Official Don’t Burn Pyron’s Shirt Petition

[BeeStorm]

This thread looking at the other threads on Stingtalk

 

[cyptomcat]

Oh not at all. I love interacting on message boards. Like I have said on another board. I’ve been following recruiting for many many years, like from way back and I have a ton of friends that work in this industry. But when Zach became a kid that started getting recruited I felt it was best to back off and limit my interaction on the boards. But I still love interacting with fans, regardless of the team.

I won’t post much, but sometimes the dad in me just comes out. I will only speak the truth, and never sugar coat anything, even about my son. I will defend players if it is warranted and back it up with truth and facts.

I also know how fans on message boards can be, so trust me, I have thick skin. And quite honestly we appreciate the criticism more than the praise simply because it’s what fuels Zach. He’s been told he can’t or won’t by a ton of people. And everyone that’s said something he’s made eat their words. It literally motivates him. He actually prefers playing on the road because of that.

He’s been battling through some injuries, and unfortunately some are injuries that aren’t ideal when you are a QB and have to throw the ball (any of the quick game stuff was giving him fits). They started in his throwing shoulder at the FSU game. But he will be back soon and knows everything he has to work on for next year to become an elite QB and help GT win a bunch of games.

I wasn't aware of the injuries. He has definitely been playing very tough.

The important question: Ready for Prime Time next year?

 

[GTQBdad]

I wasn't aware of the injuries. He has definitely been playing very tough.

The important question: Ready for Prime Time next year?

Sure he will play @ noon, 3:30, or any prime time slot...he doesn't care.

 

[ThomsonJacket]

Sure he will play @ noon, 3:30, or any prime time slot...he doesn't care.

 

[coit]

Out of curiosity, what's your background or experience regarding how to play QB?

@Jmonty71 don't forget to respond to this question.

 

[Jmonty71]

Out of curiosity, what's your background or experience regarding how to play QB?

Not only did I play the position, I coached it for years. With that said, I taught basics. However; I know enough to know when those basics aren't there. Are there exceptions? Sure. Maholmes and Mariotta terrible basics. However; they were both sickly talented enough, to were it didn't matter. Given, Marcus Marriota is past his prime, in my

@Jmonty71 don't forget to respond to this question.

This is a loaded question fallacy. If I mention my experience, it will be picked apart and told it isn't enough. But, not only did I play the position. I coached it. Given, I taught mostly basics. However; I coached enough to know where the basics aren't there. Do I have college experience? No. Do I feel like I have enough experience to see when certain basic skills aren't there or being used? Yes. Again... The question was phrased to where my answer doesn't matter. Very leftist mentality.

 

[coit]

Not only did I play the position, I coached it for years. With that said, I taught basics. However; I know enough to know when those basics aren't there.

Come on, you are going to have to be more specific than that. Name one basic that isn't there.

 

[Jmonty71]

Come on, you are going to have to be more specific than that. Name one basic that isn't there.

Chicken winging a ball, versus tucked. Stepping and throwing. Reading the pocket and throwing lanes. Those are the 3 that I noticed. I get his is a Freshman. However; there are some bad habits that need to be fixed. Those little things turn into bigger things. Accuracy, preventing tips and INTs and not giving a D-lineman a target for a strip sack. I will concede that there are some QBs that have terrible basics. Maholmes comes to mind. However; he is insanely talented and his talent makes up for his lack of what I call basics.

 

[GTQBdad]

Chicken winging a ball, versus tucked. Stepping and throwing. Reading the pocket and throwing lanes. Those are the 3 that I noticed. I get his is a Freshman. However; there are some bad habits that need to be fixed. Those little things turn into bigger things. Accuracy, preventing tips and INTs and not giving a D-lineman a target for a strip sack. I will concede that there are some QBs that have terrible basics. Maholmes comes to mind. However; he is insanely talented and his talent makes up for his lack of what I call basics.

Do you mind going a bit deeper and explain what you mean by "stepping and throwing"? Not sure what chicken winging a ball really means as it pertains to QB. Are you referring to arm angles when throwing? Reading the pocket and throwing lanes....my guess is that typically gets better with more experience. So if you don't mind, just a little additional clarification would be much appreciated.

 

[Jmonty71]

Do you mind going a bit deeper and explain what you mean by "stepping and throwing"? Not sure what chicken winging a ball really means as it pertains to QB. Are you referring to arm angles when throwing? Reading the pocket and throwing lanes....my guess is that typically gets better with more experience. So if you don't mind, just a little additional clarification would be much appreciated.

