Coleman Rudolph on 680 today...

Originally posted by ylojk8:
BEESerk .. glad to hear that the stadium expansion was ill advised. now that you said it, i'm sure it is. i wonder why you pledged a dollar amount for it in the first place. braine smooth talked you i'm sure.

o'leary wanted it done. braine has got it done. o'leary is gone, braine will be gone one day, sooner or later. the stadium expansion is here to stay along with the ACC expansion.

you pledged to donate the money to tech for stadium expansion .. not dave braine. believe whatever you want. yeah, braine is taking credit for it .. i don't care who takes credit for it, the money is going to the stadium expansion.

let me also inform you that that was a legal document. you told your alma mater that you would pay them x amount of $$ on a schedule of so and so and you signed off on it. at least that was how i pledged.

maybe your's is a different case. there were no conditions on the pledge. maybe you put down a list of conditions that were to be met and they are not being met so your pledge is not valid anymore .. some sort of "prenuptial" agreement LOL

oh well. tough times bring out the worst and the best in individuals .. you seem to fall in the former. yeah, let me know how much you "pledged" that you are now going to renege. if i can afford to cover for you, i will definitely do so.

i would also like you to be courteous enough to write an email to dave braine and let him know that you had pledged but won't go through with it so that Tech doesn't you know .. count on you .. you know .. cause you're not worthy of being counted upon by your alma mater.
<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">You seem to have a personal problem with me. Not sure why... as I don't know you, and to my recollection I have never done anything to you. You seem to only want to find people you disagree with and attack them personally on an internet message board. I guess that gets your rocks off or something.

I can see now that you want nothing more than to get into a pissing contest. Ain't gonna happen with me unfortunately. I have said my piece publicly. If you want to continue this discussion and find out just how much of a jerk I am, I sent you a private message on how we can make arrangements.
 
BEESerk, i have received and read your private email. i too will respond to your email in privacy.

but let me address the points that you have brought up publicly.

i don't have a "personal" problem with you. i have a "personal" problem with everyone who pledges money to tech and then reneges.

you keep saying that you are supporting incompetence if you give braine any money. you are now coming up with new points like the stadium expansion was ill advised.

it doesn't matter if dave braine is incompetent and if the stadium expansion is ill advised in your opinion. yuo should have thought about those issues before you pledged.

what matters is this. you pledged, without conditions, to give money to the AA. it does have legal ramifications because you signed off on a piece of paper (calling out lawbee to confirm or deny).

that money was pledged, and therefore is being counted upon by the AA.

now that Tech has fallen into tough times, you want to back out of a pledge. i have a problem with that. i have a huge problem with that. i also have a problem with anyone who doesn't see that there's a problem with that.

if you hadn't made a pledge, go ahead, withdraw your support, do whatever pleases you, your life.

if you however, sign off on a pledge, you are, in my eyes, in my opinion, honor bound to carry it out.

as far as pissing contests go, you pissed on tech. i cannot compete with that. you are the champion of pissing contests.

correct me if i'm wrong. i've asked you 3 times now, did you make conditions while you pledged? did you? did you sign a "prenup"?

now the stadium expansion is ill advisable in your eyes. why did you pledge to give money to dave braine for the expansion in the first place?
 
Since you manages to leave the personal attacks out on this one, I will answer these one by one so you can get it through your head.

i don't have a "personal" problem with you. i have a "personal" problem with everyone who pledges money to tech and then reneges.

yeah right, you just walk up to any one on the street that you don't know and call them filfth, jerk, and suggest that they are whoring their mothers simply because you don't like something they did. you got some pretty big keyboard muscles my friend.

you keep saying that you are supporting incompetence if you give braine any money. you are now coming up with new points like the stadium expansion was ill advised.

Why is this concept so hard for you to understand? BOR and many others seem to understand this rather easily. It isn't a far fetched idea. BIG MONEY alumni threaten and have threatened to pull their funding for various reasons over the years, inluding Braine's lack of ability. So are those big money alumni filfth and jerks too? Ylo, you need to get a grip on reailty. It isn't just the stadium expansion. It is letting 10 players flunk out. It is the asenine parking policy. it is the "enhanced seating" that we can't sell. I have always thought the exapnsion wasn't a good idea. We couldn't sell BDS out before, so why add seats? Just because I happened to mention it now doesn't mean I didn't think it before.

it doesn't matter if dave braine is incompetent and if the stadium expansion is ill advised in your opinion. yuo should have thought about those issues before you pledged.

