Virginia provides a direct contrast . . .

Goldbuzz,

If the things you say are true about player attitudes and lax practices and things not being corrected, etc...in time, it will become apparent through our play on the field. At this point, I have no reason to agree or disagree with you, as we posted the same record in 2002 as 2001. However, I caution about posting this kind of stuff, as recruits read these dang boards.
 
goldbuzz, what did I say I know? I questioned why I should believe you know anything. So at this point I know you hang around campus. Are you still in school? do you hang out with players? do you work at the V? FYI, I grew up about 4 blocks from Duke, went to every basketball and football game for about 10 years, worked on campus and know/knew most of the coaches and AA staff and many players. That doesn't mean I necessarilly knew what was going inside any team though. I'm not saying you do or don't, just that it's easy for someone to post like they have inside info w/o having any qualifications. So don't be so snide about somebody questioning your bona fides if you don't give them.

And back to my point. I believe that if players dissatisfaction is as rampant as you imply that it would be common knowledge. My experience with 18-22 year olds is that most can't keep their mouths shut, especially when there are about 100 involved. As I also said, if you prove to be correct I will apologize and bow to your superior wisdom. Is that okay?
 
Goldbuzz, I am not trying to start an argument, I am just curious about a word you used in conjunction with Bill Lewis.

It was his humanistic approach. When I see this word, I think of the current movement among many "so called intellectuals" who believe man is capable of attaining perfection without the assistance of God.

You may have meant it in another way. Just curious about your use of the word to describe Bill Lewis. I thought I had read somewhere he was a Christian, but I may be wrong. If so, I had not heard about that side of the man.

I would appreciate hearing your thoughts on the use of this word to describe Lewis. There are other uses of the word, but the above is the most commonly used today.

Thanks
 
Well Beserk, I am not sure I see your problem.

I made it perfectly clear I was not arguing a point with goldbuzz. I made it clear I was only interested in the difference, if any, between my understanding of the word humanistic and the understanding by goldbuzz.

I made it clear, I did not know about Bill's religious leanings, although I had seen somewhere he claimed to be a Christian.

I told goldbuzz I was curious about his use of the word humanistic in relation to Lewis, and explained why I was curious.

If I intended a pissing contest as you have stated, would you please enlighten me on the matter. I missed it myself. I would believe goldbuzz would miss your point also.

rolleyes.gif
rolleyes.gif
rolleyes.gif
 
Jerry The Jacket speaks the truth. Groh is a perfect example of comparison. That WAC powerhouse Fresno State just took up where Georgia left off. Jerry's comments about preparation are borne out by the terrible preparation prior to Georgia and Maryland, our two biggest blowouts, which came with extra days to prepare. 51-7? Give me a break.

Another barometer of comparison should be Grobe at Wake Forest. You guys can bat the issue of "talent" around all day if you want to, but no one can claim Grobe had the kind of material at Wake that Clemson, Tech, and these other underperformers have.

I would suggest that Gailey get a decent a offensive line coach since Braine ran McWhorter off, a decent special teams coach, and a competent strength coach. The receivers coach needs a new place to call home also.

Last year we were coming off the Seattle Bowl, offering some hope in the post-O'leary era. Now we have a crappy game vs. Duke, a 51-7 humiliation against Georgia and loss against a WAC also ran to move us into the offseason.

Jerry, you are right. UVa will be the team to beat, and with Auburn, Georgia, BYU, NCState, Maryland and Wake waiting things do not bode well. Some are getting better. We are getting worse.
 
ncjacket - On Dec. 30, 2002 you posted the following:

"If what you say is true then I would agree with much of what you are saying. However, I doubt you because I haven't heard any credible corroboration (how do you spell that word anyway?). I've posted numerous times that IMO the widespread player dissatisfaction you describe can't be covered up. If it were true, we would know because it would be all over campus. If you are proven right in the future I will apologize and give you full credit."


I think the events of the last week are a sufficient corroboration of "much of what [I am] saying."

So I am waiting for my apology and extension of "full credit".

ncjacket - by the way, you can miss a thing or two way up there in Greensboro, North Carolina, can't you?
 
Originally posted by Jerry the Jacket:
.... to Georgia Tech. They hire a pro coach (who just happens to be a Virginia alumni, key difference here) with the expectations of establishing a higher level of achievement on the gridiron. Groh burns with a passion and desire to see UVA a powerhouse. He goes out and recruits top talent and plays that talent. He sets a vision and directs his troops toward accomplishing that vision. The Cavaliers are on the way and will be Hell to play for us and everybody else going forward.

Gailey has no connection to Tech. He thinks this college stuff will be a snap compared to Pro ball. He expects to win but doesn't put in the preperation to do so. He misjudges our talent and waste a year where we had the potential to win the ACC. He inspires no one with his, "deer lost in the headlights look". He takes a program with so much potential and turns it south.