When you deliver a football, much like baseball, it's about transfer of weight. It's taking your weight and shifting forward. This increases velocity and ensuring your front foot is pointing in the right direction, improves accuracy. That is the base of "step and throw", in a nutshell. Chicken winging. Elbow should be tucked and ball should be secure with 2 hands. Usually tucked around your shoulder, so you can unload a pass or put the ball in your gut, should you be sacked. Again... Not sure how to explain that more. Lastly, you are right. Learning the difference of game speed usually equals using throwing lanes, reading defenses and knowing hot routes. The last part is where Sims seemed to struggle. Yes, it can be learned. But, it does require what I call football IQ. Football IQ is something you have or your don't. Example. Brady, Manning and Josh Allen have excellent football IQ. You can either outsmart the other team or you don't. Can it be taught? Yes.... With a coach that has the ability to go over film and study along with that QB. But, still takes the ability of that QB, to learn, understand and apply it. It is much harder than it seems.

 

[GTRules]

When you deliver a football, much like baseball, it's about transfer of weight. It's taking your weight and shifting forward. This increases velocity and ensuring your front foot is pointing in the right direction, improves accuracy. That is the base of "step and throw", in a nutshell. Chicken winging. Elbow should be tucked and ball should be secure with 2 hands. Usually tucked around your shoulder, so you can unload a pass or put the ball in your gut, should you be sacked. Again... Not sure how to explain that more. Lastly, you are right. Learning the difference of game speed usually equals using throwing lanes, reading defenses and knowing hot routes. The last part is where Sims seemed to struggle. Yes, it can be learned. But, it does require what I call football IQ. Football IQ is something you have or your don't. Example. Brady, Manning and Josh Allen have excellent football IQ. You can either outsmart the other team or you don't. Can it be taught? Yes.... With a coach that has the ability to go over film and study along with that QB. But, still takes the ability of that QB, to learn, understand and apply it. It is much harder than it seems.

Now that it’s official that we have nothing at all to be excited about because our QB sucks ass, what’s our next move. Focus on volleyball?

 

[00Burdell]

When you deliver a football, much like baseball, it's about transfer of weight. It's taking your weight and shifting forward. This increases velocity and ensuring your front foot is pointing in the right direction, improves accuracy. That is the base of "step and throw", in a nutshell. Chicken winging. Elbow should be tucked and ball should be secure with 2 hands. Usually tucked around your shoulder, so you can unload a pass or put the ball in your gut, should you be sacked. Again... Not sure how to explain that more. Lastly, you are right. Learning the difference of game speed usually equals using throwing lanes, reading defenses and knowing hot routes. The last part is where Sims seemed to struggle. Yes, it can be learned. But, it does require what I call football IQ. Football IQ is something you have or your don't. Example. Brady, Manning and Josh Allen have excellent football IQ. You can either outsmart the other team or you don't. Can it be taught? Yes.... With a coach that has the ability to go over film and study along with that QB. But, still takes the ability of that QB, to learn, understand and apply it. It is much harder than it seems.

Option B would be for you to reconsider your assessment of a kid who did not get any first team snaps until after the Duke game - that's on Collins, not Key. So Pyron couldn't start vs UVa because he had zero exposure to the playbook (from being on the Scout team the whole time). I said it before - its impressive that he went from the scout team to starting in basically 2 weeks.

You also seem inordinately concerned with mechanics. Now that he has Weinke's full attention, I wouldn't give them a second thought. If Weinke has a problem with any of it, he'll fix it. Next up: field awareness. You and I flatly disagree on Pyron's field awareness - he finds open receivers and releases the ball about as fast as any Tech QB in recent memory. In three starts (one of which he was not 100% even before the collarbone), here are his third down stats: For 3rd and less than 10, he's 7 for 12 (almost 60%). On 3rd and 10 or more yards, Pyron is 6 for 8 (75%) including 3 passes for over 15 yards and 2 passes for over 25 yards.

I could go on but I'll stop with this thought - if we have a QB who completes 60%+ of his passes on 3rd and long then I'm not super-worried about him sidearming the ball. One more thing. Go back and review how many of his passes were caught without the receiver having to adjust to the ball. Perhaps if his mechanics improve, these eye-popping numbers will improve but I'm pretty happy where they are for a guy who got pushed onto the stage with no notice.

