Genuine Question

[RamblinWreck92]

I big cried it because it had the "woe is me" undertones that you don't believe GT FB can ever have good Players and nice things so our only saving grace is to dive at the opponents kneecaps for 60 snaps every Game while burning Clock to shorten the Game, and hope that that is enough to win close or not get blown out

There are plenty of academic qualifiers within a 2Hr drive of our campus, we have to find a way to be more attractive to them for them to want to play for GT.

We do that by becoming a 9-win Program, then a 10-win Program while sending a decent amount of Players to the NFL.

Sending Players to that Sunday League is what makes your CFB Program attractive to HS FB Players.

None of that undertone was here until PJ's arrival in 2008. Then began a decade of excuse-making re:recruiting. The one thing CGC has done since his hire is happily öööö on that BS notion that it's not possible to recruit at a high-level to GT anymore.

You never hear the great coaches say "IIWII".

 

[whiskey clear]

I big cried it because it had the "woe is me" undertones that you don't believe GT FB can ever have good Players and nice things so our only saving grace is to dive at the opponents kneecaps for 60 snaps every Game while burning Clock to shorten the Game, and hope that that is enough to win close or not get blown out

There are plenty of academic qualifiers within a 2Hr drive of our campus, we have to find a way to be more attractive to them for them to want to play for GT.

We do that by becoming a 9-win Program, then a 10-win Program while sending a decent amount of Players to the NFL.

Sending Players to that Sunday League is what makes your CFB Program attractive to HS FB Players.

Collins is doing a relatively good job recruiting. It’s the one area he has exceeded my expectations. But if you want Tech to become a pipeline you better hope Tech is willing to pour more money and effort into the program. Institute is still spending like a MAC program while fans are demanding elite. Tech hasn’t shown the want to. I don’t see many signs that is changing. If you think Collins is the guy I’d suggest you lobby the admin to support him adequately.

 

[PressManCoverage]

Collins is doing a relatively good job recruiting. It’s the one area he has exceeded my expectations. But if you want Tech to become a pipeline you better hope Tech is willing to pour more money and effort into the program. Institute is still spending like a MAC program while fans are demanding elite. Tech hasn’t shown the want to. I don’t see many signs that is changing. If you think Collins is the guy I’d suggest you lobby the admin to support him adequately.

We have 1 huge advantage that is more important than Money ---- geography, CFB Players usually choose to play within a 4 Hr drive of where they grew up, many prefer 2 hrs.

They are out there , we have to convince them that their NFL Dreams can materialize at GT.

 

[Olgoldandwhie]

Rlaphie was a great offensive coach and even won at Maryland...........He would have fit in as HC

He was a heckuva coach. He used multiple sets and kept the defense off balance. I never will forget when we lined up several times in the wishbone near the goal line.

 

[whiskey clear]

What’s your problem, dickbag? The announced attendance was 36K and change, and several people (not just me) have said it was the biggest crowd at BDS so far this season. Anybody that goes to games can tell you that we have late arriving crowds, and last week was no exception. The fact that a lot of people left early in a blowout should come as no surprise.

So why would you trust a couple of cherry-picked photos with no indication of when they were taken that only show parts of the stadium? Here’s one that shows more of the stadium taken a few minutes before kickoff, and somebody else posted one recently that showed all of the west stands.

Here’s one from the KSU game at about the same point in time.

Believe what you want, and eat a bag of dicks while you do it.

JRjr

If he ate the whole bag it would leave nothing for you. And we all know how disappointed that would make you.

 

[QuadF]

Can someone explain why we're talking about coaching vs. players as if the answer for winning or losing is one or the other? To me it is obviously both, but with players weighted more heavily. Of course every once and a while there are upsets and out-scheming leads to an unexpected win. But...that's why they are called upsets, becuase most of the time the team that is supposed to win "on paper" actually does win (IMO because they have better players).

I'm inclined to agree with your point, but I think it's oversimplified:

Coaches are the ones who lead players to improve performance.

"Better on paper" is subjective and isnt the most reliable metric.

I suspect a big part of what muddies the issue is that the talent gap isn't that big for a lot of the teams, so GameDay seems to be more an issue of scheming around the strengths and weaknesses.

Any coach can win with "better" talent; good coaches can effectively coach up & utilize the talent they have.

 

[GT98]

big cried it because it had the "woe is me" undertones that you don't believe GT FB can ever have good Players and nice things so our only saving grace is to dive at the opponents kneecaps for 60 snaps every

Nope. I clearly pointed out the both Friedgen and CPJ had the offenses outperform similar talent with superior play calling and schemes. Didn’t always work, but those guys got it done quite a bit.

I do not care what scheme or offense GT runs. I do care when the coaching staff is poor. I also gave credit to Collins for a nice uptick in recruiting. Hope that he smashes it here. Read that again to get it in your thick skull.

