Expansion

gtphd said:
FSU isn’t some scorned ex-girlfriend. They just want to make $70 million per year while having a path to the national championship. If an expanded ACC gets there, they’ll take it.
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They have a path to the national championship. The ACC could stand pat and still have a path for the conference winner. FSU has less of a chance in the SEC.
 
Buzzilla said:
It is possible we might be seeing the bubble popping right in front of us. The PAC 12 blowing up could be the sound of it popping. Nobody wanted to pay what the PAC 12 thought they deserved. There was no market for their prices. They couldn't justify the price for the limited demand.

You can make the argument that the product was the problem, i.e. PAC 12 football kind of sucks or the west coast time slots suck for more than half the country. Those points have validity but the market place spoke and said, "you're price is too high".
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I think the real message was a need for downsizing for middle level teams.

The pac-10 was offered ~23M per team. They reject that. Two teams (OU/UW) landed about 30M per year and a guaranteed income improvement relative to the rest of the b1g at a future date. Four of those teams (CO/UT/AU/ASU) landed somewhere in the 28M range with the future income improvement.

The problem with the pac was the revenue sharing with the bottom draws. The pac would have been better off to become the pac-7 and drop WSU/OSU/Cal.

This should be something the ACC should consider. This conference could be a football draw: FSU/Clem/Miami/GT/UNC/NCSt/VT/UVa/Pitt/WVU

Assuming that you keep the ND deal for 5 games, that is a nationally televised game every other year plus your 9 team conference slate. No need for divisions, just match up the top two teams. You could drop WVU and have only 8 conference games if you like.

It would be better not to double up on teams in NC and VA, but at least both are populous states.
 
WracerX said:
I think the real message was a need for downsizing for middle level teams.

The pac-10 was offered ~23M per team. They reject that. Two teams (OU/UW) landed about 30M per year and a guaranteed income improvement relative to the rest of the b1g at a future date. Four of those teams (CO/UT/AU/ASU) landed somewhere in the 28M range with the future income improvement.

The problem with the pac was the revenue sharing with the bottom draws. The pac would have been better off to become the pac-7 and drop WSU/OSU/Cal.

This should be something the ACC should consider. This conference could be a football draw: FSU/Clem/Miami/GT/UNC/NCSt/VT/UVa/Pitt/WVU

Assuming that you keep the ND deal for 5 games, that is a nationally televised game every other year plus your 9 team conference slate. No need for divisions, just match up the top two teams. You could drop WVU and have only 8 conference games if you like.

It would be better not to double up on teams in NC and VA, but at least both are populous states.
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Y'all have to remember this deal was without USC and UCLA.....two of the three primary draws in the conference. I'm not sure the price offered is reflective of a bubble popping in TV rights, but rather the inventory that was being offered with the remaining schools. It would be comparable to the ACC trying to do a new deal if Clemson and Florida State left.
 
The GOR doomed the ACC and the inability to adapt to realities on the ground really shows a lack of competence by ACC executives. The day Texas & Oklahoma left and again when USC left were the prime days to set up a west coast HQ. The ACC CFO should have been gawking at the travel expenses associated with expanding the conference. The B1G and SEC have made their intentions known for a decade now. They are thinking forward while the ACC is thinking past.

Now there are no teams left that increase revenues. That’s the one thing Phillips needed to do to retain FSU and Clemson. In a few years, the gap between B1G and the SEC will widen to such a point that it will not be painful for them to pay the buyout of select teams and the ACC will finally die. The best thing GT can do at this point is for Cabrera to go around the ACC and stay on top of mind for Tony Petitti every week. When the ACC dies (and it will) you want to be the first president he texts.
 
mookie43 said:
Y'all have to remember this deal was without USC and UCLA.....two of the three primary draws in the conference. I'm not sure the price offered is reflective of a bubble popping in TV rights, but rather the inventory that was being offered with the remaining schools. It would be comparable to the ACC trying to do a new deal if Clemson and Florida State left.
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That’s why I said pac-10 and not pac-12. The remaining schools could have reached the revenue they wanted by dropping 2 schools. Dropping 3 works better. WSU and OSU are great college teams, but they don’t really draw eyes. We should be very aware of this, because we are playing second fiddle in our own state as well. So we need to find a conference to shelter in (like USCe) or raise our game (like Auburn).
 