You aren't really being serious about the first statement are you? That is so laughable, I can't even respond. Before I made the pledge though, I didn't think Braine was incompetent, and didn't know that Braine was going to lie about reseating, that Braine would price GT fans out of the "enhanced seating", that Braine would reduce the number of parking passes you could get, and that Braine would have the audacity to actually raise the price of parking passes. If you can't understand BOR's post about acting in "Good Faith", then there really isn't much point in discussing this further. You simply are too closed minded or too ignorant to understand the reality of things.

what matters is this. you pledged, without conditions, to give money to the AA. it does have legal ramifications because you signed off on a piece of paper (calling out lawbee to confirm or deny).

pfffft! "Legal Ramifications". If you need lawbee to explain the difference in a legaly binding contract and a pledge card, then you are more naive than I thought.

that money was pledged, and therefore is being counted upon by the AA.

now that Tech has fallen into tough times, you want to back out of a pledge. i have a problem with that. i have a huge problem with that. i also have a problem with anyone who doesn't see that there's a problem with that.


Well see this is where my view of the world is vastly different than your view of the world. The Georgia Institute of Technology has not fallen into tough times. The majority of sports at Tech have not fallen into tough times. The football program and its fans have fallen into tough times. Who is responsible for the tough times? Me? You? Gailey? I think not. It all rests squarely on David Braine's shoulders. Braine knows it too, that is why he tendered his resignation. Unfortunately Clough for whatever reason didn' accept it.

It isn't just me that you need to be mad at. For Braine to understand that he needed to resign, there obviously are some other pretty vocal Tech fans expressing their displeasure. Are you going to call all of them jerks and filfth? If we knew for fact that Kim King, Drew Hearn, Marty Huntsinger, et al had threatened to pull their money would you call them filfth and a jerk too?

if you hadn't made a pledge, go ahead, withdraw your support, do whatever pleases you, your life.

if you however, sign off on a pledge, you are, in my eyes, in my opinion, honor bound to carry it out.


Why do you think it pleases me? It saddens me to have to do that, but I will not tolerate the crap the eminates from GTAA anymore. Maybe after a few more years of giving money and having Dave give you the finger over and over again you might begin to understand what I and MANY GT fans are saying right now.

correct me if i'm wrong. i've asked you 3 times now, did you make conditions while you pledged? did you? did you sign a "prenup"?

It is an irrelevant question that doesn't need answering. How about this... what if all of a sudden I got laid off or had some medical circumstances that made it financially IMPOSSIBLE to meet my pledge? Am I still filfth and a jerk? Things like that do happen in real life, but your ignorance of such things prevents you from following such logic. No I didn't write in any condition, and GT didn't write in any legal stipulations that I had to actually pay it either.

now the stadium expansion is ill advisable in your eyes. why did you pledge to give money to dave braine for the expansion in the first place

I have already answered that. I made the pledge in "Good Faith". Dave Braine is the one who has failed in this relationship.
 
BEESerk i will only respond to one point because that is the only point that i deem worthy of a response.

if you had a medical hardhsip, if you got laid off, if you made a pledge and cannot fulfill it because of such reasons, your alma mater and i would understand.

that's not the case.

there were no conditions placed when you signed off on that pledge. you and i both know that. "good faith" .. bullshit! withdraw all the $$ you give to tech, but don't dishonor a pledge.

here, i'll help you out. here's the meaning of the word "pledge" from webster.

"pledge: a binding promise or agreement to do or forbear. a person who has so promised."

did at any time tech pledge anything to you, which it has reneged upon?

give your support when you deem that it's deserved the least, cause that's when it's wanted the most.

and that pledge document will stand in court. it has your signature on it. it is a binding legal contract if it has your signature on it. but i don't think my alma mater would sue you .. she's above that.

withdraw your support, but if you have no qualms in dishonoring a pledge, you are a filthy jerk in my eyes. if kim king, marty hunsinger et all made pledges but reneged they would be too.

it is their prerogative to support or withdraw support to anyone they feel. but they are dishonorable if they renege pledges. you are dishonorable if you renege your pledge. that is the bottomline.
 
Originally posted by ylojk8:
BEESerk i will only respond to one point because that is the only point that i deem worthy of a response.

if you had a medical hardhsip, if you got laid off, if you made a pledge and cannot fulfill it because of such reasons, your alma mater and i would understand.

that's not the case.

there were no conditions placed when you signed off on that pledge. you and i both know that. "good faith" .. bullshit! withdraw all the $$ you give to tech, but don't dishonor a pledge.

here, i'll help you out. here's the meaning of the word "pledge" from webster.

