CPJ Mad Bro

JJacket

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No. I want Collins to be successful. I do not understand why everyone cannot be in the GT camp and not divided with loyalties for one coach or another. I liked CPJ. Saw him do things at Tech I never thought I'd see again. Doesn't mean that I want Collins to fail. With that said, I'm afraid we've hired a coach in training. His recruiting has been good but not what I expected from all that I read upon his hire. I do not believe that he is a good game day football coach. I get frustrated watching the same fundamental mistakes with clock management, too many men on the field, lack of discipline causing penalties, etc. but that doesn't mean that I want him to fail. I said it early on and still believe it to be true that Collins will certainly recruit better than CPJ but will not win as many games. Time will tell and as a Tech fan, I will be happy if I am wrong.
I am so glad my ST's aren't near you.
 

RamblinWreck92

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No. I want Collins to be successful. I do not understand why everyone cannot be in the GT camp and not divided with loyalties for one coach or another. I liked CPJ. Saw him do things at Tech I never thought I'd see again. Doesn't mean that I want Collins to fail. With that said, I'm afraid we've hired a coach in training. His recruiting has been good but not what I expected from all that I read upon his hire. I do not believe that he is a good game day football coach. I get frustrated watching the same fundamental mistakes with clock management, too many men on the field, lack of discipline causing penalties, etc. but that doesn't mean that I want him to fail. I said it early on and still believe it to be true that Collins will certainly recruit better than CPJ but will not win as many games. Time will tell and as a Tech fan, I will be happy if I am wrong.
You're a terrible fan who simply wants boring-AF option football, and its annual 6 wins back. Collins' recruiting has been better than any coach in the 21st century. Given the empty cupboard he had, his first real recruiting class was one of the great recruiting jobs in the history of college football.

Go back to Southern and take your stupid QB Option keeper with you.
 

BuzzLaw

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I get it. But anyone who didn’t realize what we were in store for with the transition was fooling themselves.
I realize transitioning from PJ to a “pro”’offense will result in some tough times. I just don’t blame PJ for that. And everyone is hoping GC’s takes us to Orange Bowls. It’s a transition, plain and simple. So blame the transition for the losses, not PJ.

We’re giving Chan credit for PJ’s wins and blaming PJ for GC’s losses. What the hell messed up world is that?
 

gtchief

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I realize transitioning from PJ to a “pro”’offense will result in some tough times. I just don’t blame PJ for that. And everyone is hoping GC’s takes us to Orange Bowls. It’s a transition, plain and simple. So blame the transition for the losses, not PJ.

We’re giving Chan credit for PJ’s wins and blaming PJ for GC’s losses. What the hell messed up world is that?
It's not complicated. You work with what you're given
 

GoGATech

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I’ll never understand the hate on a GT coach that brought us some of the best seasons we’ve had over the last 30 years.

GC should be judged on his own merits, not by tearing down PJ.
I agree with this, bust most I see aren't out on a mission to tear down CPJ. It's the CPJ lovers that are trying to tear down CGC by doing exactly what you say, not judging him on his merits but rather comparing him to CPJ. Then facts get brought into the equation and some people take offense to that and feel as it's hating on CPJ.
 

GoGATech

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It’s a transition, plain and simple. So blame the transition for the losses, not PJ.
You're correct here, the transition is the major factor in our W/L over the past two seasons, but it would have been easier with a roster more comparable to what we're building now, or what CPJ was given when he started. That is on him. Better talent could've changed the outcome of 1-2 games the last 2 seasons if not more. What would everyone's thoughts be if we had won 4-5 games year 1 and say 5 or 6 in year 2? Probably be feeling much different right now about CGC.
 

WracerX

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You're correct here, the transition is the major factor in our W/L over the past two seasons, but it would have been easier with a roster more comparable to what we're building now, or what CPJ was given when he started. That is on him. Better talent could've changed the outcome of 1-2 games the last 2 seasons if not more. What would everyone's thoughts be if we had won 4-5 games year 1 and say 5 or 6 in year 2? Probably be feeling much different right now about CGC.
CGC could have those extra 2 wins per season had he tailored the offense to what he had available. I’m guessing he felt he could transition faster by putting his offense in and then sell it to recruits.

I’m not sure anyone is that down on CGC yet. We’ve got to win more, obviously. And we need to show some QB and RB development on offense.
 

smokey_wasp

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CGC could have those extra 2 wins per season had he tailored the offense to what he had available. I’m guessing he felt he could transition faster by putting his offense in and then sell it to recruits.

I’m not sure anyone is that down on CGC yet. We’ve got to win more, obviously. And we need to show some QB and RB development on offense.
I dunno. I certainly think we could have beat Citadel with Tobias just running keepers, but beyond that, I am not sure. Regardless, I think ripping off the bandaid was the way to go. Wouldn't want to be just getting started with basic pass blocking in year 3.