We really missed the boat.

Go Jackets!
<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">JTJ: Thanks for bringing this back!! Here we are 6 months advanced and instead of saying we are all wrong ... nothing changed, it's worse!!!
 
I believe Groh did not do very well with Virginia in his first year. It was not until his second year that he started the improvement there. So the statement about Groh means zip.

Also, Groh was an NFL coach, so was Gailey. I believe some of the pack is condemning Gailey because he was a pro coach and knew nothing about the Division I teams. Does this same rationale apply to Groh?

It means absolutely zip that JTJ or anyone else stated six months ago or a year ago that Gailey could not get the job done. It is the same old sour grapes because their man did not get the job. Any person has a 50/50 chance of getting it right by taking one of two choices or chances.

It proves nothing. The only thing that will prove the ability of Gailey will be the performance of his team this coming year. Last year proves nothing because of the inability of O'Brien to coach the quarterbacks or offense.

The only thing the sour grapes may get you is more football players deserting the ship because of non-support by the pack and the confusion they bring to the school.

rolleyes.gif
rolleyes.gif
rolleyes.gif
 
Well you were right if what you were talking about was players not going to class. That's not what I thougth you meant though. Is there something else going on that I have't picked up on? Do you know why Pena left? Was he upset with Gailey or is he homesick? And if you knew we had 10 players who were going to flunk out why the hell didn't you tell anybody.
smile.gif
 
ncjacket, on December 30, 2002 I posted, inter alia, above the following with which you took issue. An excerpt of your response is included in my last post.

"Toward the end of this season I began hearing the same things from the players that I heard at the end of Bill Lewis's first year. The players' respect for Gailey is very low. The seniors basically have no respect for the guy."

They talk behind his back about the dumb things he does.

It is clear to me and many others that he is not the brightest bulb on the tree.

The players really want a hard nose coach with tough discipline - something that Bill Lewis wasn't and something that Chan Gailey is not.

Brothers and sisters we've got a real problem on our hands. This guy is not going to be able to win in the ACC and is not going to be able to beat Georgia - much less take us to the Promised Land."

If it is not clear to you by now that the Bill Lewis attitude, with its genesis in the lack of discipline, has insidiously assimulated into our football team, then you are missing something again way up there in Greensboro, North Carolina.
 
I would like to examine some statements made to see what they really mean.

It was stated the seniors had no respect for Gailey last year. It was stated they liked the relaxed practices, but then wondered at the end if it was practical. They also stated the discipline was not as strict under Gailey.

It is not surprising to take the kids from a previous coach who stressed discipline, place them under a coach with less strict discipline, and have them make comments about the new methods.

The comments would have been made by the same players, but would have been completely reversed had Gailey coached the previous year and O'Leary had coached last year.

It is common for players who are trained in one method to question the next coach with a different method. That is typical and has nothing to do with Gailey's coaching ability. It just means it is a different style than O'Leary's

Now, the players liked the idea of a relaxed practice, but used it as an excuse when things did not go well. That is also normal, but has nothing to do with the ability of the coach to win games.

The most relaxed coach I have ever seen, and was criticized in his day for not practicing physically, was one of the best, Bobby Dodd. Can we judge him as an inferior coach because his discipline and practices were not as tough as the other teams in his day?

Every coach has to be judged on his wins and losses, not how he matches up with another coach in his discipline or practices.

So, the poster here has admitted there were morale problems. It is hinted most of them were caused by the seniors.

Can it be, many of the seniors were some of the same group who fought the administration and wanted to use the bowl game to blackmail the AD into hiring Mac instead of Gailey?

Can it be that O'Brien and some of these seniors were part of the problem for last years lay downs in the UGA and Fresno State games? Was it a ploy by them hoping Gailey would be fired after the season? It is a possibility.

Was there even the possibility some of those players thought Gailey would be canned and O'Brien would be retained?

Since we know all coaches have different styles (Dodd versus hard core disciplined coaches of his time), it all comes down to wins and losses for a coach.

The truth of the matter is Gailey went 7-6 his first year. I have already compared it with O'Leary's record of 11-14 for his first 2 1/3 years. So it seems the whole truth of the matter is the wins and losses. Gailey has this year to see if his wins and losses improve or falls.

The truth of fairness and high morals speaks out to give Gailey the same fair chance as the other coaches, wins and losses. We will be able to judge him better after this year. It will then be fair and the moral thing to do.

If we go 8-5, improvement will have been made and we can look forward to the next year with more improvement.

