Calvin Johnson... mediocre pro.

By the way mmbt0ne, how many times have you actually watched a Detroit game over the last two years? How many? Because if you did you wouldn't argue with me that Calvin doesn't get separation from the Dbs unless he's running a fly pattern.
 
BarrelORum said:
So you're saying that passing plays are designed to go to ONE guy and ONE guy only?
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I'm not sure what you are trying to argue here, because it seems the focus of the thread has shifted throughout. Calvin Johnson, this year, has underachiever. Previous to this year, he has had very little help. Last year Calvin had a rookie qb, rookie tight end, and absolutely nothing on the other side of the field to take any pressure off of him. I agree that Calvin needs to work on separating from DBs, but when there is always a safety over top plus the other teams best cb guarding you it makes things harder.

Calvin is a top 15 receiver and I don't think that's arguable. Randy moss, Reggie Wayne, andre johnson, Larry Fitzgerald are the only guys I would clearly put ahead of him. Miles Austin, Brandon Marshall, Roddy white, Greg Jennings are all around the same tier as Calvin Johnson.
 
BarrelORum said:
So you're saying that passing plays are designed to go to ONE guy and ONE guy only?
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Well that is the point you were trying to make a second ago about Calvin not being good because he wasn't targeted as much as Larry Fitzgerald.
 
Barrel, I just want to reiterate: You are an idiot.

Hopefully the Lions draft AJ Green and allow CJ to go somewhere else and actually win championships.
 
BarrelORum said:
Congrats, We agree. Calvin had one great year out of 4.
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He's played 3 years and 4 games. Saying that he's had one great year out of 4 seems a bit of a stretch, eh?

Not to mention that his rookie year was better than Michael Irvin's first 3 years, better than TO's rookie year, better than Brandon Marshall's rookie year, better than Greg Jenning's rookie year, better than Roddy White's first two years, etc.

I guess if you don't put up Randy Moss numbers you're mediocre.
 
sutt0n said:
I'm not sure what you are trying to argue here, because it seems the focus of the thread has shifted throughout. Calvin Johnson, this year, has underachiever. Previous to this year, he has had very little help. Last year Calvin had a rookie qb, rookie tight end, and absolutely nothing on the other side of the field to take any pressure off of him. I agree that Calvin needs to work on separating from DBs, but when there is always a safety over top plus the other teams best cb guarding you it makes things harder.

Calvin is a top 15 receiver and I don't think that's arguable. Randy moss, Reggie Wayne, andre johnson, Larry Fitzgerald are the only guys I would clearly put ahead of him. Miles Austin, Brandon Marshall, Roddy white, Greg Jennings are all around the same tier as Calvin Johnson.
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I would agree with this. My only addition is that I think Calvin Johnson should be light years better than Miles Austin, Brandon Marshall, Roddy White and Greg Jennings. And he is not.

Take the second game of the season versus this past game. Its like two different Calvins. Calvin was targeted ten times and caught two balls. He had a corner out muscle him on a hook route and picked off the ball. He wasn't getting any separation from the db, and that was in single coverage. Its just disappointing.
 
mmbt0ne said:
Well that is the point you were trying to make a second ago about Calvin not being good because he wasn't targeted as much as Larry Fitzgerald.
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No. You missed my point.

I made the comment earlier in this thread and its a fact if you watch Calvin play, is he doesn't get good separation from opposing DB's. This is why I think he has NOT lived up to expectations. And based on the fact that he is targeted less than other go to WR's and he catches less percentage of total balls caught, AND he has less percentage of his teams passing yardage, than other go to WRs, would seem to indicate that Calvin isn't getting open and that would make sense considering he gets no separation from the DBs.
 
Xihix said:
Barrel, I just want to reiterate: You are an idiot.

Hopefully the Lions draft AJ Green and allow CJ to go somewhere else and actually win championships.
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Based on what? Where am I wrong? Why don't you actually make an argument instead of piggy backing on everyone else douche bag. You have the least amount of original thought process on the entire board.
 
ncjacket said:
No, but when he's not the first option, and that guy is open, it will make a difference in how many balls he gets.
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How many passing plays do you think Calvin is not the first option at the WR position? Calvin has a hard time getting open and if you watch the games, that's the fact.
 
He had a decent game against the reigning NFL Defensive MVP this last week.
 
gthog61 said:
He had a decent game against the reigning NFL Defensive MVP this last week.
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When I made this post he was going up against an average defense, had about 4 passes hit him in the hands, had a DB that was 8" shorter than him jump his route and intercept the ball on a hook pattern, and only caught two passes.
 
BarrelORum said:
How many passing plays do you think Calvin is not the first option at the WR position? Calvin has a hard time getting open and if you watch the games, that's the fact.
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I don't know, and neither do you. I haven't had any reason to watch the Lions this year, but I have listened to opposing radio broadcasts on Sirius talk about how he can't be covered in the red zone.
 
ncjacket said:
I don't know, and neither do you. I haven't had any reason to watch the Lions this year, but I have listened to opposing radio broadcasts on Sirius talk about how he can't be covered in the red zone.
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Well, having seen about 16 or so games over the last two seasons from front to end (Direct TV Sunday Ticket package is awesome) I can say that my opinion on it is pretty well informed.

Again, when this post was made three weeks ago, Calvin had ten targets, two caught balls, and about 4 drops. He also had a defender cut off his hook pattern to intercept the ball and at no point was he open. Every play one or two DB's were all up in his schnizzle and he couldn't shake them.

That's been pretty typical over the last two years which leaves me to conclude that he desperately needs to work on his route running.

Also, during that game the announcers even talked about how Calvin needs to step up if he wants to be a premiere receiver in the NFL.
 
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