My pause is that I do not think that the coaching is very good yet. I think that Collins will be successful here IF he can get a really good OC to help design and scheme to get guys like Gibbs more touches in space. Running up the gut with a poor line Isn’t a good idea.

Again, you stated that all coaching is substantially equal, which is clearly is not.

 

[PressManCoverage]

Nope. I clearly pointed out the both Friedgen and CPJ had the offenses outperform similar talent with superior play calling and schemes. Didn’t always work, but those guys got it done quite a bit.

I do not care what scheme or offense GT runs. I do care when the coaching staff is poor. I also gave credit to Collins for a nice uptick in recruiting. Hope that he smashes it here. Read that again to get it in your thick skull.

My pause is that I do not think that the coaching is very good yet. I think that Collins will be successful here IF he can get a really good OC to help design and scheme to get guys like Gibbs more touches in space. Running up the gut with a poor line Isn’t a good idea.

Again, you stated that all coaching is substantially equal, which is clearly is not.

If you go to our practices & classroom sessions, they would look a lot like the one's at Bama led by Saban & his staff, ergo my theory that Coaching is substantially equal

CBK didn't coach our OL to make those errors we saw last Saturday, CBK teaches our OL the same fundamentals & techniques that he taught his OLs at Bama, but the results on the field look a lot different, that is due to the raw talent of the Players, better Players make you look like a better Coach, especially when you teach both groups the same exact thing.

Also, if you never run up the gut, you make it much easier for the opposing Def to stop everything else you want to do, you have to do a little of everything to make the opposing Def play you honestly.

I'll double down, the majority of Coaching is substantially equal as long as it is at the same level, P5 guys are about the same as P5 guys Saban included.

I mean seriously, do you think Kirby is that smart of a HC, or does he have better Players than every Team, except maybe 3 to 4 Teams?

 

[Liberty]

If you go to our practices & classroom sessions, they would look a lot like the one's at Bama led by Saban & his staff, ergo my theory that Coaching is substantially equal

You ever seen a video of a Saban practice? There is no ööööing around, at all.

 

[PressManCoverage]

You ever seen a video of a Saban practice? There is no ööööing around, at all.

Yes.

I understand that.

They all run the same drills at pace and intensity, with air horns telling the Players to move to the next drill, just like they do at the other 125+ FBS programs

There's no BS'ing around at any FBS college practice.

You think Bama runs special practices, with special drills, where Saban blows a special whistle and that's why they Play so well?

Lemme help you out here, they have much better players than everyone and more of them.

The important video, isn't the Practice Video of Bama, it's the Video of NSD when all their stud Recruits are doing the Hat Game where they act like it's a Surprise they are going to Bama, when their commitment was sealed long ago when the Bag changed hands.

 

[vapspwi]

If he ate the whole bag it would leave nothing for you. And we all know how disappointed that would make you.

Ooh, really got me with that one!

JRjr

 

[vapspwi]

If that was the biggest crowd of the year so far….enthusiasm is WAY down this year.

It seems that way. I think there’s an attendance thread around currently. The announced crowds have been like (from memory, don’t shoot me) 31k to 37k, with UNC the highest and KSU the lowest.

The losing is taking a toll, but coming out of Covid is probably also taking a toll with our older fanbase - we’ll see how much it rebounds (people staying away this year vs people dead or realizing that they don’t really need to come to games).

JRjr

 

[QuadF]

I'll double down, the majority of Coaching is substantially equal as long as it is at the same level, P5 guys are about the same as P5 guys Saban included.

So why aren't places that always recruit well (unc, fsu, ut) currently dominating? If head coaches are just recruiters (since coaches have such parity) and cgc recruits better than cpj, why can't he win more than 3 games yet? Why is UGA always preseason number 1 and never post season #1?

 

[gtchief]

So why aren't places that always recruit well (unc, fsu, ut) currently dominating? If head coaches are just recruiters (since coaches have such parity) and cgc recruits better than cpj, why can't he win more than 3 games yet? Why is UGA always preseason number 1 and never post season #1?

Not saying it's the definitive answer, but the S&C program comes to mind. Bowden had a legendary guy for years that won multiple awards, who happened to come to UG with Richt. He said at the time that FSU had the better team but UG was a better program all the way back in 2001 or whenever. Most of it was probably just blowing smoke up people's asses but it makes you wonder if he knew something.

 

[cyptomcat]

Collins is doing a relatively good job recruiting. It’s the one area he has exceeded my expectations. But if you want Tech to become a pipeline you better hope Tech is willing to pour more money and effort into the program. Institute is still spending like a MAC program while fans are demanding elite. Tech hasn’t shown the want to. I don’t see many signs that is changing. If you think Collins is the guy I’d suggest you lobby the admin to support him adequately.

