Inexcusable Loss?

ChadWins said:
Nobody really understands how bad the O line and Qb play is. There is not much anyone can do at this point. Johnson left this roster in shambles. It will take sometime and people need to sit back and look at the bigger picture. If a fan can not see the talent issues, god bless their soul.
Click to expand...

yep, it's 2015 all over again, with a worse QB.
 
texstinger said:
But the other system was quickly dying on the vine. CPJ knew it and that was the reason for feelers to ut even after they embarrassed the hell out of him.
Click to expand...

the old system had been passed and repeatedly bitch-slapped by ööööing Duke. Anyone who wants to go back to 7-wins-max simply embraces mediocrity. 2017-18 was our norm at the end of PJ Era.

PJ knew this - that's why he quit.
 
If by "the system" you mean our offensive scheme, it was fine. It was the reason we won 7 games and nearly a division title.

What was dying on the vine was our staff's inability to recruit at a high level or coach defense at all. It was the reason we needed superb offensive coaching even to win 7 games. That's why we hired an energetic staff that is specifically focused on culture and recruiting and a head coach with defensive experience. It made sense - directly attacking our program's biggest weaknesses.

What doesn't make sense is focusing solely on distancing ourselves from our program's only strength, and abandoning things that worked. If CGC and CDP are serious about maximizing the talent we have, they would be using modernized option principles, which would probably amount to dropping into the shotgun, switching to zone blocking, and slowly adding some RPOs as we get more comfortable in the offense.
 
johncu said:
If by "the system" you mean our offensive scheme, it was fine. It was the reason we won 7 games and nearly a division title.

What was dying on the vine was our staff's inability to recruit at a high level or coach defense at all. It was the reason we needed superb offensive coaching even to win 7 games. That's why we hired an energetic staff that is specifically focused on culture and recruiting and a head coach with defensive experience. It made sense - directly attacking our program's biggest weaknesses.

What doesn't make sense is focusing solely on distancing ourselves from our program's only strength, and abandoning things that worked. If CGC and CDP are serious about maximizing the talent we have, they would be using modernized option principles, which would probably amount to dropping into the shotgun, switching to zone blocking, and slowly adding some RPOs as we get more comfortable in the offense.
Click to expand...

"The system" refers to the Program as a whole. PJ's Scheme absolutely affected the Program as a whole, exactly as you pointed out. In addition to an Inability to Recruit & play defense,an inability to drum up fan interest or make a splash in season ticket sales was clear at the end too. Not capitalizing on the great seasons of 2009 and 2014 hurt.

I don't disagree with anything you posted above, btw. I'd add "stop the QB Swap Program ASAP" too. it's stupid.
 
ScionOfSouthland said:
Talent is somewhat of an issue but the real issue is what our recruits were given scholarships to do. This is an triple option team pretending to be a spread team pretending to be a multiple set team. The personnel are not tooled yet for what we are trying to accomplish
Click to expand...
Bingo! that is what's happening. Trying to fit a square peg into a round hole! Give GC credit for trying different things, but none is working. Major personnel changes will occur at the end of this season.
 
Yeah "Inexcusable" is such a stupid term for this kind of stuff. Doesn't it basically mean that alone gets you fired? Nothing else matters? I don't think there has been a loss like that in the history of sports.

It was an awful loss and you might say historic. Just like we all remember that Saban lost to a Louisiana directional school in his first year, people will remember that Collins and GT lost to The Citadel. I know a Furman grad that doesn't care about football that still talks about Furman beating (tying) Tech because it was such a big deal.
 
johncu said:
There is no doubt that the Citadel loss was humiliating and probably the worst GT loss in my lifetime. However, taking a look at some other really bad losses from first-year coaches made me pause a bit in passing judgement against CGC and co.

----
Gary Patterson, Pat Fitzgerald, and Howard Schnellenberger all lost to FCS teams in their first year on the way to pretty rough season. I'd say all three did pretty well after that.

Frank Beamer went 2-9 in Year 1. He struggled for 6 years before posting 23 straight years with a winning record, including finishing ranked 17 out of 19 years.

Bobby Bowden went 5-6 in his first season. Then he had 33 consecutive years with a winning record before retiring.

Kyle Whittingham took over a 12-0 Utah team off a Fiesta Bowl win and went 7-5. He recovered to eventually pound #4 Alabama in the Sugar Bowl a few year later, and lead Utah to the Pac 12 and increased relevance.

Kirk Ferentz went 1-10 in his first season. He posted 3 straight Top 10 finishes in his third, fourth, and fifth seasons.

Dabo Swinney lost to 2-10 Maryland in his first full season as HC. He went 6-7 the next year, punctuated by getting stomped in a crappy bowl by a USF team that had a losing record in the Big East. Then he rattled off eight straight 10 win seasons, 5 ACC titles, and 2 national championships.
----

This is gonna be a tough season, for sure, but we're gonna have to suck it up and look for positives. The coaches above were able to recruit in the face of tough losses. Hopefully Collins can do the same, while continuing to build a strong staff around him.
Click to expand...
The coaches and the players did not take this game seriously. The QB carousel was a perfect example. We could have won that game if they just let Oliver run QB draws. The Citadel never stopped that.
The DL being manhandled by The Citadel's OL was remarkable. It is very clear that there is not enough talent on the DL to slack off and not give it 100%.
 
TampaBayJacket said:
I think we all hurt from this loss but 90%+ of us understand the big picture of us getting worse before we can get better. The complainers are a vocal minority.
Click to expand...
Good point..and I’m in the Tampa airport right now..so there’s that.
 
BuzzLaw said:
I’m trying to be nice and not say anything bad about GC, and agree with the OP for the most part, but this is just retarded.
Click to expand...

