Inexcusable Loss?

atlanta jacket

Dodd-Like
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
6,993
Here's another way to look at the whole situation:

For the last 4 years in team composite talent rankings:

Army average #130
Michigan averege #8.5

Army absolutely should've won that game. I would argue that if they had Citadel's kicker they would have. It would suck for them but it wouldn't be the end of the world for Michigan and they wouldn't be being talked about like we are. That's how much of an equalizer the option is, and we absolutely weren't prepared for it. Does that lie on the coaches? Yes. Does that mean they are duds? No. It was the the perfect storm. There are so many factors that played a part in us losing that game, you can take almost any one of them out and we win.
Army is a hell of a lot better than an 0-2 junior football team. Army almost beat Oklahoma last year.
 

[User Deleted]

Banhammer'd
Ban Hammer'd
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
0
I just don't see why you and some others have to constantly run him down STILL, after he's retired.
All of my criticism has been 100% fair and they are most certainly not personal. Sycophants feel the need to defend the mediocrity, it’s why they get butthurt at the first sign of negativity regarding their glorious leader.
He was not a good custodian of the program. Recruiting good players was too hard, so he didn’t do it. Working with the AD to negotiate and sell The Hill on why it’s important to have good football was too hard, so he didn’t do it.
Adding variation to his offense was too hard, so he didn’t do it.

Leading GT to where we think it should be was too hard, so he quit.

That’s my biggest gripe, is that he was not putting his best effort for Georgia Tech. And that’s not unfounded. To me, it seems like the entire endeavor was to prove that the offense could work at D1 FBS and use our fine Institution to experiment on.

I believe GT can and will be better than we have since O’Leary left. It’s a damn travesty that it’s taken so long to find the guy that recognizes how good GT should truly be.
 

atlanta jacket

Dodd-Like
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
6,993
All of my criticism has been 100% fair and they are most certainly not personal. Sycophants feel the need to defend the mediocrity, it’s why they get butthurt at the first sign of negativity regarding their glorious leader.
He was not a good custodian of the program. Recruiting good players was too hard, so he didn’t do it. Working with the AD to negotiate and sell The Hill on why it’s important to have good football was too hard, so he didn’t do it.
Adding variation to his offense was too hard, so he didn’t do it.

Leading GT to where we think it should be was too hard, so he quit.

That’s my biggest gripe, is that he was not putting his best effort for Georgia Tech. And that’s not unfounded. To me, it seems like the entire endeavor was to prove that the offense could work at D1 FBS and use our fine Institution to experiment on.

I believe GT can and will be better than we have since O’Leary left. It’s a damn travesty that it’s taken so long to find the guy that recognizes how good GT should truly be.
CPJ was not a bad coach, he was by far not the 2nd coming of Dodd as alot on here thought.
 

aeromech

Dodd-Like
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
11,588
Jury is still out, they’re gonna have to show something. It’s up to them to prove it wrong, put something on film to show otherwise. If they’re talented, they should be able to get better.
Why do you think it is only on the players and not on the coaches? No doubt they are having to learn and new system and new techniques, seems like that should be on the coaches.
 

aeromech

Dodd-Like
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
11,588
All of my criticism has been 100% fair and they are most certainly not personal. Sycophants feel the need to defend the mediocrity, it’s why they get butthurt at the first sign of negativity regarding their glorious leader.
I will take your word for it that this isn't personal; but your attacks have seemed personal.

He was not a good custodian of the program. Recruiting good players was too hard, so he didn’t do it. Working with the AD to negotiate and sell The Hill on why it’s important to have good football was too hard, so he didn’t do it.
Recruiting results aren't what we wanted them to be; but I don't think it was because nobody on the staff wanted good players. TStan was emphatic that when he got back to GT than the program was way behind average in support for recruiting and has made that an emphasis. Do you really think anyone could have gotten MBob to sell The Hill on the importance of football? First you would have to sell MBob on the importance of it.

Adding variation to his offense was too hard, so he didn’t do it.
You mean like diamond formation and shotgun stuff?

Leading GT to where we think it should be was too hard, so he quit.
I think he let GT beat him down. The last few years he didn't seem to have the competitive spirit he had when he first got to GT. That and I think he knew TStan wanted to go a different direction; so he wasn't going to get to lead GT to where we think it should be regardless.

That’s my biggest gripe, is that he was not putting his best effort for Georgia Tech. And that’s not unfounded. To me, it seems like the entire endeavor was to prove that the offense could work at D1 FBS and use our fine Institution to experiment on.
Again, I think he put forth his best effort initially; but over time the things that make GT a tough place to coach plus the lack of support from within took their toll.

I believe GT can and will be better than we have since O’Leary left. It’s a damn travesty that it’s taken so long to find the guy that recognizes how good GT should truly be.
 
Last edited:

RamblinWreck92

Dodd-Like
Joined
Oct 14, 2013
Messages
5,455
This whole love/hate dynamic of the previous and current staffs when talking Tech football is becoming really bizarre.

Not every post which criticizes CPJ means someone is only loyal to CGC.
Not every post which is a positive thing about CPJ is by someone who hates CGC.
Not every post which criticizes CGC means someone is only loyal to CPJ.
Not every post which is a positive thing about CGC is by someone who hates CPJ.

We don’t have to overcompensate for any of the above by turning everything into a ööööing Rock ‘Em Sock ‘Em thread between the two.
So many of the anti-CGC posts made thru the 1st 3 weeks this year would've resulted in temporary bans if made about the almighty-protected PJ when he was coach. Hell, someone called for CGC to get terminated after Citadel - no ban.

