Who actually enjoys watching this offensive style?

[ramblin' wagon]

I didn't ready any post in this thread. Any offense that sucks is painful to watch. Any who has ever watched college football knows that. Texas Tech is #1 in ypg and guess what, they suck.

 

[THWG247]

Even with the incompetent coaching of CCG, his offense managed to beat SoCal, Auburn (twice), Clemson, and UM a few times.
No this isn't an endorsement of CCG but to say this scheme is the "ONLY" system that we can win with isn't accurate.

With the right personnel, any system can work.

Not so fast my friend, we won those games with Tenuta's Defense, in spite of Gailey's sh!t offense

 

[GT to AZ]

I started following Tech football (and really football in general) during the Gailey era. I think it must have turned me into an old soul, because I dig this offense.

You mean you don't long for the days of the Run, Run, Pass, Punt offense that we had during the Gailey era? Looks like the OP does.

 

[johncu]

Did you literally fail to read that I mistook the win against BYU (a late night west-coast game 13 years ago) as a win against USC and immediately corrected myself? That I made an error?

I'm pretty sure you did. And CCG did manage to defeat BYU, something CPJ hasn't. I'm pretty sure you skipped over that part too.

Dude... Seriously? YOU brought up SoCal as a quality win, and (wrongly) attributed it to Gailey. Again, YOU were the one who chose SoCal as an example of an impressive win. Then when you realized that it was actually CPJ who beat them, you immediately discredited SoCal as an unimpressive win when YOU were the one who mentioned it.

We get it. You don't like the offense. That's fine. But pretending like it inherently sucks or is the reason we are doing poorly right now is just asinine. PJ is as good (if not better) than any coach we've had since Dodd, and the vast majority of his failures are due to recruiting and defense. Yet you go through thread after thread, attacking the offense. It just doesn't even make sense.

If 2016 looks anything like 2015 did, CPJ's seat will be on fire. But let's be clear: the reasons will be because he was unable to recruit elite players, hire an effective DC, or figure out WTF is wrong with our OL. NOT because his offense didn't work.

 

[GT to AZ]

If 2016 looks anything like 2015 did, CPJ's seat will be on fire. But let's be clear: the reasons will be because he was unable to recruit elite players, hire an effective DC, or figure out WTF is wrong with our OL. NOT because his offense didn't work.

Fixing the OL is my biggest complaint. We've complained about special teams and DC's in the past and he's fixed those issues. The OL continues to struggle and we don't appear to have an answer.

 

[BuzzCzar]

I think our players are plenty smart enough to be able to run plays from different sets. It's our coach who is a little short on the smart side.

It seems like its comments like these that just prove that many fans are simply dumbasses

 

[BuzzCzar]

If you run the schemes that rely on a great QB, then you have to be able to sign top QBs... we gonna be able to do that?
Pro set, spread, etc with an average QB is not gonna work
Plus you need a great WR and a good TE for some

A scheme like Fridge seems a little easier to get a QB for, sorta like how we got JT5. Its more the issue of getting OL that are quick and still big enough with that scheme. Its more similar to CPJs recruiting it seems to me. Many ABack style backs and flankers

I think our odds are better not going with a pro set type O

 

[RamblinWreck92]

Not so fast my friend, we won those games with Tenuta's Defense, in spite of Gailey's sh!t offense

I'd make the same argument for our win against BC this year.

Dude... Seriously? YOU brought up SoCal as a quality win, and (wrongly) attributed it to Gailey. Again, YOU were the one who chose SoCal as an example of an impressive win. Then when you realized that it was actually CPJ who beat them, you immediately discredited SoCal as an unimpressive win when YOU were the one who mentioned it.

We get it. You don't like the offense. That's fine. But pretending like it inherently sucks or is the reason we are doing poorly right now is just asinine. PJ is as good (if not better) than any coach we've had since Dodd, and the vast majority of his failures are due to recruiting and defense. Yet you go through thread after thread, attacking the offense. It just doesn't even make sense.

If 2016 looks anything like 2015 did, CPJ's seat will be on fire. But let's be clear: the reasons will be because he was unable to recruit elite players, hire an effective DC, or figure out WTF is wrong with our OL. NOT because his offense didn't work.

CPJ is no more than the 3rd best coach we've had since Dodd (Ross, GOL arguably better).

This offense shits the bed against most of the elite teams we play as evidenced by our record against the teams not named UVA, BC, et al on our schedule. It's not THE reason we're doing poorly but it's certainly part of the reason.

And who's this "We" stuff? There are plenty of fans here & elsewhere in total agreement with me.

And we get it - you're more of a fan of the scheme and coach than you are of the school.

 

[getwrecked]

To risk stating the obvious...any offense will work if you have players who can execute it. For whatever reason, recruiting, coaching, chemistry, morale, pick one, we aren't executing the offense. Does anyone really think that PJ has run this offense for 32 years, it worked well only 2 years ago and now for some reason it has been figured out? Now, I'm not defending PJ. All of those possibilities I mentioned of why it is we may not be executing the offense - are all in his bailiwick. He's the head ball coach here. It's his baby. But the failure of the offense is not inherent to the scheme. It is inherent to lack of execution.