Collins get $3 million a year. MAC coaches are gonna be around $1 million a year. Heck, Key is probably making about as much as some MAC head coaches.

We are spending like an ACC school...

 

[QuadF]

Not saying it's the definitive answer, but the S&C program comes to mind. Bowden had a legendary guy for years that won multiple awards, who happened to come to UG with Richt. He said at the time that FSU had the better team but UG was a better program all the way back in 2001 or whenever. Most of it was probably just blowing smoke up people's asses but it makes you wonder if he knew something.

I'd bet that's a component, but not sure how much. I'm just making the case that saying p5 coaching is more or less equal seems quite contrary to available evidence.

 

[WracerX]

Maryland wins 2 years before Fridge 10. Two following years 21.

Saban (bama) 16/19
(lsu) 7/18
(msu) 6/12

Meyer (uf) 15/22

That isn’t a significant change in talent over 2 years. That is coaching. Some of it is play calling. Some is fundamentals coaching. Some of it is scheme.

There is a lot that goes into winning college games. You can be deficient in one area and balance with another. To be successful long term you have to be balanced though.

Year in and year out, Miami has been a top team in recruiting. The top 2 in the acc coastal every year I would bet. They have played in 1 acccg. GT has finished behind Miami every year in recruiting and been in 4 acccg. VT has been far more balanced with regards to coaching/recruiting/program than both and has far more appearances.

 

[GT98]

If you go to our practices & classroom sessions, they would look a lot like the one's at Bama led by Saban & his staff, ergo my theory that Coaching is substantially equal

CBK didn't coach our OL to make those errors we saw last Saturday, CBK teaches our OL the same fundamentals & techniques that he taught his OLs at Bama, but the results on the field look a lot different, that is due to the raw talent of the Players, better Players make you look like a better Coach, especially when you teach both groups the same exact thing.

Also, if you never run up the gut, you make it much easier for the opposing Def to stop everything else you want to do, you have to do a little of everything to make the opposing Def play you honestly.

I'll double down, the majority of Coaching is substantially equal as long as it is at the same level, P5 guys are about the same as P5 guys Saban included.

I mean seriously, do you think Kirby is that smart of a HC, or does he have better Players than every Team, except maybe 3 to 4 Teams?

Of course, better players make any coach look better. And yes, in college football recuriting might be 70% of the game now. That remaining 30% matters. If the coaching was substantially equal, then why was Alabama not like they are now for the 90's and most of the 00's?

I also get that overwhelming talent advantage will overcome poor/average coaching quite a bit, in part due to the incredible disparity between college programs.

I understand that "running up the gut" is necessary in order to keep the D honest as well as to hopefully setup something later in the game. I haven't seen any such designs from Pnope. Inside the redzone when the field is compressed, doing something different or at least getting the talent in space would likely yield better results. Going to be hard to win more games this season when the team consistently stalls out in the redzone unless an opponent is unprepared like UNC was when Sims came in. The gamefilm is out on Sims now. Time for Pnope to adjust.

I guess that where we diverge here is that I do not think that GT will be on equal footing with the better teams on its schedule (Clemson/Ugag) on a consistent basis from a talent perspective. If were are to compete with them and presumably, get some wins, wouldn't a coaching advantage help narrow the talent gap? If the coaching is substantially equal--not just in teaching schemes/practice--then how do you think GT will win like we want as fans?

Hey, I hope that I'm wrong and Collins starts to consistently pull in top 15 recruiting classes here and GT just out talents most of its competition. In the meantime, I am hoping for a big OC upgrade for next season.

 

[GoGATech]

Collins get $3 million a year. MAC coaches are gonna be around $1 million a year. Heck, Key is probably making about as much as some MAC head coaches.

We are spending like an ACC school...

Hate to break it to you but that's a great big negative, ghost rider. We have thrown a lot more money at football recently but we are still waaaay behind. These numbers are from 2020. Can't find much data on the private schools so they aren't included with the assistants, but I also don't know how accurate the HC salary is for those either, so I italicized them. Either way, we are well towards the bottom end in all categories. The only category we are close in is OL coach, Brent Key makes $600k, and is the 2nd highest paid OL coach in the conference. He also holds the title of "Assistant Head Coach/Run Game Coordinator." For some reason Pitt's assistant coach salary data was not available either, but based on their HC salary, I would imagine their total salary is somewhere in the range of Louisville/Virginia.