The veneration of the guy is bizarre and cultish. He ran a quirky offense that had some great highs and awful lows and was paid very well for his time here. He ultimately left on his own accord and in a way that was beneficial to GT.

He's not above criticism, esp. considering the heaps of abuse piled onto Gailey after his departure. Every single current GT starter is a PJ recruit. Doesn't make him responsible for Citadel loss but the effects of his regime are still being felt and worthy of discussion.
 

gtfan088

Dodd-Like
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
16,574
That’s fair. Yes he’s been successful, but he’s also failed a few times to setup the run play. He’s missed motions that led to running against a stacked box. I don’t think TO knows the full details at QB yet.

Also our OL has not been consistent but I can assure you they know that. Their work is on the film. So long as they’re committed to taking instruction, we will see improvement.

It really pisses me off because they’re so close to getting it right. If they (offensive players)could just know where to go on each play, we have a shot to win games.
The OL is also dropping like flies. That certainly doesn't help.
 

gtfan088

Dodd-Like
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
16,574
Okay I’ll buy most of what you said as I agree completely. Guys getting paid millions to wear sweats and coach don’t get free passes. I disagree with the “time out being called to wipe out a TD”. I don’t know because I haven’t had a chance to ask him, but I assume Collins didn’t call the TO to wipe out a touchdown. Worked out that way. Also the defensive back field stopped playing because they saw the TD called. But none of that fits your rage so we’ll ignore it.
And the clock stopped at 4 seconds when Oliver was still 2-3 seconds away from scoring. The play developed quickly, but it was very possible pre-snap that the game would end on that play. It's not idiotic that Collins wasn't able to predict the future. The real mistake was that he didn't call the timeout much sooner, given that the clock was already running.
 

[User Deleted]

Banhammer'd
Ban Hammer'd
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
0
Why do you think it is only on the players and not on the coaches? No doubt they are having to learn and new system and new techniques, seems like that should be on the coaches.
I don’t think I ever said it was only on the players.
 

[User Deleted]

Banhammer'd
Ban Hammer'd
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
0
And the clock stopped at 4 seconds when Oliver was still 2-3 seconds away from scoring. The play developed quickly, but it was very possible pre-snap that the game would end on that play. It's not idiotic that Collins wasn't able to predict the future. The real mistake was that he didn't call the timeout much sooner, given that the clock was already running.
Timeout to prevent the runoff would be the correct decision.
 

ramblinwise1

beware the zealot
Joined
Dec 17, 2001
Messages
16,041
So let me get this straight, you FOPs should really be OK with this... If the season doesn't show signs of significant improvement we fire Pdude and hire CPJ as OC and return to the option except that CGC would make him modernize it to appeal more to better recruits.
 
Last edited:

Walton

Varsity Lurker
Joined
Jan 5, 2018
Messages
455
And the clock stopped at 4 seconds when Oliver was still 2-3 seconds away from scoring. The play developed quickly, but it was very possible pre-snap that the game would end on that play. It's not idiotic that Collins wasn't able to predict the future. The real mistake was that he didn't call the timeout much sooner, given that the clock was already running.
1) I noticed that the clock started very fast. It was like he anticipated the whistle.
2) I tried to time it and it seemed to me that Oliver crossed the goal line at 11 seconds. So it seems like at most there would have been 2 seconds but if he had been tackled in bounds then game is likely over but theoretically we should have had a second (since we could stop the clock with a TO)

Bottom-line is the screw up was not calling the TO at 23 seconds and secondarily not understanding the timing rules, which would have prompted the coach to call a TO at 23 seconds.
 

gtfan088

Dodd-Like
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
16,574
So let me get this straight, you FOPs should really be OK with this... If the season doesn't show signs of significant improvement we fire Pdude and hire CPJ as OC and return to the option except that CGC would make him modernize it to appeal more to better recruits.
Not going to happen, but yeah, in a perfect world CPJ could be OC concentrating solely on the offense, CGC, Thacker, and Burton would navigate the defense, and we'd still recruit really well.

For that matter, just any really good OC would work. Right now it doesn't appear we have one, but he'll have his chance to prove otherwise.
 

BuzzLaw

I hope it rains at my funeral
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
8,586
All of my criticism has been 100% fair and they are most certainly not personal. Sycophants feel the need to defend the mediocrity, it’s why they get butthurt at the first sign of negativity regarding their glorious leader.
He was not a good custodian of the program. Recruiting good players was too hard, so he didn’t do it. Working with the AD to negotiate and sell The Hill on why it’s important to have good football was too hard, so he didn’t do it.
Adding variation to his offense was too hard, so he didn’t do it.

Leading GT to where we think it should be was too hard, so he quit.

That’s my biggest gripe, is that he was not putting his best effort for Georgia Tech. And that’s not unfounded. To me, it seems like the entire endeavor was to prove that the offense could work at D1 FBS and use our fine Institution to experiment on.

I believe GT can and will be better than we have since O’Leary left. It’s a damn travesty that it’s taken so long to find the guy that recognizes how good GT should truly be.
I disagree. PJ was always pushing leadership for additional resources. He did so publicly and, I would guess, did a lot more privately. He busted his ass recruiting but had less recruiting staff than Georgia State and Duke. Additionally, the AD did nothing - he came from a school that didn’t even have a football team and didn’t care about it.

Adding variation? Just not true. See every poll since Vad Lee.

Did he quit? Was he forced out? I really don’t know, but he hasn’t gone off and trashed GT since he left. He’s remained a fan and loyal to the school, and I appreciate that.

It’s possible he did get burned out and truly wanted some time with his family. And, if that’s the case, seeing how Army has done, I would’ve liked seeing how Monken could have done here at GT.
 
Top