Reminds me of when John McKay was coaching Tampa Bay and they were in the midst of their infamous 26 game losing streak. A reporter asked about his team's execution and he said, "I'm all for it."

 

[johncu]

I'd make the same argument for our win against BC this year.


CPJ is no more than the 3rd best coach we've had since Dodd (Ross, GOL arguably better).

This offense öööös the bed against most of the elite teams we play as evidenced by our record against the teams not named UVA, BC, et al on our schedule. It's not THE reason we're doing poorly but it's certainly part of the reason.

And who's this "We" stuff? There are plenty of fans here & elsewhere in total agreement with me.

And we get it - you're more of a fan of the scheme and coach than you are of the school.

Your perception is just so far from reality. Our recruiting classes are rarely even in the top 40. Of course we shit the ööööing bed against elite teams - they have much better players than us (which I already said falls on the coach). I'm not going to waste my time looking up and posting the same statistics that get rehashed every year, but Paul Johnsons's record against elite teams, especially at home, is BY FAR the best in recent memory. That's just a fact. Look at the end of 2014 - we beat Clemson, UGA, and MSU, and ran all over FSU. All teams with elite talent that year, and our offense ran roughshod over them, except Clemson who we didn't need to. How do you explain that in your fantasyland of us losing because of offensive scheme and not because of defense, mediocre recruiting, or poor teaching of blocking fundamentals.

And yes, I am a fan of the scheme, but I already said that PJ's job would be in jeopardy if we missed another bowl, and I would have to agree with that. It's possible to like the offense and still criticize the coach, you know. Just like it's possible to dislike the offense and still acknowledge the coach's accomplishments.

 

[gth874t]

I'd make the same argument for our win against BC this year.


CPJ is no more than the 3rd best coach we've had since Dodd (Ross, GOL arguably better).

This offense öööös the bed against most of the elite teams we play as evidenced by our record against the teams not named UVA, BC, et al on our schedule. It's not THE reason we're doing poorly but it's certainly part of the reason.

And who's this "We" stuff? There are plenty of fans here & elsewhere in total agreement with me.

And we get it - you're more of a fan of the scheme and coach than you are of the school.

In regards to facing elite teams - is this not an issue for every team that faces an elite team?

Not trying to be a smart alec, but I don't think we're the only ones that face offensive difficulty against elite teams.

 

[johncu]

And as far as "many" other people agreeing with you, I think the poll in this thread speaks for itself. You are in the clear minority. We have gone 4-11 in our last 15 games and 79% of our fans still like the offense.

Enough said.

 

[gth874t]

Your perception is just so far from reality. Our recruiting classes are rarely even in the top 40. Of course we öööö the ööööing bed against elite teams - they have much better players than us (which I already said falls on the coach). I'm not going to waste my time looking up and posting the same statistics that get rehashed every year, but Paul Johnsons's record against elite teams, especially at home, is BY FAR the best in recent memory. That's just a fact. Look at the end of 2014 - we beat Clemson, UGA, and MSU, and ran all over FSU. All teams with elite talent that year, and our offense ran roughshod over them, except Clemson who we didn't need to. How do you explain that in your fantasyland of us losing because of offensive scheme and not because of defense, mediocre recruiting, or poor teaching of blocking fundamentals.

And yes, I am a fan of the scheme, but I already said that PJ's job would be in jeopardy if we missed another bowl, and I would have to agree with that. It's possible to like the offense and still criticize the coach, you know. Just like it's possible to dislike the offense and still acknowledge the coach's accomplishments.

+1 to all of this.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I'd make the same argument for our win against BC this year.


CPJ is no more than the 3rd best coach we've had since Dodd (Ross, GOL arguably better).

This offense öööös the bed against most of the elite teams we play as evidenced by our record against the teams not named UVA, BC, et al on our schedule. It's not THE reason we're doing poorly but it's certainly part of the reason.

And who's this "We" stuff? There are plenty of fans here & elsewhere in total agreement with me.

And we get it - you're more of a fan of the scheme and coach than you are of the school.

I would be curious to see, quantitatively, our offense's performance vs "elite teams" since 2008. In terms of quantifying, you might want to look at our Points Per Possession and Yards Per Play during the game, and compare them to our average for the season in which the game was played. Why not add offensive turnovers as well? This would probably be a good starting point. Also, if you wanted to get more detailed, you could do the same analysis for each opponent of these "elite teams". It would also behoove you to qualitatively explain what constitutes an "elite team".

You may say to yourself and other StingTalk personnel "I don't need to do any analysis, I know what I see and it sucks" - and you could be correct, but you don't know until you do the analysis. For example, I suspected you post more during a loss and less during the winning game weeks, but I didn't know until you were randomly selected for analysis. It turned out my thoughts were correct and backed by data, and you suck as well.

Finally, I am past due on keeping you up to date on your posting activity as it relates to a win/loss, so I will work on that shortly.

