gtrower
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YES AND WE HAVE GIVEN HIM TWO THROW AWAY SEASONS ALREADY.
Recruiting 2021... Georgia Tech and the ACC
- Thread starter Techbert
- Start date
YES AND WE HAVE GIVEN HIM TWO THROW AWAY SEASONS ALREADY.
johncu
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You seem to have interpreted "3 wins no longer gets a shrug" as "under the guillotine". Perhaps we're talking past each other here. Maybe gtrower has a different opinion, but I don't think anyone would even consider putting CGC on the chopping block in 2021 unless we go winless. We just want to see improvement. We were bad this year and it was okay again because of the many reasons I won't rehash again. All I'm saying is that there aren't enough reasons for us to be bad again and everybody to just be cool with it. We can't lose 73-7 again. We can't get blown out by ööööty teams, or lose to a team that would otherwise be winless. That's all I'm saying.
knoxjacket
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IF YOU READ MY OTHER POST I POINT OUT WE SHOULD MAKE A BOWL IN 2021. THAT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACT OUR PREVIOUS COACH LEFT A HISTORICALLY AWFUL ROSTER BY GEORGIA TECH STANDARDS.
GTCrew
Patrick Henry
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Transfers aren't young, but they will have rookie problems that a guy who has been in the system for five years won't have. Particularly on the lines the best lines are kids who have played together for years. Throwing five good linemen together but that haven't played together is almost certain to underperform until they get that sense and understanding of what their neighbors are doing.
knoxjacket
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I ran the numbers based on 2020 roster. No one is getting credit for guys who aren't here. RS count as SO instead of JR as they should, etc.
johncu
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This is a good stat, actually. I could see some of the guys below getting drafted, so I think 3 is a fair number.
Jordan Domineck
Juanyeh Thomas
Zamari Walton
Tariq Carpenter
JP Mason
Tre Swilling
Pressley Harvin
All of those guys will be seniors this upcoming season. Whereas we've had no NFL-bound seniors in a while, we will have some in 2021. All the more reason to expect significant, meaningful improvement.
gtrower
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Yes. You are missing several things. That much is blatantly obvious.
What you are specifically missing here is that class rankings don’t factor in transfers while a roster rating does include transfers.
The general trend the last 3 cycles has been lower rates guys transferring out while higher rates kids have transferred in. Credit to CGC for quickly flipping the roster to fit his schemes and upgrading talent.
We’re gonna have around 10 transfers next year (+/- 1 depending on attrition) all either starting or being major contributors. That’s why we’re not this horrifically young team that some off y’all want to make us out to be.
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Techbert
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Not sure of your point. Are those the recruiting coach or just the year of the head coach on draft day? Are you claiming those coaches develop those players to draftable? Do you make any allowance for length of tenure?
Because it looks like an attempt to obscure reality with irrelevant facts.
gtrower
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Cool so you’ve accepted the reality of the roster as I’ve explained it to you and are now focusing on moving goal posts to a safer location for your knowledge base. I’m not gonna have as many problems with this tangent so have a good rest of the day.
GTCrew
Patrick Henry
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You sure seem to be walking back to where I am after "the free pass is over". "Bowl at a minimum". You are still stuck on some stupid like "no blowouts" or "no bad losses". Stop it. Stop. A young team IS very very likely to have lower lows but higher highs than a veteran team. "No blowouts" and "no bad losses" are standards for veteran teams.
YES we should expect improvement in 2021. I EXPECTED improvement this year and got it. Was it a lot? No. Was it some improvement? Hell yes. And most of all I saw that our recruits are real deal.
Again the standard, and the only standard, should be improvement on the field and at worst maintaining recruiting. What improvement means can't be determined in Dec 2020. Anything could happen. Sims gets hurt in Fall and what then? No bowl and we get the pitchforks? Gtfo.
knoxjacket
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The number of guys who the coach inherited that went on to be drafted. The point is that Collins has inherited a worse roster than any of those guys. Not sure how that is irrelevant.
gtrower
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My apologies - blended your posts together with crews and assumed you were joining together with his ridiculous argument that 2021 is another throw away year. Think CGC deserves a lot of credit for moving us up that roster rank list in basically two years and to give him that credit we’d need to acknowledge where it was when he inherited it. So can’t argue with your point on that.
