I have some more coaching news

joeye said:
Someone please explain how oversigning above 85 works. Meaning, what happens if we sign 90 & we don’t get the attrition we’re expecting?
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Then you tell GT student athletes who you recruited with a "40 year plan" that you are revoking their scholarship. Sure, they can transfer to Kennesaw State, but you've still robbed them of the opportunity to get a GT degree. Either that or you tell a kid who's been committed to GT for months that you are pulling your offer at the last minute and they'll have to find somewhere else (after 99% of their options have disappeared).

Processing and roster management are just bullshit code words for ööööing kids over. I will lose a tremendous amount of respect for Geoff Collins if he starts doing that at Georgia Tech. Being up front about a player's future at GT is one thing - forcing them out is another altogether.
 
johncu said:
Then you tell GT student athletes who you recruited with a "40 year plan" that you are revoking their scholarship. Sure, they can transfer to Kennesaw State, but you've still robbed them of the opportunity to get a GT degree. Either that or you tell a kid who's been committed to GT for months that you are pulling your offer at the last minute and they'll have to find somewhere else (after 99% of their options have disappeared).

Processing and roster management are just bullshit code words for ööööing kids over. I will lose a tremendous amount of respect for Geoff Collins if he starts doing that at Georgia Tech. Being up front about a player's future at GT is one thing - forcing them out is another altogether.
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I understand his roster management as recruiting certain frames/sizes/weights/measurables (bench, 40, shuttle, vertical). Also, anticipate and encourage your best to go pro if they project well I'm the NFL Draft and refill the position with similar skill.
 
johncu said:
Then you tell GT student athletes who you recruited with a "40 year plan" that you are revoking their scholarship. Sure, they can transfer to Kennesaw State, but you've still robbed them of the opportunity to get a GT degree. Either that or you tell a kid who's been committed to GT for months that you are pulling your offer at the last minute and they'll have to find somewhere else (after 99% of their options have disappeared).

Processing and roster management are just bullshit code words for ööööing kids over. I will lose a tremendous amount of respect for Geoff Collins if he starts doing that at Georgia Tech. Being up front about a player's future at GT is one thing - forcing them out is another altogether.
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I agree with you on the surface but there are lots of different circumstances. Assume a kid redshirted, has a year of eligibility left but already has his degree. Why not encourage him to move on if he is sitting the bench?

The Stephenson kid who committed but did not sign. How long do you wait on him? Do you give him until noon on signing day? I mean if he signs with App. State at 4 PM on signing day, then what? I don’t understand waiting on a kid who did not sign in December.

As a rule I agree 100% with what you said above but there are lots of extenuating circumstances.
 
johncu said:
Then you tell GT student athletes who you recruited with a "40 year plan" that you are revoking their scholarship. Sure, they can transfer to Kennesaw State, but you've still robbed them of the opportunity to get a GT degree. Either that or you tell a kid who's been committed to GT for months that you are pulling your offer at the last minute and they'll have to find somewhere else (after 99% of their options have disappeared).

Processing and roster management are just bullshit code words for ööööing kids over. I will lose a tremendous amount of respect for Geoff Collins if he starts doing that at Georgia Tech. Being up front about a player's future at GT is one thing - forcing them out is another altogether.
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When, in the last 20 or so years, have we used all our ships?

We would have never been able to give a ship to a walk on if that were the case.
 
I think teams like Bama can oversign because they have A+ athletes beating down the door to get in. I do not believe Tech has this luxury. I believe Bama can handle the negativity oversigning conjures up, but I don't believe Tech will be able to.
 
texstinger said:
When, in the last 20 or so years, have we used all our ships?

We would have never been able to give a ship to a walk on if that were the case.
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PJ always kept a couple in the back pocket to reward walk ons or in case a transfer came through.
Very few places go all the way to 85. A lot of folks do what PJ did.
 
texstinger said:
When, in the last 20 or so years, have we used all our ships?

We would have never been able to give a ship to a walk on if that were the case.
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This is exactly the type of comment I was referring to. Are you advocating for oversigning? Would you support GT cutting players and revoking scholarships?
 
swampsting said:
PJ always kept a couple in the back pocket to reward walk ons or in case a transfer came through.
Very few places go all the way to 85. A lot of folks do what PJ did.
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Including Dabo Swinney, and I'd say Clemson does okay in the recruiting department.
 
thwg said:
I agree with you on the surface but there are lots of different circumstances. Assume a kid redshirted, has a year of eligibility left but already has his degree. Why not encourage him to move on if he is sitting the bench?

The Stephenson kid who committed but did not sign. How long do you wait on him? Do you give him until noon on signing day? I mean if he signs with App. State at 4 PM on signing day, then what? I don’t understand waiting on a kid who did not sign in December.

As a rule I agree 100% with what you said above but there are lots of extenuating circumstances.
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Agree with both of these, but that's not relevant to oversigning.
 