Thanks for your contributions to StingTalk, and enjoy your Thursday.

 

[RamblinWreck92]

Your perception is just so far from reality. Our recruiting classes are rarely even in the top 40. Of course we öööö the ööööing bed against elite teams - they have much better players than us (which I already said falls on the coach). I'm not going to waste my time looking up and posting the same statistics that get rehashed every year, but Paul Johnsons's record against elite teams, especially at home, is BY FAR the best in recent memory. That's just a fact. Look at the end of 2014 - we beat Clemson, UGA, and MSU, and ran all over FSU. All teams with elite talent that year, and our offense ran roughshod over them, except Clemson who we didn't need to. How do you explain that in your fantasyland of us losing because of offensive scheme and not because of defense, mediocre recruiting, or poor teaching of blocking fundamentals.

And yes, I am a fan of the scheme, but I already said that PJ's job would be in jeopardy if we missed another bowl, and I would have to agree with that. It's possible to like the offense and still criticize the coach, you know. Just like it's possible to dislike the offense and still acknowledge the coach's accomplishments.

MY perception is 'far from reality'? Ummm..we lost to FSU in 2014. I know stats are important to the fans of this scheme but wins are kinda important too. And I like the "We didn't need to" line for Clemson to cover the fact that they stifled the offense in 2014 2015, and 2016.

I do acknowledge CPJ's accomplishments. I (nor anyone I've seen, actually) do not want a return of CCG, who was the definition of mediocre. But the scheme is supposed to be some great field-leveler / equalizer for us, and with the exception of 2014, it hasn't been. VPI, UM, mutts have 75% winning percentages (or better) against it (no, I didn't look that # up but it's the mutts winning % and I recall only beating VPI twice since 2008...the U only once in the last decade). A 25 % success rate isn't something I can get very excited about and from the looks of the stands at BDS lately, neither are very man fans.

 

[RamblinWreck92]

And as far as "many" other people agreeing with you, I think the poll in this thread speaks for itself. You are in the clear minority. We have gone 4-11 in our last 15 games and 79% of our fans still like the offense.

Enough said.

LMAO - 79% of a small group of fans in a CPJ Echo Chamber clicking a poll <> "79% of our fans". I know of no fan outside this forum that likes this offense so to use your "logic": "Outside of StingTalk, 100% of Tech fans aren't happy with the offense".

Do you even sample-size bro?

 

[Diseqc]

Your perception is just so far from reality. Our recruiting classes are rarely even in the top 40.

You realize that recruiting is his responsibility as well?

He can't go to publix, pick out a bunch of shit groceries, and then complain about the grocery quality when people don't like his food.

 

[RamblinWreck92]

I would be curious to see, quantitatively, our offense's performance vs "elite teams" since 2008. In terms of quantifying, you might want to look at our Points Per Possession and Yards Per Play during the game, and compare them to our average for the season in which the game was played. Why not add offensive turnovers as well? This would probably be a good starting point. Also, if you wanted to get more detailed, you could do the same analysis for each opponent of these "elite teams". It would also behoove you to qualitatively explain what constitutes an "elite team".

You may say to yourself and other StingTalk personnel "I don't need to do any analysis, I know what I see and it sucks" - and you could be correct, but you don't know until you do the analysis. For example, I suspected you post more during a loss and less during the winning game weeks, but I didn't know until you were randomly selected for analysis. It turned out my thoughts were correct and backed by data, and you suck as well.

Finally, I am past due on keeping you up to date on your posting activity as it relates to a win/loss, so I will work on that shortly.

Thanks for your contributions to StingTalk, and enjoy your Thursday.

Nope - not gonna get into a Stats battle because the only people who care that we might have outrushed someone in a ööööing loss are CPJ fans.

Wins and losses, my friend. That's the only thing that matters. Off the top of my head, we've got a 25% success rate of victory against mutts and similar rates against UM and VPI. I think we're .500 vs FSU & Clemson or close to it. I don't consider UNC or Duke to be elite, which helps you since we've lost 2 IAR to 'em. Only a truly apathetic fan or a complete loser is happy with a 25% success rate.

I could not begin to care less about the stats in any game that's a loss. There's nothing to analyze about going 2-6 vs some awful mutt teams (the 2009 team fired their DC after beating us and the 2015 team fired CMR ). There's nothing to analyze about watching Bud Foster annually stifle CPJ's offense. There's nothing to analyze about how the U is 7-2 vs CPJ (and these haven't been great UM teams).

Your fascination, nay, obsession with my posting activity is flattering and perverse at the same time. I guess people need to do something with their spare time.

 

[RamblinWreck92]

You realize that recruiting is his responsibility as well?

He can't go to publix, pick out a bunch of öööö groceries, and then complain about the grocery quality when people don't like his food.

If he didn't have the commitment to quality groceries, he can't expect the food to be good!!

 

[Ish]

There are issues with the foundation of our program that go beyond Johnson. If you think some hotshot new coach is going to come in here and start landing a bunch of 4 star guys, you are mistaken.