Expansion

Navy adds no value at all. GTFO with that nonsense.

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Buzzilla said:
Please stop with the "if ND joins" crap. It's not happening. Ever.
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I tend to agree. If they decide to join a conference, which actually might happen in the next few years, it’ll be a bidding war with the B1G. It’s hard to see a scenario where the ACC wins that.
 
gtphd said:
I tend to agree. If they decide to join a conference, which actually might happen in the next few years, it’ll be a bidding war with the B1G. It’s hard to see a scenario where the ACC wins that.
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If the B1G requires equal revenue sharing with ND, the ACC counter could be letting ND keep a significant portion of their home game TV revenue. Not a lot different from the deal they have now unless the ACC adds Stanford as a traditional rival; so it needs to come with a significant penalty for leaving the conference.
 
gtphd said:
Know who does care? School presidents
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Not when it comes to athletics and conference realignment at this point. If it truly was about academics, the B1G would have added Stanford & Cal with Oregon and Washington. Things have drastically changed in less than 3 years.

Schools have the general student population to carry the academics piece of the school.
 
Long time reader, first time poster. Went to Tech for undergrad and Cal for grad school (hence the username). I’ve been living in the Bay Area for many years now.

Selfishly, I’ve been hoping for Cal and Stanford to get an ACC invite so I can see Tech and Cal play on a regular basis. If it comes to pass, go Jackets! Yes, having California schools in the ACC is silly geographically, but given the bizarre state of realignment, it seems like a decent option from Cal & Stanford’s perspective to stay in a power conference. Whether it makes sense from the ACC's perspective is another question, I guess we'll find out in a few days.

Cal’s fanbase is better than people think. During the Tedford era, Memorial Stadium was packed on a regular basis, and that was not an insignificant stretch of time. The team has obviously fallen off since then, and this is not a place where fans will show up in large numbers during hard times (honestly, it’s not unlike Tech in that regard). But if they find success again, I think people will be surprised at the fan support. Similar to Tech, it's unfortunate for Cal that they had a down stretch leading up to this bout of realignment. I'm concerned Tech could find themselves in the situation Cal is in now should FSU, Clemson, etc. succeed in blowing up the ACC.

I’ve noticed some people mention Cal’s balance sheet, and yes, it can’t be hidden that they are the most indebted athletics department in the nation. Sadly, it seems like Tech isn’t on great footing in that regard either, assuming the tweet linked at the end of this post can be trusted. Anyway, Cal’s debt was driven by a structural upgrade of Memorial Stadium last decade; it was necessary because the stadium is located atop an active fault line. It’s arguably the most beautiful stadium setting in the nation, so there was never much appetite to find an alternate location. Fun fact: the infamous tree sitters of the late aughts were attempting to prevent the construction of an athletics complex adjacent to the stadium, which was part of the greater stadium upgrade. Should Cal end up in the ACC, I encourage you to come check it out when Tech plays, because Memorial Stadium is quite a place. It’s nestled into the East Bay Hills with a panoramic view of the Bay Area. You can even watch the game for free from Tightwad Hill.

I understand how it’s easy to hear “Berkeley” and roll one’s eyes at what it brings to mind, but Cal is similar to Tech in the way that they are public schools that don’t make apologies for being world class institutions. They're two of the best engineering programs in the country. I know this discussion is about football, but they’ve both made amazing science and technology contributions to the world and I’m proud to have attended both.

A bit of shared history between them:

- Stumpy’s Bear was a gift to Tech for beating Cal in the 1929 Rose Bowl national championship game. Thank goodness for Wrong Way Riegels.

- “Up With the White and Gold” is based on a Cal fight song called “The Stanford Jonah.” Cal fans refer to Stanford as “the farm” and the trophy for winning the Big Game is an axe. Hence why those vestigial references are present in Up With the White and Gold.

Time to wrap up this post. Auburn is coming to Berkeley in a few weeks, and I look forward to having some southern folks out here even if I'll be shouting obscenities their way.

