Wes Durham on 790 this morning...

Well, I've been watching football a lot of years and I just watched two or three or four incredibly BAD calls against Tech, late in the game at BC and VPI. Both horrible calls, just horrible. Just put in replays for every judgement call, I just don't remember having all of these awful calls twenty years ago. Bring back the old rules where you could clobber anybody. Bring back tripping, spitting, whatever but take the stupid ACC officials out of the decison making.

Yes, I now realize that UGA won in the end by bitching about the Jasper Sanks fumble against us. Those SEC refs were ripped and guess who's been winning every close game since?

The truth is that the NCAA needs to hire professional referees and the ACC should lead the charge because ours absolutely suck. This issue has me so steamed that I would now support moving back to the SEC or starting our own conference with Clemson, FSU and Miami (CFU, USF, Tulane, etc.).

Just reading this issue again, has me all pissed off.
 
Interesting, but MD fans, BC fans, Clemson fans, Wake Forest fans, NCState fans, etc., all think there is a conspiracy against them. That probably means the refs screw up pretty evenly across the board.
 
midatlantech said:
Well, I've been watching football a lot of years and I just watched two or three or four incredibly BAD calls against Tech, late in the game at BC and VPI. Both horrible calls, just horrible. Just put in replays for every judgement call, I just don't remember having all of these awful calls twenty years ago. Bring back the old rules where you could clobber anybody. Bring back tripping, spitting, whatever but take the stupid ACC officials out of the decison making.

Yes, I now realize that UGA won in the end by bitching about the Jasper Sanks fumble against us. Those SEC refs were ripped and guess who's been winning every close game since?

The truth is that the NCAA needs to hire professional referees and the ACC should lead the charge because ours absolutely suck. This issue has me so steamed that I would now support moving back to the SEC or starting our own conference with Clemson, FSU and Miami (CFU, USF, Tulane, etc.).

Just reading this issue again, has me all pissed off.
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Yeah, cause those refs would clearly be better. ALL REFS SUCK if you ask fans. I do think ACC refs are among the worst, but have you actually watched the PAC 10? Those guys are ridiculous, they can't even get it right with replay most of the time.
 
ncjacket said:
Yeah, cause those refs would clearly be better. ALL REFS SUCK if you ask fans. I do think ACC refs are among the worst, but have you actually watched the PAC 10? Those guys are ridiculous, they can't even get it right with replay most of the time.
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True, but conference refs generally get one thing right: you don't mess with a tight game by calling a game changing penalty that is questionable. Cooper's interference was absolutely non-existence which equals questionable to a ref. It got called. The hit out of bounds was a joke, but questionable certainly. It got called.

Now I will add that MJ absolutely blew it for us on the next play. Absolutely lazy, absolutely inept and one could argue that he cost us the game because he was trying to be nice and just ease the QB off the field. Screw them all, go after their knees next time. Same with Cooper. If the ACC wants us to follow every rule to the 't' but ignore the spirit of the game, then fine.

That's the point here, nobody was doing anything to cheat or break the spirit of college football, but the ACC refs are anal Swofford sniffers and they used their power to completely, totally shift the balance of the game against Tech v. UGA (Ball fumble was a joke), v. VPI, v. BC, v. ND (if they were the refs).

Lastly, as I stated before the game, the ACC needed Tech to win that game. Other conferences, need Ohio States or Oregons to win important games and amazingly calls seem to go their way, when in doubt. Not the ACC.

And regarding ACC basketball, Gary Williams has been preaching for a long long time that the ACC = UNC and Duke and nothing else. His arguments hold water, when he points out that key tv slots are always held for them, etc. and how that hurts the other programs in recruiting, etc. But he generally is referring to the horrible officiating. Why do other schools never have a coach stay very long? They all get tired of fighting the fight.

As my SEC friend said the other day "based on what I see, Paul Johnson won't be at Tech for very long."
 
ncjacket said:
Because so far, they have been disciplined.
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You don't get it.