ACC Public University Salaries:

Head Coach:
Dabo Swinney - Clemson - $8.32M
Justin Fuente - VT - $4.25M
Pat Narduzzi - Pitt - $4.08M
Bronco Mendenhall - Virginia - $3.84M
Mike Norvell - FSU - $3.53M
Mack Brown - UNC - $3.46M
Dino Babers - Syracuse - $3.21M **private
Dave Doeren - NC State - $3.13M
Geoff Collins - GT - $3.10M
Manny Diaz - Miami - $3.10M **private
Scott Satterfield - Louisville - $3.09M
Jeff Hafley - BC - $3.00M **private
David Cutcliffe - Duke - $2.78M **private
Dave Clawson - Wake Forest - $1.86M **private

Offensive Coordinator:
Tony Elliott - Clemson - $1.52M
Phil Longo - UNC - $825k
Dwayne Ledford - Louisville - $750k
Tim Beck - NC State - $639k
Kenny Dillingham - FSU - $616k
Robert Anae - Virginia - $608k
Brad Cornelsen - VT - $490k
Dave Patenaude - GT - $400k

Defensive Coordinator:
Brent Venables - Clemson - $2.16M
Jay Bateman - UNC - $825k
Adam Fuller - FSU - $788k
Bryan Brown - Louisville - $750k
Tony Gibson - NC State - $662k
Nick Howell - Virginia - $608k
Justin Hamilton - VT - $600k
Andrew Thacker - GT - $450k

Remaining Assistants Combined:
Clemson - $3.96M
FSU - $3.95M
UNC - $3.22M
Louisville - $3.06M
NC State - $2.66M
VT - $2.50M
GT - $2.39M
Virginia - $2.36M

Assistant Coaching Staff Total:
Clemson - $7.64M
FSU - $5.36M
UNC - $4.87M
Louisville - $4.56M
NC State - $3.96M
VT - $3.60M
Virginia - $3.57M
GT - $3.24M

Coaching Staff Total:
Clemson - $15.96M
FSU - $8.89M
UNC - $8.33M
VT - $7.85M
Louisville $7.65M
Virginia - $7.41M
NC State - $7.09M
GT - $6.34M

 

[cyptomcat]

Hate to break it to you but that's a great big negative, ghost rider. We have thrown a lot more money at football recently but we are still waaaay behind. These numbers are from 2020. Can't find much data on the private schools so they aren't included with the assistants, but I also don't know how accurate the HC salary is for those either, so I italicized them. Either way, we are well towards the bottom end in all categories. The only category we are close in is OL coach, Brent Key makes $600k, and is the 2nd highest paid OL coach in the conference. He also holds the title of "Assistant Head Coach/Run Game Coordinator." For some reason Pitt's assistant coach salary data was not available either, but based on their HC salary, I would imagine their total salary is somewhere in the range of Louisville/Virginia.

ACC Public University Salaries:

Head Coach:
Dabo Swinney - Clemson - $8.32M
Justin Fuente - VT - $4.25M
Pat Narduzzi - Pitt - $4.08M
Bronco Mendenhall - Virginia - $3.84M
Mike Norvell - FSU - $3.53M
Mack Brown - UNC - $3.46M
Dino Babers - Syracuse - $3.21M **private
Dave Doeren - NC State - $3.13M
Geoff Collins - GT - $3.10M
Manny Diaz - Miami - $3.10M **private
Scott Satterfield - Louisville - $3.09M
Jeff Hafley - BC - $3.00M **private
David Cutcliffe - Duke - $2.78M **private
Dave Clawson - Wake Forest - $1.86M **private

Offensive Coordinator:
Tony Elliott - Clemson - $1.52M
Phil Longo - UNC - $825k
Dwayne Ledford - Louisville - $750k
Tim Beck - NC State - $639k
Kenny Dillingham - FSU - $616k
Robert Anae - Virginia - $608k
Brad Cornelsen - VT - $490k
Dave Patenaude - GT - $400k

Defensive Coordinator:
Brent Venables - Clemson - $2.16M
Jay Bateman - UNC - $825k
Adam Fuller - FSU - $788k
Bryan Brown - Louisville - $750k
Tony Gibson - NC State - $662k
Nick Howell - Virginia - $608k
Justin Hamilton - VT - $600k
Andrew Thacker - GT - $450k

Remaining Assistants Combined:
Clemson - $3.96M
FSU - $3.95M
UNC - $3.22M
Louisville - $3.06M
NC State - $2.66M
VT - $2.50M
GT - $2.39M
Virginia - $2.36M

Assistant Coaching Staff Total:
Clemson - $7.64M
FSU - $5.36M
UNC - $4.87M
Louisville - $4.56M
NC State - $3.96M
VT - $3.60M
Virginia - $3.57M
GT - $3.24M

Coaching Staff Total:
Clemson - $15.96M
FSU - $8.89M
UNC - $8.33M
VT - $7.85M
Louisville $7.65M
Virginia - $7.41M
NC State - $7.09M
GT - $6.34M

ok, so we are paying the HC like ACC, but not the rest of the staff.

how does it compare to the MAC salaries?