times we've had good offenses here are when we had OC's that were counter to the prevailing winds of college football - Fridge and Paul Johnson.

What you're seeing is evolution. Given the fact that we're not going to pull 5-star QB's here anyway, our evolution is moving to an offense that does not require us have a 5-star QB to win championships. We can have a 4-star athletic QB win us championships.

The fact that we run the option is an evolution; it's counter to what other people are doing, and it provides us with an advantage. Quite honestly, the main issue with our team is defense rather than offense, anyway.

Is it not plainly clear? Our offense helps us to win games, it's not a hinderance to us. We were able to grap a 4-star QB this year because of the offense we run, not in spite of it. The year before, Vad Lee was an ESPN top-150 player, and he came here because of the offense.

Would I like us to pull in a higher number of 4-star offensive skill position players? Yes. But we're still able to attract good players, and we've made unheralded guys look really good in this offense.

On the "program building" side, if I look at our recruiting as a whole CPJ has done a much better job than the previous staff. He's had more 4-star recruits and much, much fewer 2-star guys coming through the door. There is room to do better, of course, but he's done a better job.
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good post
 
TechPhi97 said:
On the "program building" side, if I look at our recruiting as a whole CPJ has done a much better job than the previous staff. He's had more 4-star recruits and much, much fewer 2-star guys coming through the door. There is room to do better, of course, but he's done a better job.
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Orwin Smith = 2*
Ray Beno = 2*
Tony Zenon = 2*
Zack Laskey = 2*

We've had 17 2* players enter since 2008, or about 4 per year. This is not bad production.
 
Peter King seems to think Stephen Hill was "The Man" at the combine.....says he may go 1st Round??

Quote from CNNSI.com:

Stephen Hill (who?) was The Man this weekend. The Georgia Tech receiver said he wanted to be the 6-4 player who plays like he's 5-10 -- a quick guy in and out of cuts who can get off pressure at the line of scrimmage. Hill did more than that. He ran a 4.36-second 40-yard dash and made the most impressive catch of the day Sunday, when the wideouts worked inside Lucas Oil Stadium, a diving catch in which he laid out and caught the ball at the end of his fingertips. At 6-4 and 215 pounds, his speed -- tied for the fastest 40 of the weekend -- surprised scouts. His 2011 season was odd. He didn't have a 100-yard receiving game in his last nine games; only twice did he catch more than three balls in a game. In three seasons, he caught only 49 passes ... but he did average 25.5 yards per catch in his career. Now he'll spend the two months before the draft trying to prove he can be a complete receiver instead of just a sideline-streaker.

The receiver order: Looks like Justin Blackmon and Michael Floyd of Notre Dame will be the only wideouts in round one, unless Hill sneaks in there. Reuben Randle of LSU and Rutgers' Mohamed Sanu (the Bucs and new coach Greg Schiano want him) could go 4-5 unless Baylor's Kendall Wright overcomes a lousy combine.


And another link showing Hill maybe getting into 1st round:
http://cnnsi.com/2012/football/nfl/...ephen.hill/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a9
 
Mike and Mike named him as the hit of the combine as well. I think GT just makes men who can produce right out of college--cause anything's better than being in class at Tech.
 
TechPhi97 said:
On the "program building" side, if I look at our recruiting as a whole CPJ has done a much better job than the previous staff. He's had more 4-star recruits and much, much fewer 2-star guys coming through the door. There is room to do better, of course, but he's done a better job.
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This is the only part of your post I took issue with. I think as a whole we are doing a better job recruiting (overall). We aren't doing a better job with the top tier (4 star or better) recruits thought. Just look at the number of four star or better players we've had on scout since 2002.

2002 - 2
2003 - 2
2004 - 2
2005 - 2
2006 - 1
2007 - 9
2008 - 1
2009 - 4
2010 - 3
2011 - 0
2012 - 2

We've basically averaged 2 four star recruits per year, not counting 2007. Even taking 2009 as CPJ's first recruiting class, we've averaged 2.25 four star recruits per year. Small sample size? Yes. And we've struck out on a number of close calls.