I will be willing to bet, if we go 8-5, the same ones will still be calling for Gailey to be fired for some other reason.

wink.gif
 
Originally posted by bugboy:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Originally posted by Jerry the Jacket:
.... to Georgia Tech. They hire a pro coach (who just happens to be a Virginia alumni, key difference here) with the expectations of establishing a higher level of achievement on the gridiron. Groh burns with a passion and desire to see UVA a powerhouse. He goes out and recruits top talent and plays that talent. He sets a vision and directs his troops toward accomplishing that vision. The Cavaliers are on the way and will be Hell to play for us and everybody else going forward.

Gailey has no connection to Tech. He thinks this college stuff will be a snap compared to Pro ball. He expects to win but doesn't put in the preperation to do so. He misjudges our talent and waste a year where we had the potential to win the ACC. He inspires no one with his, "deer lost in the headlights look". He takes a program with so much potential and turns it south.

We really missed the boat.

Go Jackets!
<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">No offense, Jerry...but your post is absolute crap. First of all, where do you get this assumption that Gailey assumes it'll be easier? How do you know he didn't put in the preparation needed? You don't know that. You're just assuming things.

Also, after his first year, Groh's team went 5-7, UVA's first losing season in many, many years. Gailey, OTOH, kept Tech at the same level as what he inherited from that genius, GOL...7-5. How is that turning a program south?

Why do you think our talent was good enough to win the ACC? Jerry, we didn't have a defensive line. We didn't have one in 2001 either. Our only pass-rusher was basically out the entire season. Even when Gathers played, he was too sick to be effective. Our entire running back corps (not just TH) was decimated with injuries. We were breaking in a new QB...and a new defensive scheme.

BTW, our recruiting is going better than all the Stingtalk Beeware-ist recruiting gurus thought it would. Gailey can recruit, unlike what all you guys think.

You people that sit around in front of your computer screens and talk about how Chan's destroying our program make me sick. This guy has been on this campus for less than a full year. His first team, like many new coaches' first teams, was inconsistent. We won some games against teams that were better than us (including the game against your precious Al Groh) and we lost some we should have won. That happens when a team and a new staff are searching for that chemistry. But you guys want him fired. Nobody. I repeat...Nobody fires a head coach after only one year on the job.

Give Gailey the chance he deserves. Get off his G** D*** back.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">MAN SOME OF US ARE GETTING FIRE UP!!!!!!! BUT I DO AGREE WITH YOUR STATEMENT.
wink.gif
 
Originally posted by bobby dodds ghost:
All ACC opponents were beatable this year, probably for the first time since FSU joined. Our record should have been better, even with the injuries.
.
.
.
BOO
<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">TELL ME WHY OUR RECORD SHOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER EVEN WITH ALL THE INJURIES? i really would like to know.
confused.gif
 
Absoisee, above you stated the following:

"So, the poster here has admitted there were morale problems. It is hinted most of them were caused by the seniors."

What poster intimated that the morale problem was caused by the seniors. I didn't. You've made an incredible stretch in logic.

Even for a pollyanna, your post is incredible hogwash not worth refuting.

Face it - I hope not - but it appears that we are in the middle of a Bill Lewis type of meltdown. Or players are flunking our like flies, with more to come, and our recruits are showing up and leaving.

You don't get the sense that something is amiss?

If this were the 1950's and Chan Gailey was as smart as Bobby Dodd - then he might get away with lighter practices. But Chan Gailey ain't no Bobby Dodd.

And besides, Dodd was a disciplinarian- his teams were in church every Sunday and he had no qualms about kicking misfits off the team without regard for their talent - remember Billy Teas?
 
posted 12-31-2002 10:30 AM by bugboy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Goldbuzz,

If the things you say are true about player attitudes and lax practices and things not being corrected, etc...in time, it will become apparent through our play on the field. At this point, I have no reason to agree or disagree with you, as we posted the same record in 2002 as 2001. However, I caution about posting this kind of stuff, as recruits read these dang boards.

--------------------
Go Jackets!! ...end of quote by bugboy
.
.
Hey goldbuzz, you have been vindicated.
P.S. My drink offer still stands.
drinking.gif

.
.
BOO
 
I think it is Gailey's secret plan. He got drilled by team that had a dozen players that couldn't play becuause of academics so maybe he figures he can do the same thing.
 
Goldbuzz, here you go, a copy of part of a post from above.

"Toward the end of this season I began hearing the same things from the players that I heard at the end of Bill Lewis's first year. The players' respect for Gailey is very low. The seniors basically have no respect for the guy."

They talk behind his back about the dumb things he does.

It is clear to me and many others that he is not the brightest bulb on the tree.

GoldBuzz, seems to me it indicates last year's seniors had a morale problem.

rolleyes.gif
rolleyes.gif
rolleyes.gif
 
How does recognizing dumbness of a University of Florida phys ed major by a smart Georgia Tech student translate into the Tech student's problem?
 
Back
Top