If a recruit does not sign in the early period you must assume he is not committed and continue to recruit for his position . You tell him that if you get a firm commit at his postion his scholarship may be gone depending what happens with attrition due to injuries, graduation, etc.
 
Well I hope the coaches aren't just sitting their holding the ship until signing day. Anyone that did not sign early is clearly not 100% committed. That's not oversigning
 
Let's not forget that we have had very few academic casualties of any significance for the past decade. For athletes at a place like Tech, that is phenomenal. I believe that a lot of oversigning is banking on kids not cutting it academically, which is probably more of a reality when you elect to take anyone that has athletic talent without much regard to what they have between their ears. I was at Tech during flunkgate, and I was wholesale unsurprised when several guys were suddenly ineligible, as I had interacted with them in the classroom. I firmly believe that the APR era really changed things for recruiting at Tech.
 
THWG2 said:
If a recruit does not sign in the early period you must assume he is not committed and continue to recruit for his position . You tell him that if you get a firm commit at his postion his scholarship may be gone depending what happens with attrition due to injuries, graduation, etc.
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Yep. If you're looking, so are we.
 
johncu said:
Agree with both of these, but that's not relevant to oversigning.
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I don't think oversigning (as you're defining it) happens nearly as often as you think. Coaches know it's bad business to make promises they can't deliver.

The thing is coaches have to recruit for months without having all the relevant info at hand as to the final number of available scholarships come signing day. Players have injuries of unknown seriousness, players debate transferring, players just quit playing sometimes. Sometimes they want to become cartoonists, if I remember correctly. To leave those scholarships empty is unfair to all the other players who are investing blood sweat and tears to be the best they can be.

I definitely agree that we shouldn't be pressuring kids to leave the team when they don't want to. But it also happens that players get signed, come to campus, and don't give it their all. To what extent does the coach have to just live with dead weight? Is it fair to let that kid 'take' a scholarship from another kid? Is it fair to let that kid drag down his teammates? Heck, academic scholarships are often conditioned on maintaining a certain GPA – why shouldn't athletic scholarship have performance or effort conditions, too?

The reality is that a lot goes on that we fans don't really know much about, or only hear gossip at three removes, or whatever. If you've got a coach with good character, he'll navigate those issues properly, taking into account all the relevant issues and doing his best to treat his players fairly. A coach whom players don't want to play for isn't going to recruit well or win much.

At this point, I've heard nothing about CGC to make me doubt his character, and by all accounts he's a great recruiter who builds strong relationships with his players. Therefore, I'm not going to second-guess him when he talks about these issues.
 
18in32 said:
I don't think oversigning (as you're defining it) happens nearly as often as you think. Coaches know it's bad business to make promises they can't deliver.

The thing is coaches have to recruit for months without having all the relevant info at hand as to the final number of available scholarships come signing day. Players have injuries of unknown seriousness, players debate transferring, players just quit playing sometimes. Sometimes they want to become cartoonists, if I remember correctly. To leave those scholarships empty is unfair to all the other players who are investing blood sweat and tears to be the best they can be.

I definitely agree that we shouldn't be pressuring kids to leave the team when they don't want to. But it also happens that players get signed, come to campus, and don't give it their all. To what extent does the coach have to just live with dead weight? Is it fair to let that kid 'take' a scholarship from another kid? Is it fair to let that kid drag down his teammates? Heck, academic scholarships are often conditioned on maintaining a certain GPA – why shouldn't athletic scholarship have performance or effort conditions, too?

The reality is that a lot goes on that we fans don't really know much about, or only hear gossip at three removes, or whatever. If you've got a coach with good character, he'll navigate those issues properly, taking into account all the relevant issues and doing his best to treat his players fairly. A coach whom players don't want to play for isn't going to recruit well or win much.

At this point, I've heard nothing about CGC to make me doubt his character, and by all accounts he's a great recruiter who builds strong relationships with his players. Therefore, I'm not going to second-guess him when he talks about these issues.
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I hope my post didn't come across as a shot at CGC, because it wasn't intended that way at all. It was aimed at fans who bitch every year that we should anticipate attrition and sign several extra players. That sounds nice, but when there's less attrition than you expect, you have to make some somewhere. It happens every year in the SEC. Just wait for signing day and it will happen again - I guarantee it.
 
swampsting said:
PJ always kept a couple in the back pocket to reward walk ons or in case a transfer came through.
Very few places go all the way to 85. A lot of folks do what PJ did.
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He didnt keep them for walk ons, but he didnt oversign, so if we lost out on a recruiting we held a ship for it would go to a walk-on. I can try to find where he mentioned it, but he wasn't intentionally holding back offers to recruits so he could throw one at a transfer or walk-on.
 
@thwg it is past Christmas eve. Time to deliver. Or did I miss a separate thread?

(I know you said basically temple's staff, but wasn't sure if there was anything more specific)
 
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