Whatever way you slice it, we haven't been burning up the recruiting trail. The biggest difference, imo, is the percentage of 2*s we got under Gailey versus now.
 
For reference, same numbers on Rivals. Shows a modest increase of 1.7 top tier recruits / year (not counting 2007) to 2.25 top tier recruits / year.

2002 - 3
2003 - 2
2004 - 1
2005 - 0
2006 - 1
2007 - 8
2008 - 1
2009 - 1
2010 - 5
2011 - 1
2012 - 2
 
Legal Jacket said:
For reference, same numbers on Rivals. Shows a modest increase of 1.7 top tier recruits / year (not counting 2007) to 2.25 top tier recruits / year.

2002 - 3
2003 - 2
2004 - 1
2005 - 0
2006 - 1
2007 - 8
2008 - 1
2009 - 1
2010 - 5
2011 - 1
2012 - 2
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Why wouldn't you count 2007? It happened...
 
MtownJacket said:
Why wouldn't you count 2007? It happened...
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Statistically speaking, when averaging aren't you supposed to disregard outliers?

(by that same token, 2010 might also qualify though)
 
It is interesting to watch this scenario unfold considering recent drafts. Everyone knows that Hill is talented and everyone expected to see more than flashes over the last few seasons, but for one reason or another we didn't see consistent greatness from him.

I saw Billick on NFL network during the combine on Saturday and he had some good points about the emphasis that is put on the draft and how it is so unrelated to football in ways. He says it is an opportunity for athletes to confirm and at times make up for field performance. The thing that he finds disturbing about it is that it drives athletes to learn drills and be good at executing the drills instead of using the time to become better football players. He also noted that players often are hurt by trying to turn the drills into football instead of performing them simply as drills with the measurables in mind.

I am very impressed by Hill's recognition of this opportunity and that he must have prepared well for it knowing that it may very well be one of the biggest days in his life. Hill also impressed by speaking well of Tech and of his experience here. Whether this is Hill's maturity or receiving good council, it is a good sign for his future. This is such a stark contrast from what we have seen from JD. In his case he showed much more on the field but then chose not to fully invest himself in the combine and has had numerous unflattering things to say about GT since. We rode him to two very successful seasons in 2008 and 2009 which cannot be ignored or forgotten.

Hill was projected as 3rd to 4th round based on his film (GT) and potentially late first round on his combine. I am guessing that his efforts will prompt further scrutiny of his film which will result in a second round selection after confirming that he still may lack the concentration necessary at the next level and highlight his limited route running experience. Dwyer was a 1st round selection based on his film and stats (while at GT), but his own personal effort (combine/weight) resulted in sliding all the way down to the late rounds.

I will always remember the effort that both of these gentlemen put forth on the field for GT, respect their accomplishments and appreciate what they have done for their program.
 
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TangoHotelWhiskeyGolf said:
It is interesting to watch this scenario unfold considering how recent drafts. Everyone knows that Hill is talented and everyone expected to see more than flashes over the last few seasons, but for one reason or another we didn't see consistent greatness from him.

I saw Billick on NFL network during the combine on Saturday and he had some good points about the emphasis that is put on the draft and how it is so unrelated to football in ways. He says it is an opportunity for athletes to confirm and at times make up for field performancGe. The thing that he finds disturbing about it is that it drives athletes to learn drills and be good at executing the drills instead of using the time to become better football players. He also noted that players often are hurt by trying to turn the drills into football instead of performing them simply as drills with the measurables in mind.

I am very impressed by Hill's recognition of this opportunity and that he must have prepared well for it knowing that it may very well be one of the biggest days in his life. Hill also impressed by speaking well of Tech and of his experience here. Whether this is Hill's maturity or receiving good council, it is a good sign for his future. This is such a stark contrast from what we have seen from JD. In his case he showed much more on the field but then chose not to fully invest himself in the combine and has had numerous unflattering things to say about GT since. We rode him to two very successful seasons in 2008 and 2009 which cannot be ignored or forgotten.

