Jordan Yates

Didn't Watson have DeAndre Nuke Hopkins when he was at Clemson

Hopkins although he slipped out of the 1st round is now among the Top-7 WRs in the NFL

Lawrence has better defenses, better OLs and better RBs than Watson had
 
GTCrew said:
Interesting. Did he not throw to his 1st string AllACC TE?

How many 1st Team All ACC players did Watson have around him vs Lawrence?
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Yes, Leggett was on that team.

2015-2016 Clemson would only win 9 games without Watson (look at 2014 for evidence).

2018-2019 Clemson would still make the playoff without Lawrence (see beating the 2nd best team in the ACC in Syracuse last year without him).

Go look at the preseason All-ACC team this year. Clemson has QB, RB, both WRs, and 4 of the 5 OLs on the first team.

Trevor Lawrence is an unbelievable player, but Deshaun Watson is as good as any college QB I have ever seen. Geniuses like the poster above allowed him to fall in the draft because he didn't fit the physical profile - "only" 6'2 and doesn't have elite arm strength.
 
NotTomNotPhilButGCollins said:
Didn't Watson have DeAndre Nuke Hopkins when he was at Clemson

Hopkins although he slipped out of the 1st round is now among the Top-7 WRs in the NFL

Lawrence has better defenses, better OLs and better RBs than Watson had
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No, that was Tajh Boyd throwing to Hopkins and Watkins.
 
johncu said:
Daniel Jones had a 19-19 record in 3 years as starter at Duke, a school that some of y'all claim had "passed" us in terms of talent. Duke was 27-13 in the 3 years before Jones took over.

Give me a 6'0 guy that makes plays to actually win games any day.
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Considering where Dook came from, 19-19 is winning games

Considering Dook's facilities

Considering Dook's Academic Requirements

Daniel Jones going 19-19 at Dook is more impressive than what Fromm has done at UGA

Daniel Jones going 19-19 at Dook is more impressive than what Haskins did at tOSU when he had more than 50 TD passes his last yr before getting drafted in the 1st rnd also

If Chan had a Daniel Jones throwing to Calvin we never run the Tripl-Oh cause he doesn't get canned and we likely play for at least 1 MNC during Calvin's 3 yrs
 
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johncu said:
Yes, Leggett was on that team.

2015-2016 Clemson would only win 9 games without Watson (look at 2014 for evidence).

2018-2019 Clemson would still make the playoff without Lawrence (see beating the 2nd best team in the ACC in Syracuse last year without him).

Go look at the preseason All-ACC team this year. Clemson has QB, RB, both WRs, and 4 of the 5 OLs on the first team.

Trevor Lawrence is an unbelievable player, but Deshaun Watson is as good as any college QB I have ever seen. Geniuses like the poster above allowed him to fall in the draft because he didn't fit the physical profile - "only" 6'2 and doesn't have elite arm strength.
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Not true

He had a major knee injury in college

#2 He had a frail build-- combine that with a prior major injury and he was drafted in the proper slot

#3 He has had another major non-contact injury to the OTHER KNEE which shows that the experts aren't as crazy as you think they are

#4 No one ever said Watson fell cause he was only 6-2
 
NotTomNotPhilButGCollins said:
Considering where Dook came from, 19-19 is winning games

Considering Dook's facilities

Considering Dook's Academic Requirements

Daniel Jones going 19-19 at Dook is more impressive than what Fromm has done at UGA

Daniel Jones going 19-19 at Dook is more impressive than what Haskins did at tOSU when he had more than 50 TD passes his last yr before getting drafted in the 1st rnd also

If Chan had a Daniel Jones throwing to Calvin we never run the Tripl-Oh cause he doesn't get canned and we likely play for at least 1 MNC during Calvin's 3 yrs
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I do not believe Duke's academic requirements apply to athletes.
 
NotTomNotPhilButGCollins said:
They have to find something in the course catalog to take that satisfies The NCAA, The School, APR requirements

That's the NCAA rules --players have to progress towards graduation in "something" offered by the school
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As a private school, they can offer anything they choose. And as North Carolina proved the course does not really have to exist.
 
NotTomNotPhilButGCollins said:
They have to find something in the course catalog to take that satisfies The NCAA, The School, APR requirements

That's the NCAA rules --players have to progress towards graduation in "something" offered by the school
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Duke made a joke major for basketball players that has like 60 credit hours, none of them hard.
 
NotTomNotPhilButGCollins said:
Considering where Dook came from, 19-19 is winning games
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I did consider exactly that. What Duke came from is 27-13. They won the Coastal without him and barely scraped .500 with him.

Same goes for UNC. They went 11-1 and won the Coastal with a mobile guy who never even went to the NFL. Then Trubisky takes over and they drop back to 8-5.

