Jerry Howard, Lucss Johnson & other transfers

QuadF said:
CGC hasn't won more than 3 in a season, so I'm confused by the point you're trying to make. Some of the guys mentioned were from years that we actually won more than that, hence the pushback against the "bare cupboard" stuff.

The issue is more complex than the cheap sniping that even I've been a part of, but your response doesn't make any sense to me.
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My point is; when almost all of your outgoing transfers are at FCS, JUCO, Group of 5, or out of football altogether, that is the definition of a bare cupboard. Whether Collins can coach will be established when some of his players are upperclassmen, but to say he was left with a competitive roster was absurd. Even with the scheme advantage, we were struggling to reach 6 wins. Without it, we really should have known what would happen. (Granted, I was more optimistic than I should have been, but that's fandom)

This thread should have simply been a "where are they now" where we wished all those guys well, but the option loyalists couldn't help themselves.
 
smokey_wasp said:
My point is; when almost all of your outgoing transfers are at FCS, JUCO, Group of 5, or out of football altogether, that is the definition of a bare cupboard. Whether Collins can coach will be established when some of his players are upperclassmen, but to say he was left with a competitive roster was absurd. Even with the scheme advantage, we were struggling to reach 6 wins. Without it, we really should have known what would happen. (Granted, I was more optimistic than I should have been, but that's fandom)

This thread should have simply been a "where are they now" where we wished all those guys well, but the option loyalists couldn't help themselves.
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I hear your point, but I iirc most transfers don't work out.The ones that are successful are very much the exception, and even then it's usually grad transfers.
 
savbandjacket said:
So look at the roster left behind, most specifically both lines, and ask yourself which of those players would be in the two deep at other ACC or SEC schools not named Duke or Vanderbilt. Hell, looks at the upper class guys now who aren’t transfers and ask the same. There are very few of them.

I’ve said this before, but it bears repeating here. CPJ was a better x and o coach. He was, to an extent, able to have success without the top players. Credit to him, but he was also seeing diminishing returns. Collins undoubtedly wants to out man people hence the huge focus on turning over the roster. That’s not to say he can’t coach, but what he wants to do is more player dependent than Johnson.
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I don't disagree about issues on the lines - Adams and Braun were massive losses, and I don't remember a ton of returning talent otherwise.

GTRules said:
Or that the really good recruits he has gotten are only in their second year, and are playing against a bunch of super seniors in other teams.
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The problem of "bare cupboard" is that it's hyperbolic. If the guys we had were trash and recruiting has seen such a strong improvement, why are so many carryovers still in our 2 deep?
 
How many of our transfers, ever, have gone on to be impact players elsewhere? This isn’t anything new, and doesn’t prove or disprove any of the ööööty positions posters are taking In this thread. .

With that said, there are a lot of kids mentioned that were great parts of our program, and great kids. Most of them even graduated from GT. I hope they are all successful wherever they end up on/off the field.
 
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QuadF said:
I don't disagree about issues on the lines - Adams and Braun were massive losses, and I don't remember a ton of returning talent otherwise.





The problem of "bare cupboard" is that it's hyperbolic. If the guys we had were trash and recruiting has seen such a strong improvement, why are so many carryovers still in our 2 deep?
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Because you have to cycle your classes. Plus, I think 32 is the max signing per season, iirc.
 
QuadF said:
I don't disagree about issues on the lines - Adams and Braun were massive losses, and I don't remember a ton of returning talent otherwise.





The problem of "bare cupboard" is that it's hyperbolic. If the guys we had were trash and recruiting has seen such a strong improvement, why are so many carryovers still in our 2 deep?
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Collins was supposed to replace the entire 2 deep with freshmen and sophomores after two actual recruiting classes?
 
knoxjacket said:
Collins was supposed to replace the entire 2 deep with freshmen and sophomores after two actual recruiting classes?
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GTRules said:
Because the new recruits are at most sophomores.
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Is there a different implication of "bare cupboard" I'm not aware of? Like I said, it's very hyperbolic, and the implication to me is that the talent is low enough to be replaced by freshmen and sophomores. Rough estimate looks like 45% of the ATL are the cpj recruits.
 
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QuadF said:
I don't disagree about issues on the lines - Adams and Braun were massive losses, and I don't remember a ton of returning talent otherwise.





The problem of "bare cupboard" is that it's hyperbolic. If the guys we had were trash and recruiting has seen such a strong improvement, why are so many carryovers still in our 2 deep?
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Because the new recruits are at most sophomores.
 
GTRules said:
Because the new recruits are at most sophomores.
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Super talented sophomores start all over the country. And one would think our new recruits who are worthy of starting at P5 schools would be playing over our older players who are not worthy of being on a P5 roster.
 
GTCrew4b said:
Super talented sophomores start all over the country. And one would think our new recruits who are worthy of starting at P5 schools would be playing over our older players who are not worthy of being on a P5 roster.
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There is no roster of two deep freshmen and sophomores in the country.
 
JJacket said:
There is no roster of two deep freshmen and sophomores in the country.
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No there isn’t. And that’s not what I said. But if our roster was one where the upper class men were not fit to even be given scholarships to a P5 school, one would expect our freshman and sophomore star recruits would fairly easily outplay them.
 
GTCrew4b said:
No there isn’t. And that’s not what I said. But if our roster was one where the upper class men were not fit to even be given scholarships to a P5 school, one would expect our freshman and sophomore star recruits would fairly easily outplay them.
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Most skill positions, they are.
 
GTCrew4b said:
Super talented sophomores start all over the country. And one would think our new recruits who are worthy of starting at P5 schools would be playing over our older players who are not worthy of being on a P5 roster.
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But there’s nothing an entire winning team of them.
 
GTCrew4b said:
No there isn’t. And that’s not what I said. But if our roster was one where the upper class men were not fit to even be given scholarships to a P5 school, one would expect our freshman and sophomore star recruits would fairly easily outplay them.
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We have plenty of sophs starting.
 
GTRules said:
But there’s nothing an entire winning team of them.
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I didn’t say there was. One would expect our terrible can’t even play for P5 school (your words not mine) upper classmen to be easily replaced by our sophomores though.

and besides the sophomores are actually juniors.

It’s just hilarious to me that we keep coming back to this. Year 3 is the consensus around the college football world to get a glimpse of a new coaches roster. That’s what it is all over. Here we are and we are still trotting out the roster excuse. What I see is a lack of development from the current staff for many of our recruits.
 
GTCrew4b said:
I didn’t say there was. One would expect our terrible can’t even play for P5 school (your words not mine) upper classmen to be easily replaced by our sophomores though.

and besides the sophomores are actually juniors.

It’s just hilarious to me that we keep coming back to this. Year 3 is the consensus around the college football world to get a glimpse of a new coaches roster. That’s what it is all over. Here we are and we are still trotting out the roster excuse. What I see is a lack of development from the current staff for many of our recruits.
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No they aren’t. They are in their second year in school.
 
GTCrew4b said:
Is that where we complained about the cupboard being bare?
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No. OL, DL, where it takes longer to build quality depth. It is why we brought the two grad students in on the OL.
 
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