Hill was projected as 3rd to 4th round based on his film (GT) and potentially late first round on his combine. I am guessing that his efforts will prompt further scrutiny of his film which will result in a second round selection after confirming that he still may lack the concentration necessary at the next level and highlight his limited route running experience. Dwyer was a 1st round selection based on his film and stats (while at GT, but his own personal effort (combine/weight) resulted in sliding all the way down to the late rounds.

I will always remember the effort that both of these gentlemen put forth on the field for GT, respect their accomplishments and appreciate what they have done for their program.
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Well said
 
TangoHotelWhiskeyGolf said:
It is interesting to watch this scenario unfold considering recent drafts. Everyone knows that Hill is talented and everyone expected to see more than flashes over the last few seasons, but for one reason or another we didn't see consistent greatness from him.

I saw Billick on NFL network during the combine on Saturday and he had some good points about the emphasis that is put on the draft and how it is so unrelated to football in ways. He says it is an opportunity for athletes to confirm and at times make up for field performance. The thing that he finds disturbing about it is that it drives athletes to learn drills and be good at executing the drills instead of using the time to become better football players. He also noted that players often are hurt by trying to turn the drills into football instead of performing them simply as drills with the measurables in mind.

I am very impressed by Hill's recognition of this opportunity and that he must have prepared well for it knowing that it may very well be one of the biggest days in his life. Hill also impressed by speaking well of Tech and of his experience here. Whether this is Hill's maturity or receiving good council, it is a good sign for his future. This is such a stark contrast from what we have seen from JD. In his case he showed much more on the field but then chose not to fully invest himself in the combine and has had numerous unflattering things to say about GT since. We rode him to two very successful seasons in 2008 and 2009 which cannot be ignored or forgotten.

Hill was projected as 3rd to 4th round based on his film (GT) and potentially late first round on his combine. I am guessing that his efforts will prompt further scrutiny of his film which will result in a second round selection after confirming that he still may lack the concentration necessary at the next level and highlight his limited route running experience. Dwyer was a 1st round selection based on his film and stats (while at GT), but his own personal effort (combine/weight) resulted in sliding all the way down to the late rounds.

I will always remember the effort that both of these gentlemen put forth on the field for GT, respect their accomplishments and appreciate what they have done for their program.
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Well said. Might I add that you know as well as I that some guys are practice players and some guys are gamers. Coaches and players know the difference. Some can run the drills and look all-world in practice, but can't get it done in a game. Some guys get ridden mecilessly in practice, but you put the ball in their hands with another team staring at them, and 90% of the time they just make the play. I'll never understand why it is, but some of the best players I ever saw on Wednesday never got it done on Saturday.
 
stinger78 said:
Well said. Might I add that you know as well as I that some guys are practice players and some guys are gamers. Coaches and players know the difference. Some can run the drills and look all-world in practice, but can't get it done in a game. Some guys get ridden mecilessly in practice, but you put the ball in their hands with another team staring at them, and 90% of the time they just make the play. I'll never understand why it is, but some of the best players I ever saw on Wednesday never got it done on Saturday.
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This does happen, it's true.

But it's not the norm.

Most guys who are the studs on game day are also the very same guys who are the studs in practice.

It would make for a very interesting statitical analysis, only it would be very hard to quantify practice performance.
 
MtownJacket said:
Why wouldn't you count 2007? It happened...
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Not necessarily an answer, but its pretty common knowledge that after a couple of weak recruiting years, Gailey had several unused "exceptions" as well as approval on a couple of more "exceptions" that he could use in the 2007 class because overall the talent level was extremely high in the State of GA. This was a major factor in why we had such a great recruiting class. In every year prior to 2007 and every year after, we have not had the same amount of leniency as far as taking athletes that would otherwise not get into GT.
 
ibeeballin said:
LOL Herm most impressed w/ Stevo hands
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Herm Edwards may be the most annoying least knowledgable person on ESPN. The guy sounds like a complete jackass everytime he opens his mouth. Probably why he was a crappy coach.
 
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