Teams get called for less penalties WHEN THEY PLAY TECH. It doesn't have to do with how disciplined they are, it has to do with one of two possibilities:

1) SOME MIRACULOUS CIRCUMSTANCE THAT ALLOWS THEM TO PLAY MISTAKE FREE BALL ONLY WHEN THEY PLAY TECH, OR

2) Officiating bias.

I think I'll go with 2, since that's what WES DURHAM thinks it is, and is so adamant about it he's willing to say so ON THE RADIO.
 
Interesting, but MD fans, BC fans, Clemson fans, Wake Forest fans, NCState fans, etc., all think there is a conspiracy against them. That probably means the refs screw up pretty evenly across the board.
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Yeah, except THEY DON'T. Reread these stats:

PENALTIES G No. Yards Avg/G
1. Boston College 2 2 16 8.0
2. Virginia Tech 3 13 75 25.0
3. Duke 3 11 91 30.3
4. Maryland 3 12 107 35.7
5. Miami 2 10 74 37.0
6. North Carolina 2 8 75 37.5
7. NC State 3 18 133 44.3
8. Wake Forest 2 9 100 50.0
9. Florida State 2 13 103 51.5
10. Clemson 3 19 173 57.7
11. Virginia 3 17 175 58.3
12. Georgia Tech 3 18 176 58.7

OPPONENT PENALTIES G No. Yards Avg/G
1. Wake Forest 2 14 127 63.5
2. Virginia Tech 3 19 153 51.0
3. North Carolina 2 13 99 49.5
4. NC State 3 17 148 49.3
5. Maryland 3 18 147 49.0
6. Florida State 2 12 92 46.0
7. Virginia 3 16 130 43.3
8. Clemson 3 19 125 41.7
9. Boston College 2 8 75 37.5
10. Duke 3 11 108 36.0
11. Miami 2 9 52 26.0
12. Georgia Tech 3 9 71 23.7
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The first one might be explained away as "Tech is undisciplined," but the 2nd one isn't possible without officiating bias.

Someone go back 5 years and post the net stats every year. Do the same for basketball while you're at it. Particularly the "opponent penalties" (2nd) stat.

As my SEC friend said the other day "based on what I see, Paul Johnson won't be at Tech for very long."
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This happens with every team that challenges Swofford's faves. Swofford needs a bullet in the face.
 
beej67 said:
You don't get it.

Teams get called for less penalties WHEN THEY PLAY TECH. It doesn't have to do with how disciplined they are, it has to do with one of two possibilities:

1) SOME MIRACULOUS CIRCUMSTANCE THAT ALLOWS THEM TO PLAY MISTAKE FREE BALL ONLY WHEN THEY PLAY TECH, OR

2) Officiating bias.

I think I'll go with 2, since that's what WES DURHAM thinks it is, and is so adamant about it he's willing to say so ON THE RADIO.
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Aren't those stats from two games this season, many of which weren't conference games? How many of those games were actually reffed by ACC crews? Do you think that two games per team, some of which aren't even relevant because they weren't reffed by ACC officials, is a viable sample size? What were the numbers over last season?

EDIT: Never mind, I found it. Give me a couple minutes to compile it.
 
Okay, here we go. These numbers are all for IN CONFERENCE ACC GAMES ONLY:

In 2007, we were penalized 55.1 yards/game, ranking 9th in the ACC.
In 2006, we were penalized 57.2 yards/game, ranking 10th in the ACC.
In 2005, we were penalized 61.4 yards/game, ranking 6th in the ACC.
In 2004, we were penalized 54.8 yards/game, again ranking 6th in the ACC.

In 2007, our opponents were penalized 48.9 yards/game, ranking 8th in the ACC.
In 2006, our opponents were penalized 60.1 yards/game, ranking 2nd in the ACC.
In 2005, our opponents were penalized 63.1 yards/game, ranking 4th in the ACC.
In 2004, our opponents were penalized 75.9 yards/game, ranking 1st in the ACC.

