The ACC Coastal Coach Purge Begins! - Fuentes Out at VT

Wreck07 said:
My problem with #2 is that if this works, the OC and DC will be snapped up by another school with more prestige, and we will have to start over.
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We should stick with the status quo, then, to ensure this never happens.
 
Beej1953 said:
43-31 gets him fired. A winning percentage just under .600. Stansbury would give CGC a 10-year extension if he did that.
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They play a cupcake schedule year in and year out. I'm not impressed by the record.

Fuente is getting fired, in part, because their recruiting dropped off a few years ago and hasn't recovered. I think Bronco has something to do with that.

/
 
Beej1953 said:
43-31 gets him fired. A winning percentage just under .600. Stansbury would give CGC a 10-year extension if he did that.
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The devil’s advocate in me wants to point out that their schedule is garbage every year and I’m pretty sure he’s under .500 against P5. And those P5s have not been the UGAs and Clemsons of the world.

Their OOC next year is WVU, Wofford, Liberty, ODU and BC is their permanent crossover. If you can’t make a bowl with these kind of schedules then you should be fired.

But agree with your general point.
 
gtrower said:
The devil’s advocate in me wants to point out that their schedule is garbage every year and I’m pretty sure he’s under .500 against P5. And those P5s have not been the UGAs and Clemsons of the world.

Their OOC next year is WVU, Wofford, Liberty, ODU and BC is their permanent crossover. If you can’t make a bowl with these kind of schedules then you should be fired.

But agree with your general point.
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Do you think we would make a bowl against that schedule? We would be looking at 5-7 in a best case scenario.
 
WracerX said:
Do you think we would make a bowl against that schedule? We would be looking at 5-7 in a best case scenario.
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Hard to argue that this year’s team would given the NIU loss on our resume this year. But I think our expected win total for betting purposes would go up by 2 playing that schedule.
 
Diseqc said:
Geoff has to go 34-8 over the next three years to match his record
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angels-in-the-outfield-it-could-happen.gif
 
GTCrew said:
Im not sure the best teams are winning because of a few genius OC/DCs, but rather because they have a dozen ex-top-coaches behind the curtain. My OC would not necessarily call the plays. certainly wouldn't scheme the offense by himself. The consultants would do that. So if you lose the OC, the consultants carry on and you promote a position coach.

Again, my opinion is that you have to recruit at a high level and coach at a high level. There is no longer enough time in a coaches' day to do everything required to win. Since only coaches are allowed to recruit, you have to move "coaching" off their plate. Their focus has to be recruiting, and the consultant's job is to coach (or help with all the aspects of coaching).
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I completely agree with this. I think this is either not understood or glazed over in these discussions almost entirely. The gaggers have essentially run the same plays over last decade and a half, and that one sweep play then play action combo for like 30 years. The built in elders are calling those shots and designing. When CPJ was here perhaps he didn't personally handle as much recruiting in favor for handling the typical coaching duties and running the offense? That makes sense with what know. Geoff is hitting recruiting hard but by necessity has to handle some basic coaching duties when he is inept at this. If we had more of the consultants then our situation would improve under this logic. Let's get Cut on board!
 
GTCrew said:
It is being done because the "current NCAA regulations" have a huge loophole being exploited by anyone any good.
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I'm open to that argument. Do you have any evidence that these programs are having analysts calling plays on game day or running practices and teaching football techniques to players on the field? Because that would be a clear violation of the rules.

Each team can have a head coach, 10 assistant coaches, and four grad student coaches. NCAA Rule 11.7.4. A "coach" is any person who

(a) Provides technical or tactical instruction related to the sport to a student-athlete at any time;​
(b) Makes or assists in making tactical decisions related to the sport during on-court or on-field practice or competition; or​
(c) Engages in any off-campus recruiting activities. NCAA Rule 11.7.1.1.​

So if someone is not a head coach, one of the listed 10 assistant coaches, or one of the 4 grad students, then they are considered a "noncoaching staff member." NCAA Rule 11.7.3. These noncoaching staff members are "prohibited from participating in on-court or on-field activities (e.g., assist with drills, throw batting practice, signal plays) and is prohibited from participating with or observing student-athletes in the staff member's sport who are engaged in nonorganized voluntary athletically related activities (e.g., pick-up games)." Id.