GTCrew
Patrick Henry
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No. No no no. I'm trying to not disparage any players. This board has some serious rose colored glasses about everyone that transfers in. Coach has to try, but so far it's been mostly whiffs from my seat.
Tampa Jacket
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Yes. I said that. And Todd Stansbury said that. Stansbury played football and understands football. He understands the tremendous challenge any coach faced coming in here and trying to undo the triple option system, particularly as it pertains to a roster the average recruiting ranking of which was in the bottom 10th percentile of all P5 times for the past 4 years.
That’s why he gave Collins an unprecedented amount of time to turn the program around.
Vegas had at us a 2.5 win projection this year. It will be slightly more than that next year but it will be below .500. Las Vegas just like Stansberry is grounded in reality. They are not pie in the sky dreamers that think any coach can come in here and wave a magic wand and make us a contender in the coastal in two or three years. I want to see Georgia Tech football relevant again just as bad as you do. But I live in reality.
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The Jacket
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This. I wish people would stop acting like "improvement" can be plotted on a line graph. That kind of absurd oversimplification of building a program is the only way people can take the narrow, nonsensical view that next year's win total alone will be life or death for Collins. And on the scale of the individual games, things like "no bad losses" and "no blowouts" are meaningless, mindless demands disguised as logical measurements of overall improvement. In any given year, most of the teams in college football suffer at least one blowout or "bad loss" and that includes programs who are on the rise.
In 1998 we were a team on the rise, who everyone expected to be much improved over the 1997 campaign. Instead, we opened the season with a 10-point loss to a Boston College team that would go 4-7, and later we got blown out at home by Florida State, 34-7. Shouldn't have even bothered to play the season.
GTLiebs
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You also have to include at least a chunk of the 2019 class in there. At least all the players that committed and then signed before Collins was hired. As has been pointed out, even with that it May be a majority of players actually recruited by Collins but it would still be a team where the majority of players are Juniors or younger. So the roster may be majority "flipped" but if we're playing most of that part of the roster it's not a normal situation.
You also have to consider what happens this spring. On the worse side of possibilities, we might enter next year with 2 classes than haven't done a full spring practice, which further hurts things from the perspective of experience.
Other thing is that setting an expectation of contending for a division or conference for any particular year is silly unless it's something you're normally doing every year.
GTLiebs
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The other thing is that transfers that aren't young and aren't grad transfers are likely brought in primarily because their experience can help anchor the inexperience of players around them and also help transfer knowledge to the younger players. Which doesn't necessarily say much about their talent or on-field performance. May apply to the grad transfers too, but you at least wouldn't assume it.
Another thing that makes standard class/age measures hard to use for us is that we have older players that don't have the experience in system that you'd normally have for a player that's been around a while. This is super true for the offensive line outside of the transfers. Also kind of true for the defense, some of whom have played under 3 different defensive coordinators here.
Techbert
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If we polled all the fan bases of all the teams, we would come up with an average winning percentage the teams should achieve of about 80%, and that they would grumblingly be "satisfied with an average of 75%. If you point out to them the average winning percentage of all teams is 50%, they would look at you blankly.
Then they would explain how they would win 100% of all the games of teams THEY think their team is better than, and "steal a coupla wins" from the rest, and that is their baseline... but they would expect improvement from that baseline.
And they have all sorts of advice for the coaches, that they are 100% certain on, but as the old adage says, if you listen to the fans in the stands, soon you'll be sitting up there.
ElCidBUZZingFAN
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The levers and buttons you guys use to judge the job he's done to date is comical. Vegas O/U. That's what we're using now. Vegas.
GTCrew
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He did not say that at all. You have serious reading comprehension issues.The levers and buttons you guys use to judge the job he's done to date is comical. Vegas O/U. That's what we're using now. Vegas.