So to answer your question about how to explain away the fact that we are penalized more and get less called for us than any other team...we're not. You were just using a ridiculously small sample size. Yeah, we were penalized a little more than average, but Chan's teams were never known for being especially disciplined. As for our opponents, my guess would be that under Tenuta's blitz heavy scheme, defenses held far more often, resulting in our doing so well in opponent penalties(this would answer how a team's play could affect the penalties called on their opponents). Anyway, you'll have to use something other than statistics to prove the supposed ACC bias against Tech.
 
Essobee said:
I'm still trying to get over having to share the 1990 national championship because of bonehead officiating.
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But you're probably over making the 1991 Final Four because of bonehead officiating, right?
 
BarrelORum said:
Trust me. I got all my bitching out after the game. We're not going to get anything changed crying about it. Swofford needs to do something and he's proven time and again that he is a massive pussy.
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BOR don't you mean WUSSY ie wimp pussy!
 
midatlantech said:
If you're referring to making a one hundreth of a second call on whether a shot got off, I think that is a big difference.
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True, but he was standing on the 3 point line for longer than that.:eek: Two of them on the same road to the FF, well...:rolleyes:

A blown call is a blown call. Are you saying some should be excusable, despite the fact that somebody always gets screwed? Where are we drawing the line?
 
One observation + one ?...

1) b%tch&ng and moaning about referees always seems to occur more on the losing team's board than on the winning team's board. I noticed on this thread that the bad call on Kenny Anderson's 3 point shot was certainly understandable but the helmet to helmet call which occurred in about the same time frame somehow was not. That's curious although calls that go in our favor seem to be better rationalized than ones that do not.

2) Why do people get more pi$$ed about referees and their calls, which are out of the team's/coaches control than turnovers and penalties, which are within the control of the GT football organization? Do we as fans have an inclination to shelter our own? is it more gratifying to heap scorn on some anonymous guy in a striped shirt?
 
Here's the reason we're dead last in penalties and penalties against. WE PLAYED BOTH ACC GAMES ON THE ROAD!!! The fact of the matter is refs are complete and utter pussies when it comes to calling penalties on home teams.
 
knoxjacket said:
Here's the reason we're dead last in penalties and penalties against. WE PLAYED BOTH ACC GAMES ON THE ROAD!!! The fact of the matter is refs are complete and utter pussies when it comes to calling penalties on home teams.
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1257477.jpeg

Disagrees
610x.jpg

Also disagrees

(BC last year)
 
beej67 said:
The first one might be explained away as "Tech is undisciplined," but the 2nd one isn't possible without officiating bias.

This happens with every team that challenges Swofford's faves. Swofford needs a bullet in the face.
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You're way too intelligent to actually believe any this. I'm usually good at picking up sarcasm/satire, so maybe my radar is off here.
 
clapper said:
True, but he was standing on the 3 point line for longer than that.:eek: Two of them on the same road to the FF, well...:rolleyes:

A blown call is a blown call. Are you saying some should be excusable, despite the fact that somebody always gets screwed? Where are we drawing the line?
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Funny, but certainly you have a good argument that I figure isn't worth arguing. I'll leave it on this. I was at the BC game and the calls were right in front of me and every single time, the guys from BC behind me all said "uh, we got another call". ANd I watched the VPI game and my friend watching said "uh, you aren't getting the calls."
 
midatlantech said:
Funny, but certainly you have a good argument that I figure isn't worth arguing. I'll leave it on this. I was at the BC game and the calls were right in front of me and every single time, the guys from BC behind me all said "uh, we got another call". ANd I watched the VPI game and my friend watching said "uh, you aren't getting the calls."
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Well, two anecdotal accounts, that seals it. I'm convinced.
 
What I don't get is everyone in here sticking up for the bad call.

Hell, the "VOICE OF THE YELLOW JACKETS", Wes Durham, was mad about it.

Our head coach, Paul Johnson, was mad too.

WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE!?!?!
 
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