"pledge: a binding promise or agreement to do or forbear. a person who has so promised."

did at any time tech pledge anything to you, which it has reneged upon?

give your support when you deem that it's deserved the least, cause that's when it's wanted the most.

and that pledge document will stand in court. it has your signature on it. it is a binding legal contract if it has your signature on it. but i don't think my alma mater would sue you .. she's above that.

withdraw your support, but if you have no qualms in dishonoring a pledge, you are a filthy jerk in my eyes. if kim king, marty hunsinger et all made pledges but reneged they would be too.

it is their prerogative to support or withdraw support to anyone they feel. but they are dishonorable if they renege pledges. you are dishonorable if you renege your pledge. that is the bottomline.
<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Your logic is amazing.

You have no problem with someone withdrawing their AT contributions, but have a problem with someone withdrawing funds that will only be used to purchase conrete and steele?

You do know that AT Contributions actually pay for tuition, books, and tutors for STUDENTS?

Keep trying to rationalize your weakly standing belief. No else seems to believe it.
 
What's appropriate is for major changes to be made at the AA. If you think that what Coleman said is inappropriate, you havent seen anything yet from others connected with GT if there are no changes made, trust me.
 
i do have a problem if you or anyone else drops their contributions in any way, sort of form. but i can't help that. do what you please, your dollars, your life.

if kim king and all who you think are doing the same thing you are want to stop giving money to tech, their choice.

i have a problem with that. but it's their prerogative to do what they want. high rolling contributors are making their voice heard however they can.

but if anybody made a pledge and reneges it, that person is dishonorable. is that a weak argument? it seems to fit very well with the concept of a pledge as found in the webster's dictionary.

no one else seems to believe in my logic? doesn't matter .. i don't need many many people to believe in my stand to validate it like you do.

your pledge dollar is for purchasing concrete and steel for who? for Tech STUDENT-ATHLETES to play in a bigger stadium filled with larger crowds? to attract potential STUDENT-ATHLETES with better stadium facilities?

gailey/braine/clough/king/hunsinger et all will be gone one day. the stadium expansion is here to stay. doesn't matter now whether you or anyone else thinks it is ill advised.
 
Originally posted by The Gnome of Zurich:
What's appropriate is for major changes to be made at the AA. If you think that what Coleman said is inappropriate, you havent seen anything yet from others connected with GT if there are no changes made, trust me.
<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">LOL... well, what is the "posse" waiting for? If my mind is made up on something I usually take action.. and just out of curiousity .. who are these "others" you speak of, and what are their "connections" with Tech... the "Braine" thing or something else...
 
Gnome, you're still missing the point. If the people with influence who can get things changed chase Braine out, I couldn't care less. What I do care about is people who make Tech look stupid in public forums. So if Coleman and the money men want to stage a coup, I say more power to them. Just do it with some care for Tech's public image, do it quickly and as quietly as possible and get it over. But if all Coleman is doing is stirring the waters for radio ratings then I say screw him.
 
BEEserk: I agree with you on accountability and as a supporter agree you should be able to renege on a pledge when things are not right! It's not often that a situation like this occurs and there are those who think it's inconceivable to think or do this - but it's not. It happens all the time. Even the Red Cross suffered similar consequences after 9/11 based on how they were using monies collected/pledged after the disaster and where it was going.

GT is not use to anyone saying anything about holding back, being concerned about what's going on. They unfortunately are finding out through the current situation ... negative steps are/will be taken to right the ship and alert those in control - you need to take notice and make changes AA because this is all unacceptable.

Quite the opposite, at least this shows me that SOMEONE, SOMEBODY connected to this institution is wanting changes for the betterment of the overall program(s)! To do and say nothing is worse. In the end, I don't think anybody will not give what they intended, it's just a matter of when.
 
why don't all y'all start sending in 34 cent checks to the GTAA to protest?
 
I have to weigh in on this one finally. To me it's simple. If you don't want to support a program it is obviously your right. It's also your right, and may be a responsibility to tell those you don't support why, at least if you care about what they are doing. It makes perfect sense to withhold donations if you aren't comfortable with how they are to be used for example.

OTOH, a pledge of support just feels different to me. In this case Tech has taken on financial obligations at least in part due to support from the Tech community. They can't give back the stadium expansion. Now I do understand the thinking that withholding pledged money sends a message to the powers that be, but it just doesn't seem right to me. Of course some will disagree and we all have to make these judgements based on our own values and beliefs.