I saw pretty good development on offense last year; granted starting from an extremely low baseline. If we make half as big of a jump this year (and can kick FGs), we should be in good shape.
 

aeromech

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I agree with this, bust most I see aren't out on a mission to tear down CPJ. It's the CPJ lovers that are trying to tear down CGC by doing exactly what you say, not judging him on his merits but rather comparing him to CPJ. Then facts get brought into the equation and some people take offense to that and feel as it's hating on CPJ.
Sorry but no. I see people here on a real mission to tear down CPJ, and they've been on that mission for at least the past 2 seasons and some longer than that. The "facts" you are talking about is the argument that CPJ inherited a 'can't lose' 'stack roster' with 'top 10 GT all time players' at every position. The other "fact" being that CGC took over a roster of deplorables.

The truth is CPJ's scheme and coaching was able to cover up some serious deficiencies in the 2008 & 2009 roster, make a running back look like "the next Bo Jackson" (whatever happened to BOR) and inspired us start a Heisman Campaign for Safety that was playing QB. As a result the transition to the option went much smoother.

On the other hand, CGC appears to have decided the cold turkey approach was appropriate and didn't try to fit a system to the players he had; but instead decided to put square pegs into round holes. This made the roster look worst than it probably actually was. Hopefully that approach starts to pay off this year.
 
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smokey_wasp

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One needn't look further than the length of Collins' contract to see what the plan was. TStan didn’t go with 7 years because he is just a generous guy. Collins has done what he was hired to do so far; get us out of the flexbone asap and improve recruiting. The record starts counting this year. Believing that the demolition phase wasn't going to happen, regardless of who got hired, was unrealistic. Those who wanted a smoother transition should take it up with the AD.
 
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GoGATech

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Sorry but no. I see people here on a real mission to tear down CPJ, and they've been on that mission for at least the past 2 seasons and some longer than that. The "facts" you are talking about is the argument that CPJ inherited a 'can't lose' 'stack roster' with 'top 10 GT all time players' at every position. The other "fact" being that CGC took over a roster of deplorables.

The truth is CPJ's scheme and coaching was able to cover up some serious deficiencies in the 2008 & 2009 roster, make a running back look like "the next Bo Jackson" (whatever happened to BOR) and inspired us start a Heisman Campaign for Safety that was playing QB. As a result the transition to the option went much smoother.

On the other hand, CGC appears to have decided the cold turkey approach was appropriate and didn't try to fit a system to the players he had; but instead decided to put square pegs into round holes. This made the roster look worst than it probably actually was. Hopefully that approach starts to pay off this year.
Yes there are certainly some on here that try nothing but to tear down CPJ. Likewise there are also some that try nothing but to tear down CGC. My point is I think most people are somewhere in the middle. There is also no need to put "facts" in quotes. They are just that - facts. It is 100% factual that the roster CPJ inherited had more NFL talent on it than likely any we've had before. Even if there were some holes in it, having multiple NFL guys in there helps cover for them. IIRC, so far there is only one player in the NFL that CGC inherited. Possibility of a couple this year, one being a punter.

As for the argument about CPJ's offense being what made Dwyer look like the "next Bo Jackson," how come it didn't make anybody else look like that if Dwyers talent had nothing to do with it? And you also keep saying "playing a safety at qb." Nesbitt was not recruited to be a safety. He played qb in HS and was recruited at that position, so don't act like CPJ just took some random chicken-öööö and made chicken salad out of it. Nesbitt was our next QB regardless of if CPJ was the coach or not. Sure he went to NFL as a safety, but how many of CPJ's qb's are in the league as a QB?
 

aeromech

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Yes there are certainly some on here that try nothing but to tear down CPJ. Likewise there are also some that try nothing but to tear down CGC. My point is I think most people are somewhere in the middle. There is also no need to put "facts" in quotes. They are just that - facts. It is 100% factual that the roster CPJ inherited had more NFL talent on it than likely any we've had before. Even if there were some holes in it, having multiple NFL guys in there helps cover for them. IIRC, so far there is only one player in the NFL that CGC inherited. Possibility of a couple this year, one being a punter.

As for the argument about CPJ's offense being what made Dwyer look like the "next Bo Jackson," how come it didn't make anybody else look like that if Dwyers talent had nothing to do with it? And you also keep saying "playing a safety at qb." Nesbitt was not recruited to be a safety. He played qb in HS and was recruited at that position, so don't act like CPJ just took some random chicken-öööö and made chicken salad out of it. Nesbitt was our next QB regardless of if CPJ was the coach or not. Sure he went to NFL as a safety, but how many of CPJ's qb's are in the league as a QB?
Nesbitt wasn't our next QB regardless, Renfree most likely was. Nesbitt finished his football career as a safety, and looking back now the Heisman Campaign was a bit comical.

Dwyer looked like much better in that offense than TChoice looked in Gailey's offense. I think there is pretty strong argument TChoice was a better talent. CPJ's offense even made Synjyn Days, and Anthony Allen look better than they were. I am not the only one that thinks that, check at this NBC Sports write up:

Cowboys signed Georgia Tech RB Synjyn Days.