Debt at public athletic departments:
 
USCJacket said:
Not when it comes to athletics and conference realignment at this point. If it truly was about academics, the B1G would have added Stanford & Cal with Oregon and Washington. Things have drastically changed in less than 3 years.

Schools have the general student population to carry the academics piece of the school.
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Academics matter to the B1G, it just isn't the only thing that matters to the B1G. The AAU status seem to have mattered in the latest B1G expansions.
 
aeromech said:
Navy is a historical rival of Notre Dame, that is their value. Is Navy what it takes to get ND onboard as a full ACC member and is that worth it is the question. Navy probably brings more TV revenue than Syracuse; but I'm just guessing.
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What makes you think Navy even would want to be a full member? They have been trending down sharply in the AAC the past few years (11-23 the past 3 seasons) and fired their coach after 15 years. If I am Navy, I know what my program is and I want to play at a level where I have a chance to be successful. Playing in the ACC diminishes that even more. The military academies have had a pretty good run of trying to remain relevant, but NIL and the continued changing landscape of college sport makes that even more difficult.
 
aeromech said:
Navy is a historical rival of Notre Dame, that is their value. Is Navy what it takes to get ND onboard as a full ACC member and is that worth it is the question. Navy probably brings more TV revenue than Syracuse; but I'm just guessing.
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I doubt Navy wants in the ACC - they were worried the AAC would be too big a jump.
 
05GTCorndog said:
What makes you think Navy even would want to be a full member? They have been trending down sharply in the AAC the past few years (11-23 the past 3 seasons) and fired their coach after 15 years. If I am Navy, I know what my program is and I want to play at a level where I have a chance to be successful. Playing in the ACC diminishes that even more. The military academies have had a pretty good run of trying to remain relevant, but NIL and the continued changing landscape of college sport makes that even more difficult.
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What is your argument, "Navy adds no value at all." or 'Navy doesn't want to join the ACC because they are scared'. I was addressing the Navy value argument. I don't have any insight into whether Navy wants to drop down or step up.
 
aeromech said:
What is your argument, "Navy adds no value at all." or 'Navy doesn't want to join the ACC because they are scared'. I was addressing the Navy value argument. I don't have any insight into whether Navy wants to drop down or step up.
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Navy adds no value.

Navy would be best served not to step up their competition level.

Both are true.


Also, do you really think Navy joining would be the tipping point that makes ND suddenly decide to join a conference?
 
05GTCorndog said:
Navy adds no value.

Navy would be best served not to step up their competition level.

Both are true.


Also, do you really think Navy joining would be the tipping point that makes ND suddenly decide to join a conference?
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I don't know how much ND values the ND vs Navy rivalry; but Wikipedia lists ND's top football rivalries as USC, Navy & Stanford, in that order.

Notre Dame Fighting Irish football rivalries - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
buzzoski said:
Long time reader, first time poster. Went to Tech for undergrad and Cal for grad school (hence the username). I’ve been living in the Bay Area for many years now.

Selfishly, I’ve been hoping for Cal and Stanford to get an ACC invite so I can see Tech and Cal play on a regular basis. If it comes to pass, go Jackets! Yes, having California schools in the ACC is silly geographically, but given the bizarre state of realignment, it seems like a decent option from Cal & Stanford’s perspective to stay in a power conference. Whether it makes sense from the ACC's perspective is another question, I guess we'll find out in a few days.

Cal’s fanbase is better than people think. During the Tedford era, Memorial Stadium was packed on a regular basis, and that was not an insignificant stretch of time. The team has obviously fallen off since then, and this is not a place where fans will show up in large numbers during hard times (honestly, it’s not unlike Tech in that regard). But if they find success again, I think people will be surprised at the fan support. Similar to Tech, it's unfortunate for Cal that they had a down stretch leading up to this bout of realignment. I'm concerned Tech could find themselves in the situation Cal is in now should FSU, Clemson, etc. succeed in blowing up the ACC.