JJacket said:
They have a path to the national championship. The ACC could stand pat and still have a path for the conference winner. FSU has less of a chance in the SEC.
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Not really accurate. The SEC & B1G will now have leverage towards revising the 12 team CFP nullifying the current agreement ensuring the conference champion gets a bid. With the P12 officially done after this season, that would only ensure 4 auto bids. The push is going to be the Top 11 teams and 1 non P4 school in the end.

The CFP will end up with 1 ACC, 1 B12, 9 SEC / B1G and probably ND as the loophole in the agreement as an Independent. Is it right? No. But TV just wants brand matchups. So 10-2, 9-3 FSU in the SEC or B1G would have a better shot at the CFP vs being 11-1, 10-2 in the ACC.
 
Buzzilla said:
Why not Tulane?

Big city New Orleans TV market. Regional. Excellent academics. Growing and improving athletically. One of the coolest mascots ever.

How is Stanford or Cal a better choice?

THWC
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The ACC wanting to add Stanford and Cal tells you all you need to know about the mindset and complete ineptitude of the ACC.
“Let’s sit on our hands while the Big X and Big XII cherry pick the desired programs. Then let’s strike out and go get two bastard programs that no one else wants. But it looks good academically
 
JJacket said:
They have a path to the national championship. The ACC could stand pat and still have a path for the conference winner. FSU has less of a chance in the SEC.
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The twelve team playoff increases the chances for both them and Clemson. With a four team playoff, an ACC team would have to be almost perfect
 
JJacket said:
They have a path to the national championship. The ACC could stand pat and still have a path for the conference winner. FSU has less of a chance in the SEC.
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The CFP contract is going to be renegotiated in 2024. The problem with the current model is that conferences spread the CFP money equality. You could see a model where the SEC and B1G demand unequal payouts, and if they don’t get it, form their own championship game across their winners (with a series of B1G vs. SEC bowl games leading up to it, like the ACC-B1G challenge in basketball). That would force ND into a conference and would be cause for FSU/Clemson to get out of the ACC.
 
Buzzilla said:
It is possible we might be seeing the bubble popping right in front of us. The PAC 12 blowing up could be the sound of it popping. Nobody wanted to pay what the PAC 12 thought they deserved. There was no market for their prices. They couldn't justify the price for the limited demand.

You can make the argument that the product was the problem, i.e. PAC 12 football kind of sucks or the west coast time slots suck for more than half the country. Those points have validity but the market place spoke and said, "you're price is too high".

Additionally, as the broadcast rights holders try and squeeze more and more return out of their investment, the quality is arguably declining. Confusing conferences with non-regional appeal, loss of traditional rivalries, gross imbalances in program financial payoffs, and programs being left out in the cold.

People still love football and there will always be some demand for it, but the product is changing, the viewership is changing and they are tinkering with it to the point of threatening and diminishing the appeal.

This kind of thing happens all the time. Something is beloved and gets bought up by people who don't understand why it is beloved and in their ownership they decide to change it and then unintentionally destroy what made it great. Seems to be a recurring theme in modern times.

There will be a reckoning coming to all of this. There always is.
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The SEC and BIG confrences are rapidly approaching the size that allows for all day long programming of high quality matchups on multiple channels with no need to televise any lower level conferences. That in my opinion is what they have planned and where this is all headed. In other words the SEC and the BIG are going to suck all the money out of cfb and leave the remainder grasping for crumbs and starving.
 
THWG247 said:
The SEC and BIG confrences are rapidly approaching the size that allows for all day long programming of high quality matchups on multiple channels with no need to televise any lower level conferences. That in my opinion is what they have planned and where this is all headed. In other words the SEC and the BIG are going to suck all the money out of cfb and leave the remainder grasping for crumbs and starving.
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Exactly why schools like FSU and Clemson want out of the ACC.
 