Also let me say that I couldn't care less if Braine stays or goes so it's not about that.
 
Originally posted by BEESerk:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Originally posted by GTechsta:
An update to this post: Based on some homework I did, the $45 million that was mentioned is either already collected or secured assets. It doesn't count those whimps that commit and then bail in tough times. Still waiting for Coleman to address the team as a whole and tell them that 15 of them couldn't beat Auburn.
<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Wimp? Excuse me??????? Surely you jest. Techsta we both have been around the boards for a LONG time, and this is the first time I can ever remember having a beef with somethig you have said.

Explain to me how telling Dave Braine personally that he is incompetent and is destroying our program is "wimpish"? In fact I would consider it just the opposite. It is called "accountablity". Braine is hell bent on pissing every last football fan off in one fashion or another. It is also apparent he is hell bent on eliminating the tailgating experience of good southern college football.

If you don't see it that way, then fine. You have every right to that opinion. Keep writing your checks and watch Dave piss it all away on paying salaries to people who are idiots. Watch Dave keep asking you for more money because he can't sell "enhanced seats". Don't however call me a wimp because I have strong moral character, belief in getting paid to do a good job, and a belief in holding someone accountable for their actions.

I never said I would stop giving to AT or buying tickets. I simply said I will not give Braine the money he asked for in order to fund a Stadium exapnsion that was ill advised, and is biting us right in the ass as we speak.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">
 
Oops. Learning this whole reply thing. BEEserk, no offense to you, but I wouldn't use the phrase "high moral character" while discussing why you are refusing to follow through on a commit you made. By backing off this commit, you are not just telling Braine that you think he is ruining the program, you are doing much more. You are telling your fellow fans and the football team. A successfully expanded football stadium will be around much longer than a coach or AD. Realizing you have a beef w/ our AD and possibly our HC, think long term for the school's football team. Not one or two people.
 
Originally posted by GTechsta:
think long term for the school's football team. Not one or two people.
<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">That is exactly what I am thinking about. Sorry you don't understand that, but I am not alone in having that sentiment. In fact, all apparent evidence suggests you and ylo are in a vast minority. We will just have to agree to disagree about how we can hold the powers that be accountable for their actions.

This whole concept of unconditional giving that you and Ylo are clinging onto is not reality and is not fiscally responsible. You and Ylo are simply saying... "Dave, no matter how much you screw up and ruin things you can count on me to give you my hard earned cash." Do what you want with your money, we both know that neither one of us will lose sleep over it.

There comes a time and point when you have to say enough is enough. I have nearly reached that point. If you and Ylo had read everything I have said on the subject... you would know that I still have hope that GTAA can restore my confidence in them before the next round of pledges are due. At this time, I have no witheld a single cent. My attitude right now however is that GTAA has reneged on their duties to properly manage our program.

I have serious question for you.... if it were the case that you honestly had no faith in the leadership at GTAA and at the same time you unconditionally gave your money to them, how would you hold them accountable?
 
Originally posted by GTechsta:
BEEserk, no offense to you, but I wouldn't use the phrase "high moral character" while discussing why you are refusing to follow through on a commit you made.
<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Sorry, I forgot to adress this one before.

Fine, in order to satisfy you and Ylo's demands of Honor and Integrity... I propose this...

What if I follow through on my pledge for the stadium? Will this get you and Ylo off my back?

The caveat is that I still have to send a message to Braine (letters and emails don't seem to do the trick). When GTAA send me their request for my AT donation next year, I won't send them any money. I will send them the letter explaining they can have my money again when they restore my confidence.

Ehtically, you can't find fault with this because AT giving IS NOT a "commitment". Either you give that year or you don't. It is as simple as that.

In the scenario I have completely satisfied you and Ylo's standard for "honor", but in turn have directly hurt the student athletes whose education, books, housing, and FOOD is paid for with my AT gift.

Satisfied?
 
I thought I would stay out of this one, but naah!! There are some good points made on both sides of this issue.

However, when it gets right down to the nitty gritty, it is all in the hands of the person with the money.

Since the pledging person owns the money, it is still his to give or keep.

There are only two ways he will be forced to give the money. If the U.S. Government tells him to give the money, he will. They can do anything they want with anybody's money.

If the pledger has signed a document promising the money, then law-bee will get involved.

Father Time
 
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