People are just looking for excuses for why we lost to the Citadel.

Truth is that there is enough talent on the roster to make it to a bowl game if the coaching staff wanted to put players in the best scheme/position to win. It should be obvious to even casual football observers that rather than do that the staff has decided to make this a throw away season on offense. That is sad for the juniors and seniors that stayed; but long term this may be what is best for the program. I really don't know what the future offense will look like based on what we've seen in first three games. The fact we change schemes every few downs in my opinion contributes to poor play on the offensive line more so than the talent level of the players. The lack of confidence in any of our QB's probably isn't helping them develop either. Try to imagine looking at the sideline after each play not for the next play; but to see if you are being pulled from the game, how do you expect a QB to lead a team under that circumstance. I suppose that likewise it is hard to know what the OC may do 2-3 years from now, I can only hope and assume with the rest of you it isn't this.

With that criticism aside, I like what I see on defense. Defense is aggressive and active, which hurt us last week some because we all should know that aggressive defenses are susceptible to option offenses; particularly ones like ours which lack size on the DL. The lack of size on the DL is fixable if we get the recruits, and I think this defense will be fun to watch in a year or two; right now they are doing what they can with what they've got and a few of those guys might make it to the next level. Meanwhile, I expect the D to blown up in a few games this year when a team decides to just pound it in the trenches.
 
In his first season Baylor'a Matt Rhule had home losses to Liberty and UTSA and went 1-11. Baylor fans were livid. Year 2 he won a bowl

This will be a tough season for GT. If Collins can sign a decent recruiting class and find a transfer QB he should on his way to success.

I started rooting for GT in 2008 because I
Like option football and nobody runs it better than cpj. Sad to see it go but after 11 years of following GT football I'm hooked win or lose.
 
Lion82 said:
Like option football and nobody runs it better than cpj. Sad to see it go but after 11 years of following GT football I'm hooked win or lose.
Click to expand...
I liked option football – kinda sad that apparently recruits do not, seeing as it's been a staple of good offenses for decades.

Anyhow, happy to keep a fan who came to us via CPJ in the GT fold.
 
johncu said:
You've already proven to be one of the biggest dumbasses on the board oh, so thanks for that.

All I'm saying is that there aren't many coaches who I would expect to do better than CPJ, given the current football landscape and the fact that both of our biggest rivals are literally as good as they have ever been. That's not a knock on CGC - it's just the reason I wanted to keep CPJ as long as possible. I hope Geoff Collins goes down as the best coach in GT history and posted this thread to say that he still can be.
Click to expand...

Can someone explain to me what he was doing and what he did that was so great that I have to praise the OB won off the coattails of FSU anytime I criticize the predecessor?
We only went to 2 ACCCG that we deserved.

Break out of your Stockholm Syndrome
 
This whole love/hate dynamic of the previous and current staffs when talking Tech football is becoming really bizarre.

Not every post which criticizes CPJ means someone is only loyal to CGC.
Not every post which is a positive thing about CPJ is by someone who hates CGC.
Not every post which criticizes CGC means someone is only loyal to CPJ.
Not every post which is a positive thing about CGC is by someone who hates CPJ.

We don’t have to overcompensate for any of the above by turning everything into a ööööing Rock ‘Em Sock ‘Em thread between the two.
 
Last edited:
ElCidBUZZingFAN said:
This whole love/hate dynamic of the previous and current staffs when talking Tech football is becoming really bizarre.

Not every post which criticizes CPJ means someone is only loyal to CGC.
Not every post which is a positive thing about CPJ is by someone who hates CGC.
Not every post which criticizes CGC means someone is only loyal to CPJ.
Not every post which is a positive thing about CGC is by someone who hates CPJ.

We don’t have to overcompensate for any of the above by turning everything into a ööööing Rock ‘Em Sock ‘Em thread between the two.
Click to expand...

True; but some posts which criticize CPJ are often by people who hate CPJ and can't let it go. The comparisons between the two probably won't stop for a few seasons; but the comparisons aren't really fair (and those comparisons between coaches seldom are). Collins should recruit better than CPJ; but it will be lost that part of that is due to the emphasis TStan has made on recruiting while CPJ was saddled with MBob. We are spending more money now on facilities and increasing recruiting staff, both targeted at recruiting, there should be some positive showing for it. That is not to take all the credit away from CGC and the marketing stuff; but how effective would it be if CGC was still dealing with the MBob administration and the limited recruiting staff? Similarly, what would our roster look like right now if CPJ had been given this kind of support during the bulk of his tenure?
 
ElCidBUZZingFAN said:
This whole love/hate dynamic of the previous and current staffs when talking Tech football is becoming really bizarre.

Not every post which criticizes CPJ means someone is only loyal to CGC.
Not every post which is a positive thing about CPJ is by someone who hates CGC.
Not every post which criticizes CGC means someone is only loyal to CPJ.
Not every post which is a positive thing about CGC is by someone who hates CPJ.

We don’t have to overcompensate for any of the above by turning everything into a ööööing Rock ‘Em Sock ‘Em thread between the two.
Click to expand...

Imagine the year is 2008:

ElCidBUZZingFAN said:
This whole love/hate dynamic of the previous and current staffs when talking Tech football is becoming really bizarre.

Not every post which criticizes CCG means someone is only loyal to CPJ.
Not every post which is a positive thing about CCG is by someone who hates CPJ.
Not every post which criticizes CPJ means someone is only loyal to CCG.
Not every post which is a positive thing about CPJ is by someone who hates CCG.

We don’t have to overcompensate for any of the above by turning everything into a ööööing Rock ‘Em Sock ‘Em thread between the two.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top