 

[THWG247]

When you deliver a football, much like baseball, it's about transfer of weight. It's taking your weight and shifting forward. This increases velocity and ensuring your front foot is pointing in the right direction, improves accuracy. That is the base of "step and throw", in a nutshell. Chicken winging. Elbow should be tucked and ball should be secure with 2 hands. Usually tucked around your shoulder, so you can unload a pass or put the ball in your gut, should you be sacked. Again... Not sure how to explain that more. Lastly, you are right. Learning the difference of game speed usually equals using throwing lanes, reading defenses and knowing hot routes. The last part is where Sims seemed to struggle. Yes, it can be learned. But, it does require what I call football IQ. Football IQ is something you have or your don't. Example. Brady, Manning and Josh Allen have excellent football IQ. You can either outsmart the other team or you don't. Can it be taught? Yes.... With a coach that has the ability to go over film and study along with that QB. But, still takes the ability of that QB, to learn, understand and apply it. It is much harder than it seems.

Can you just stfu?

 

[GTQBdad]

When you deliver a football, much like baseball, it's about transfer of weight. It's taking your weight and shifting forward. This increases velocity and ensuring your front foot is pointing in the right direction, improves accuracy. That is the base of "step and throw", in a nutshell. Chicken winging. Elbow should be tucked and ball should be secure with 2 hands. Usually tucked around your shoulder, so you can unload a pass or put the ball in your gut, should you be sacked. Again... Not sure how to explain that more. Lastly, you are right. Learning the difference of game speed usually equals using throwing lanes, reading defenses and knowing hot routes. The last part is where Sims seemed to struggle. Yes, it can be learned. But, it does require what I call football IQ. Football IQ is something you have or your don't. Example. Brady, Manning and Josh Allen have excellent football IQ. You can either outsmart the other team or you don't. Can it be taught? Yes.... With a coach that has the ability to go over film and study along with that QB. But, still takes the ability of that QB, to learn, understand and apply it. It is much harder than it seems.

Yeah well maybe if you were coaching in the 70's and 80's. But everything you stated as your ways of "teaching the QB position" are not really how they teach it anymore. "Stepping" to throw has been replaced with rotation. The reason you ask? Is because the traditional way of stepping forward most all the time causes over striding. And no one is teach transferring weight, again it's about rotation. Your way of stepping actually can decrease velocity and causes even greater inaccuracy. And none of the QBs you mentioned use much, if any of the mechanics you taught or what you think is great QB mechanics.....pictures for reference below:

Nope - Not taught anymore

Not taught either

Or this

Or this

Of the QBs you mention that are really good at their position, which of them are doing the opposite of "chicken winging it"

Sorry for the picture formatting. But my point is, nothing you said you taught or in your opinion, is ideal and correct QB mechanics is being taught today. When Chris Weinke, Trent Dilfer, Jordan Palmer, or David Morris start teaching the way you do, then I am sure you will see those old school ways come back. But I am sure most QBs will continue to evolve and change how the QB position is played. It happens every year. Guys like Aaron Rogers, Tom Brady, Josh Allan, Patrick Mahomes, all are very vocal about how their mechanics have evolved from HS to college and now the pros. And the way they are doing it now is being taught by the best QB gurus out there. So if it's good enough for them.....well you know the rest.

 

[daBuzz]

When you deliver a football, much like baseball, it's about transfer of weight. It's taking your weight and shifting forward. This increases velocity and ensuring your front foot is pointing in the right direction, improves accuracy. That is the base of "step and throw", in a nutshell. Chicken winging. Elbow should be tucked and ball should be secure with 2 hands. Usually tucked around your shoulder, so you can unload a pass or put the ball in your gut, should you be sacked. Again... Not sure how to explain that more. Lastly, you are right. Learning the difference of game speed usually equals using throwing lanes, reading defenses and knowing hot routes. The last part is where Sims seemed to struggle. Yes, it can be learned. But, it does require what I call football IQ. Football IQ is something you have or your don't. Example. Brady, Manning and Josh Allen have excellent football IQ. You can either outsmart the other team or you don't. Can it be taught? Yes.... With a coach that has the ability to go over film and study along with that QB. But, still takes the ability of that QB, to learn, understand and apply it. It is much harder than it seems.

Oh, horseshit. All of that is a just a bunch of useless drivel you posted to try & make yourself come off as more knowledgeable than you actually are. While what you posted might even be technically correct, the ability to play QB and play it successfully at college level and above comes down to a few simple things:
- can that QB read defenses most of the time pre-snap and, determine if he needs to adjust hot routes, audible or adjust protections?
- can that QB consistently work through his progressions and find the open receiver, even when (and especially if) protection is breaking down?
- can that QB get the ball to the intended receiver and not to a defender?