I'm completely open to Alabama or whoever running afoul of these rules, but it would a major violation and it would be pretty easy to spot. That's why you didn't see Butch Jones running practices or sitting in the press box calling plays, but you did see him washing Nick Saban's car. These analysts watch film and consult with the countable coaches on general strategy during the week, but they don't do any on-the-field practice work and they certainly don't have a part in calling plays on game day.
 
fatmike91 said:
They play a cupcake schedule year in and year out. I'm not impressed by the record.

Fuente is getting fired, in part, because their recruiting dropped off a few years ago and hasn't recovered. I think Bronco has something to do with that.

/
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Bronco hasn’t exactly been lighting it up with recruiting
 
Ed Sawyer said:
I'm open to that argument. Do you have any evidence that these programs are having analysts calling plays on game day or running practices and teaching football techniques to players on the field? Because that would be a clear violation of the rules.

Each team can have a head coach, 10 assistant coaches, and four grad student coaches. NCAA Rule 11.7.4. A "coach" is any person who

(a) Provides technical or tactical instruction related to the sport to a student-athlete at any time;​
(b) Makes or assists in making tactical decisions related to the sport during on-court or on-field practice or competition; or​
(c) Engages in any off-campus recruiting activities. NCAA Rule 11.7.1.1.​

So if someone is not a head coach, one of the listed 10 assistant coaches, or one of the 4 grad students, then they are considered a "noncoaching staff member." NCAA Rule 11.7.3. These noncoaching staff members are "prohibited from participating in on-court or on-field activities (e.g., assist with drills, throw batting practice, signal plays) and is prohibited from participating with or observing student-athletes in the staff member's sport who are engaged in nonorganized voluntary athletically related activities (e.g., pick-up games)." Id.

I'm completely open to Alabama or whoever running afoul of these rules, but it would a major violation and it would be pretty easy to spot. That's why you didn't see Butch Jones running practices or sitting in the press box calling plays, but you did see him washing Nick Saban's car. These analysts watch film and consult with the countable coaches on general strategy during the week, but they don't do any on-the-field practice work and they certainly don't have a part in calling plays on game day.
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calling plays on game day

Where is the line? If I study film on Notre Dame all year and then I tell the OC what play "would be expected to be most successful against the D ND lines up with at a certain down and distance" and then the OC takes that advice and calls the play, who called the play?

or running practices

Obviously "consultants" would not run the practice

and teaching football techniques to players on the field

Obviously the consultants would not directly teach on the field. The official position coach runs the practice, all of which is filmed. The consultants then analyze every aspect so the position coach doesnt have to (and can tweet or call or visit or whatever). The consultants then communicate their findings to the position coach who implements their corrections next practice, and repeat every day.

If you read those rules, can the consultants watch practice on video realtime and provide feedback to the coaches? I think they can.
 
GTCrew said:
calling plays on game day

Where is the line? If I study film on Notre Dame all year and then I tell the OC what play "would be expected to be most successful against the D ND lines up with at a certain down and distance" and then the OC takes that advice and calls the play, who called the play?
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Analysts definitely play a part in game-planning. They suggest things to the OC and the OC would incorporate that into the game day play sheet. So in that sense they help "call plays" but they literally don't call the play in the middle of the second quarter. Their input is done during the week and stops at game day.

GTCrew said:
and teaching football techniques to players on the field

Obviously the consultants would not directly teach on the field. The official position coach runs the practice, all of which is filmed. The consultants then analyze every aspect so the position coach doesnt have to (and can tweet or call or visit or whatever). The consultants then communicate their findings to the position coach who implements their corrections next practice, and repeat every day.

If you read those rules, can the consultants watch practice on video realtime and provide feedback to the coaches? I think they can.
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I think that's allowable and that it happens pretty much like you describe. Analysts do a lot of the grunt work that frees up the time for the coaches to do other things. But the analysts can't have direct contact with the players, so they don't actually do the teaching.
 
Ed Sawyer said:
Analysts definitely play a part in game-planning. They suggest things to the OC and the OC would incorporate that into the game day play sheet. So in that sense they help "call plays" but they literally don't call the play in the middle of the second quarter. Their input is done during the week and stops at game day.



I think that's allowable and that it happens pretty much like you describe. Analysts do a lot of the grunt work that frees up the time for the coaches to do other things. But the analysts can't have direct contact with the players, so they don't actually do the teaching.
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Seems like we are on the same page except I doubt the input stops at game day. I expect they could update spreadsheets, programs, etc. And without a doubt they could be analyzing the first half and recommend adjustments at halftime. That may not be perfectly aligned with the rules but winners operate in the gray zones.
 
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