THWG247 said:
The SEC and BIG confrences are rapidly approaching the size that allows for all day long programming of high quality matchups on multiple channels with no need to televise any lower level conferences. That in my opinion is what they have planned and where this is all headed. In other words the SEC and the BIG are going to suck all the money out of cfb and leave the remainder grasping for crumbs and starving.
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Other's have made this point but I don't see how this translates into growing or even maintaining the pie. Won't you lose a high percentage of the fans of the teams that are left out?
 
grantofrights.jpg
 
JJacket said:
They have a path to the national championship. The ACC could stand pat and still have a path for the conference winner. FSU has less of a chance in the SEC.
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What? They’ll have a better path if they are making more money. That’s what winning in CFB is all about. That’s why FSU needs to move out.
 
nfGoldmember said:
Other's have made this point but I don't see how this translates into growing or even maintaining the pie. Won't you lose a high percentage of the fans of the teams that are left out?
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Nah, they will watch what their tv overlords give them to watch and be happy, all fans will convert to become fans of the nearest factory team and fck everybody else
 
WracerX said:
I think the real message was a need for downsizing for middle level teams.

The pac-10 was offered ~23M per team. They reject that. Two teams (OU/UW) landed about 30M per year and a guaranteed income improvement relative to the rest of the b1g at a future date. Four of those teams (CO/UT/AU/ASU) landed somewhere in the 28M range with the future income improvement.

The problem with the pac was the revenue sharing with the bottom draws. The pac would have been better off to become the pac-7 and drop WSU/OSU/Cal.

This should be something the ACC should consider. This conference could be a football draw: FSU/Clem/Miami/GT/UNC/NCSt/VT/UVa/Pitt/WVU

Assuming that you keep the ND deal for 5 games, that is a nationally televised game every other year plus your 9 team conference slate. No need for divisions, just match up the top two teams. You could drop WVU and have only 8 conference games if you like.

It would be better not to double up on teams in NC and VA, but at least both are populous states.
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I have seen several posts like yours that leave VPI out but leave UVA in. Impossible situation to imagine in reality for those of us that remember how the Virginia legislature intervened during a past ACC expansion to ensure we invited VPI or they (UVA) would block any expansion. I believe we were looking at WVU (anyone remember?) instead of VPI. So any move that takes away one is likely a non-starter. Also can't see the removal of Wake or Duke while keeping the other NC schools. Those schools may leave to go join another conference and leave those others behind but just can't see them being onboard of kicking them out of the ACC. I have seen a lot of posts about the SEC getting rid of Missou, Vandy and even Miss. St. as well on other forums but likewise can't see schools getting kicked out just because they are weaker at one particular sport. Kicking out a school...has that ever happened within any major conference???

Edit: NM...i see you had VPI...others did not but you actually included them. :)

JJacket said:
They have a path to the national championship. The ACC could stand pat and still have a path for the conference winner. FSU has less of a chance in the SEC.
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It's not just about national titles! It's mainly about the revenue and all the things that you can do with an extra $40 million per year. This goes for all sports. If you want to have a volleyball only arena...New weight rooms and training areas that are updated say every 2-4 years...A crimson colored waterfall <gold water in our case> to show recruits how we great we are - See Bama's...etc. That is what is driving the panic. You can't keep up with the the top programs if you are middle class (the current ACC and Big XII). What's truly funny to me is watching different Big XII sites and seeing how those fan bases honestly believe there is now a big 3 in conferences. ;) They honestly believe they can overcome the $40 million per year difference and still be in the same conversation with the SEC and BigI and leave the ACC completely out of the conversation. Instead, the reality is the ACC and the Big 12 are both becoming the minor leagues for whenever the 2 power conferences want to flex their muscle and come raid these pantry's. Anyone know if that's why several of our better football players wound up at Ole Miss??? Ole Miss of all places....Ugag, bama, or another powerhouse I understand but Ole Miss??? Of all places that I never thought we would be beneath on the spectrum...
 
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