I’ve noticed some people mention Cal’s balance sheet, and yes, it can’t be hidden that they are the most indebted athletics department in the nation. Sadly, it seems like Tech isn’t on great footing in that regard either, assuming the tweet linked at the end of this post can be trusted. Anyway, Cal’s debt was driven by a structural upgrade of Memorial Stadium last decade; it was necessary because the stadium is located atop an active fault line. It’s arguably the most beautiful stadium setting in the nation, so there was never much appetite to find an alternate location. Fun fact: the infamous tree sitters of the late aughts were attempting to prevent the construction of an athletics complex adjacent to the stadium, which was part of the greater stadium upgrade. Should Cal end up in the ACC, I encourage you to come check it out when Tech plays, because Memorial Stadium is quite a place. It’s nestled into the East Bay Hills with a panoramic view of the Bay Area. You can even watch the game for free from Tightwad Hill.

I understand how it’s easy to hear “Berkeley” and roll one’s eyes at what it brings to mind, but Cal is similar to Tech in the way that they are public schools that don’t make apologies for being world class institutions. They're two of the best engineering programs in the country. I know this discussion is about football, but they’ve both made amazing science and technology contributions to the world and I’m proud to have attended both.

A bit of shared history between them:

- Stumpy’s Bear was a gift to Tech for beating Cal in the 1929 Rose Bowl national championship game. Thank goodness for Wrong Way Riegels.

- “Up With the White and Gold” is based on a Cal fight song called “The Stanford Jonah.” Cal fans refer to Stanford as “the farm” and the trophy for winning the Big Game is an axe. Hence why those vestigial references are present in Up With the White and Gold.

Time to wrap up this post. Auburn is coming to Berkeley in a few weeks, and I look forward to having some southern folks out here even if I'll be shouting obscenities their way.

Debt at public athletic departments:
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Well thought out and a very reasonable post. Thank you for the background info. Didn't know "Up with the White and Gold" was borrowed from Cal. Very interesting trivia.

Aside from their money issues, my biggest concern, among others, is the culture of the school and the football program. The PAC-12 fell apart for a number of good reasons and like it or not, Cal is part of those reasons.

Like it or not, good or bad, right or wrong, we live in a "grow or die" college football world right now. And programs like the upper majority of the SEC and B1G are utilizing financial performance enhancing income. FSU is correct in realizing they can't compete long term or even short term when the gap in football revenue is growing at the rate it is. There's lots of blame to go around for the state of things.

The fact that Cal is cash strapped AND hasn't shown a commitment to growing and competing as a football program is the main reason they are homeless and begging for the ACC to throw them a lifeline. The ACC has it's own trouble as we all know. Adding Cal is the equivalent of grabbing your fancy belongings and putting them in the lifeboat as the Titanic takes on water.

The culture of the school frankly leads me to believe they may not even be playing FBS football that long into the future. Football is filled with all the things the culture of the school seems to be opposed to.

Cal has a rich history and I hate to see the current state of college football as it is rapidly becoming. I don't hate Cal but they don't belong in the ACC. And yes, Georgia Tech isn't all that different and could find themselves on the outside as well in the not to distant future. The ACC has been derelict in managing and promoting the strength of the entirety of the conference. That's why what happens now is vitally important to the future of Tech football.

The B1G passed on Cal for reasons. The Big12 passed on Cal for reasons. The same reasons the ACC should pass on them not to even mention the vast land mass separating them from the ACC.
 
aeromech said:
If the B1G requires equal revenue sharing with ND, the ACC counter could be letting ND keep a significant portion of their home game TV revenue. Not a lot different from the deal they have now unless the ACC adds Stanford as a traditional rival; so it needs to come with a significant penalty for leaving the conference.
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I think they could already offer something along the lines of 8 league games that are split 50/50, the other 4 games are yours 100%. For being a conference member, you get an equal share.
 
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