Go look at Heisman winners over the last 10 years or so. Kyler Murray, Baker Mayfield, Lamar Jackson, Marcus Mariota, Johnny Manziel, RG3, Cam Newton. How many of those guys fit your big statue pro-style QB mold? Every one of them is short and/or mobile. Jameis Winston is possibly the only exception, but even he doesn't exactly fit the traditional pro style QB mold.

I'm not saying you can't win with a traditional pro-style quarterback. I'm saying you absolutely can win without one, and when you're running the spread, like we are, you may be better off with a mobile guy.
 
johncu said:
I did consider exactly that. What Duke came from is 27-13. They won the Coastal without him and barely scraped .500 with him.

Same goes for UNC. They went 11-1 and won the Coastal with a mobile guy who never even went to the NFL. Then Trubisky takes over and they drop back to 8-5.

Go look at Heisman winners over the last 10 years or so. Kyler Murray, Baker Mayfield, Lamar Jackson, Marcus Mariota, Johnny Manziel, RG3, Cam Newton. How many of those guys fit your big statue pro-style QB mold? Every one of them is short and/or mobile. Jameis Winston is possibly the only exception, but even he doesn't exactly fit the traditional pro style QB mold.

I'm not saying you can't win with a traditional pro-style quarterback. I'm saying you absolutely can win without one, and when you're running the spread, like we are, you may be better off with a mobile guy.
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Lawrence also runs extremely well.
 
GTCrew said:
Lawrence also runs extremely well.
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Watson rushed for over 1100 yards in one season. Trevor Lawrence has less than 500 yards in 19 games. Yes, he does run well but doesn't have Watson-level elusiveness.
 
johncu said:
I did consider exactly that. What Duke came from is 27-13. They won the Coastal without him and barely scraped .500 with him.

Same goes for UNC. They went 11-1 and won the Coastal with a mobile guy who never even went to the NFL. Then Trubisky takes over and they drop back to 8-5.

Go look at Heisman winners over the last 10 years or so. Kyler Murray, Baker Mayfield, Lamar Jackson, Marcus Mariota, Johnny Manziel, RG3, Cam Newton. How many of those guys fit your big statue pro-style QB mold? Every one of them is short and/or mobile. Jameis Winston is possibly the only exception, but even he doesn't exactly fit the traditional pro style QB mold.

I'm not saying you can't win with a traditional pro-style quarterback. I'm saying you absolutely can win without one, and when you're running the spread, like we are, you may be better off with a mobile guy.
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The fact that you even need to so cogently lay out this argument shows how myopic Phil Collins is
 
johncu said:
Watson rushed for over 1100 yards in one season. Trevor Lawrence has less than 500 yards in 19 games. Yes, he does run well but doesn't have Watson-level elusiveness.
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Watson also got himself hurt. Lawrence is more careful to get oob or slide.
 
johncu said:
Yes, Leggett was on that team.

2015-2016 Clemson would only win 9 games without Watson (look at 2014 for evidence).

2018-2019 Clemson would still make the playoff without Lawrence (see beating the 2nd best team in the ACC in Syracuse last year without him).

Go look at the preseason All-ACC team this year. Clemson has QB, RB, both WRs, and 4 of the 5 OLs on the first team.

Trevor Lawrence is an unbelievable player, but Deshaun Watson is as good as any college QB I have ever seen. Geniuses like the poster above allowed him to fall in the draft because he didn't fit the physical profile - "only" 6'2 and doesn't have elite arm strength.
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Watson was (is) electric, but Lawrence made (makes) throws I've only ever seen NFL Pro Bowlers make.
 
GTCrew said:
Watson also got himself hurt. Lawrence is more careful to get oob or slide.
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I won't argue with this. Watson is definitely more injury-prone due to the way he plays.
ElCidBUZZingFAN said:
Watson was (is) electric, but Lawrence made (makes) throws I've only ever seen NFL Pro Bowlers make.
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Which is why I said he has a higher ceiling due to arm strength. I don't think Watson is much better or anything, but at this point I'd give him the edge because I watched him will his team to victory even when they were equally or even less talented than opponents. Trevor Lawrence has never faced that situation at Clemson.
 
JacketForLife said:
Jameis is 100% a traditional pro-style QB. I've watched him nearly every single Sunday.
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He carried the ball 145 times in only 2 seasons at FSU. He's mostly a pocket passer, but he was definitely a threat to run in college. Regardless, he's the only pro-style Heisman winner in over 10 years.
 
johncu said:
He carried the ball 145 times in only 2 seasons at FSU. He's mostly a pocket passer, but he was definitely a threat to run in college. Regardless, he's the only pro-style Heisman winner in over 10 years.
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I think that has more to do with how the field is designed in college vs the pros. That's one of the main reasons we see running QBs in college vs Pros. Of course, the injury factor and the development of complex plays/styles are big as well.
 
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