There are some other subtleties like: can he hit the receiver in stride so that can maximize YAC or does he know when to throw it away if nothing is there? All the rest is just sugar coating to increase the "probability" etc.

Are you gonna tell me that Phillip Rivers, one of the most successful pro & college QB's didn't have one of the ugliest throwing motions known to the football world? Or that Jeff George, who had literally the almost perfect throwing motion and footwork wasn't one overhyped and under-performing MF'er? Oh...but he had flawless footwork.

Similar to Dan Pastorini, the old Houston Oilers QB of whom Houston fans used to say "We have a QB who can stand flat-footed and throw a ball 7 stories straight up". But to which Dallas Cowboy fans would reply, "Yeah but your receiver was on the 3rd floor".

Too many people fall in love with flawless mechanics and overlook dudes who know how to move the ball and win.

 

[ThomsonJacket]

 

[Jmonty71]

Just FYI. This is why I said this was a loaded question fallacy. It allows a mob mentality to attack. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Jmonty71]

Oh, horseshit. All of that is a just a bunch of useless drivel you posted to try & make yourself come off as more knowledgeable than you actually are. While what you posted might even be technically correct, the ability to play QB and play it successfully at college level and above comes down to a few simple things:
- can that QB read defenses most of the time pre-snap and, determine if he needs to adjust hot routes, audible or adjust protections?
- can that QB consistently work through his progressions and find the open receiver, even when (and especially if) protection is breaking down?
- can that QB get the ball to the intended receiver and not to a defender?

There are some other subtleties like: can he hit the receiver in stride so that can maximize YAC or does he know when to throw it away if nothing is there? All the rest is just sugar coating to increase the "probability" etc.

Are you gonna tell me that Phillip Rivers, one of the most successful pro & college QB's didn't have one of the ugliest throwing motions known to the football world? Or that Jeff George, who had literally the almost perfect throwing motion and footwork wasn't one overhyped and under-performing MF'er? Oh...but he had flawless footwork.

Similar to Dan Pastorini, the old Houston Oilers QB of whom Houston fans used to say "We have a QB who can stand flat-footed and throw a ball 7 stories straight up". But to which Dallas Cowboy fans would reply, "Yeah but your receiver was on the 3rd floor".

Too many people fall in love with flawless mechanics and overlook dudes who know how to move the ball and win.

There is a point where those that are sickly talented can do whatever and still succeed. You cannot take Pyron and compare him to a Phillip Rivers. More often then not, poor mechanics lead to poor play. Unless the Pyron is the 2nd coming of Peyton Manning or Bret Farve, you are not proving anything.

 

[Jmonty71]

Yeah well maybe if you were coaching in the 70's and 80's. But everything you stated as your ways of "teaching the QB position" are not really how they teach it anymore. "Stepping" to throw has been replaced with rotation. The reason you ask? Is because the traditional way of stepping forward most all the time causes over striding. And no one is teach transferring weight, again it's about rotation. Your way of stepping actually can decrease velocity and causes even greater inaccuracy. And none of the QBs you mentioned use much, if any of the mechanics you taught or what you think is great QB mechanics.....pictures for reference below:

Nope - Not taught anymore

Not taught either

Or this

Or this

Of the QBs you mention that are really good at their position, which of them are doing the opposite of "chicken winging it"

Sorry for the picture formatting. But my point is, nothing you said you taught or in your opinion, is ideal and correct QB mechanics is being taught today. When Chris Weinke, Trent Dilfer, Jordan Palmer, or David Morris start teaching the way you do, then I am sure you will see those old school ways come back. But I am sure most QBs will continue to evolve and change how the QB position is played. It happens every year. Guys like Aaron Rogers, Tom Brady, Josh Allan, Patrick Mahomes, all are very vocal about how their mechanics have evolved from HS to college and now the pros. And the way they are doing it now is being taught by the best QB gurus out there. So if it's good enough for them.....well you know the rest.

All those people have talent well above average. Are you putting Pyron in this class? I am telling you, at the high school level, these mechanics are being taught. Are there rare exceptions? Yes. However; that is a much less percentage than you may think.

 

[Jmonty71]

Can you just stfu?

I got asked... and pushed.. So, got eff off. You can simply ignore me and move on.