Days (6'1/232) was a rotational back in the Yellow Jackets' triple option, finishing his career with 255 carries for 1,396 yards (5.47 YPC) and 18 TDs. He only caught seven passes in college. Davis showed lackluster athleticism at his Pro Day, running 4.60/4.61 with a 9-foot-8 broad jump. Like Anthony Allen and Jonathan Dwyer before him, Days' college production was likely the product of Paul Johnson's system. We projected Days as a possible No. 3 back/special teamer before the draft. The fact that he landed in Dallas makes him slightly interesting.
So yes, that offense absolutely did make others look like that; but by then everyone was on to it.
 

Techbert

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I realize transitioning from PJ to a “pro”’offense will result in some tough times. I just don’t blame PJ for that. And everyone is hoping GC’s takes us to Orange Bowls. It’s a transition, plain and simple. So blame the transition for the losses, not PJ.

We’re giving Chan credit for PJ’s wins and blaming PJ for GC’s losses. What the hell messed up world is that?
I don't blame PJ for the transition difficulties; I blame the administrators who hired him.

I do blame PJ for bad faith recruiting choices and bad faith recruiting effort. It is not an unhappy accident that his last year he graduated some nice offensive and defensive line pieces and there was a drought in the pipeline behind them. I do blame PJ that so many players transferred or otherwise left on his watch to gut the recruiting classes he assembled before he left, which is why we have not had anything close to a functional senior class since he retired.

I do blame PJ for a 90%+ failure rate for assembling a functional defense and leaving behind a sieve. I do blame PJ for subpar performance against good competition and subpar performance during bowl season for most of his tenure.

He had upper class players when he arrived. He had an extremely talented pool of young players when he arrived. What he left behind was in no way shape or form the same. He had his best multi-year results when he had someone else's players, despite the rhetoric that he needed specialized athletes for his specialized offense.

If PJ left behind even a normal PJ team, we'd be much better off than we have been, so yeah, a percentage of our bad record the last two years can be laid at his feet and not just on the transition. And it annoys me that termites make the job of the new guy so much harder by blaming him for things outside his control.
 

ibeeballin

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Nesbitt wasn't our next QB regardless, Renfree most likely was. Nesbitt finished his football career as a safety, and looking back now the Heisman Campaign was a bit comical.

Dwyer looked like much better in that offense than TChoice looked in Gailey's offense. I think there is pretty strong argument TChoice was a better talent. CPJ's offense even made Synjyn Days, and Anthony Allen look better than they were. I am not the only one that thinks that, check at this NBC Sports write up:



So yes, that offense absolutely did make others look like that; but by then everyone was on to it.
I never laughed so hard in my life at a post so absurd. Absolutely no one will tell you Choice was better talent than Dwyer and on limited touches out of a prostyle I-formation AA was averaging 4.7/rush
 

JJacket

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I never laughed so hard in my life at a post so absurd. Absolutely no one will tell you Choice was better talent than Dwyer and on limited touches out of a prostyle I-formation AA was averaging 4.7/rush
Dwyer had the potential to be a Heisman contending running back. His HS film is still the best I have ever seen from a GT athlete. So much potential.
 

cyclejacket

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For a bunch of engineers, ya'll sure spent a lot of timing arguing over subjective topics with no clear answer.
 

Ed Sawyer

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I never laughed so hard in my life at a post so absurd. Absolutely no one will tell you Choice was better talent than Dwyer and on limited touches out of a prostyle I-formation AA was averaging 4.7/rush
Every B-back Johnson had that had 100+ career carries ended up with a career YPC average higher than Tashard Choice, William Bell, PJ Daniels, CJ Williams, Robert Lavette, Sean Gregory, and Joe Burns. This includes people like Preston Lyons, Zack Laskey, and David Sims.

I don’t think it’s laughable to think the scheme made Allen and Dwyer more productive. Hell, Dwyer had a good freshman year, averaging 5.3 YPC in Gailey’s pro-style offense and then Johnson’s scheme increased his YPC 33 percent the next year.
 

aeromech

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I never laughed so hard in my life at a post so absurd. Absolutely no one will tell you Choice was better talent than Dwyer and on limited touches out of a prostyle I-formation AA was averaging 4.7/rush
Choice averaged 5.3/rush in 2007 playing with a bad hamstring most of the season on a team that got Gailey fired, in an offense that was fairly standard. You want to take a wild guess at what Dwyer's yards/rush was in the exact same offense playing healthy? Dwyer's stats blew up in 2008 when people were seeing the TO for the first time and started coming back into focus some in 2009 (even though most teams were still trying to figure it out). Dwyer was a great talent; but he was no Bo Jackson, and I'm shaking my head at the argument he deserved the Heisman. There are valid arguments on both sides that one was better than the other; but claiming the comparison makes you laugh is silly.
 
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