It’s War 2.0

GTLiebs said:
how so? in the specific sense of the GOR
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Because the GOR is intertwined with the ACC’s television contracts and revenue distribution agreements. When the TV “partner” is already drowning the conference and now takes further steps, beyond the current tv contract, to actively diminish the conference’s standing, there’s an element of bad faith that would arguably support equitable rescission of the GOR. This all depends on how involved espn is in all the back channel stuff (which we all know is the case).
 
JJacket said:
All FSU is accomplishing is shortening the timeline for the end of college football. They think they will have a seat at the table when, ultimately, the powers that be in the BIG10 and SEC can pretty much pick and choose who they want to survive. If those two leagues decide to branch off and shun FSU, but pick GT, GT will get a seat at the table and FSU will wilt. The same will go for ANY school. Hell, once the two big leagues decide to get harsh with some schools, you may see several left to wilt. I still think the best bet is to jettison schools like Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Rutgers...from those leagues.

IMO, UNC is more likely to survive than FSU because, for some odd reason, those SEC folks seem to love UNC
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You are really reaching with the FSU isn’t going to get a seat at the table stance. FSU is a blue blood football brand. This expansion is about strengthening football footprints. FSU, Clemson will be picks 1-2 in 2 years when all the legal proceedings go through and an agreement is reached for FSU’s payout to leave the ACC opening the door for Clemson’s exit.

Despite the B1G, sec not being able to “officially“ talk to FSU, I’m sure Petitti and the uppers at the B1G have had casual conversations with FSU. There is no way FSU is taking a risk like this without knowing they have a landing spot. Neither the B1G or sec can have on the record conversations with any ACC team until the GOR exit situation is figured out.
 
JJacket said:
All FSU is accomplishing is shortening the timeline for the end of college football. They think they will have a seat at the table when, ultimately, the powers that be in the BIG10 and SEC can pretty much pick and choose who they want to survive. If those two leagues decide to branch off and shun FSU, but pick GT, GT will get a seat at the table and FSU will wilt. The same will go for ANY school. Hell, once the two big leagues decide to get harsh with some schools, you may see several left to wilt. I still think the best bet is to jettison schools like Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Rutgers...from those leagues.

IMO, UNC is more likely to survive than FSU because, for some odd reason, those SEC folks seem to love UNC
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That is deliberate. FSU knows they are extremely likely to get a seat at the big table when it happens. GT may or may not, but it's hard for me to envision a scenario where GT gets an invite to a super league but FSU doesn't.
 
savbandjacket said:
Because the GOR is intertwined with the ACC’s television contracts and revenue distribution agreements. When the TV “partner” is already drowning the conference and now takes further steps, beyond the current tv contract, to actively diminish the conference’s standing, there’s an element of bad faith that would arguably support equitable rescission of the GOR. This all depends on how involved espn is in all the back channel stuff (which we all know is the case).
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Did you miss the following in the article?

“CFP leaders are expected to get an update on TV negotiations next week. Multiple potential suitors have presented before commissioners, including ESPN, Fox, NBC, Turner and Amazon. ESPN owns the rights for the championship game, semifinals and quarterfinals through the 2025 playoff and gets first right to match in first-round games.”

I know everyone thinks ESPN is behind everything (tinfoil hats on) but they only control the CFP broadcast rights from the original deal for the next 2 years. The overall CFP has been a ratings flop when the semifinals games have landed on NYE. Fox has more $$$ and will likely out bid Disney for the next CFP deal.
 
USCJacket said:
You are really reaching with the FSU isn’t going to get a seat at the table stance. FSU is a blue blood football brand. This expansion is about strengthening football footprints. FSU, Clemson will be picks 1-2 in 2 years when all the legal proceedings go through and an agreement is reached for FSU’s payout to leave the ACC opening the door for Clemson’s exit.

Despite the B1G, sec not being able to “officially“ talk to FSU, I’m sure Petitti and the uppers at the B1G have had casual conversations with FSU. There is no way FSU is taking a risk like this without knowing they have a landing spot. Neither the B1G or sec can have on the record conversations with any ACC team until the GOR exit situation is figured out.
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Absolutely not a reach. Auburn, Florida, Alabama, and UGA are powerful schools. Do they invite FSU in or let FSU fall back to the pre-Bowden days and keep the spoils for themselves? FSU has absolutely NO room to bargain. They will have to beg. There isn't gonna be a "you really need Tallahassee" argument to convince them. Hell, UNC and UVA arguably have a better case than FSU.

The powerful in CFB are going to make or break programs. If FSU is left out, they will wilt in the vine and become a glorified G5 while Florida, Auburn, Alabama, and UGA get rich.

FSU has not one shred of clout to improve their situation to an SEC level. None.
 
andrew said:
That is deliberate. FSU knows they are extremely likely to get a seat at the big table when it happens. GT may or may not, but it's hard for me to envision a scenario where GT gets an invite to a super league but FSU doesn't.
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Why likely? Why do any of the schools in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, or Louisiana have any will or need to bring in FSU?
 
JJacket said:
Absolutely not a reach. Auburn, Florida, Alabama, and UGA are powerful schools. Do they invite FSU in or let FSU fall back to the pre-Bowden days and keep the spoils for themselves? FSU has absolutely NO room to bargain. They will have to beg. There isn't gonna be a "you really need Tallahassee" argument to convince them. Hell, UNC and UVA arguably have a better case than FSU.

The powerful in CFB are going to make or break programs. If FSU is left out, they will wilt in the vine and become a glorified G5 while Florida, Auburn, Alabama, and UGA get rich.

FSU has not one shred of clout to improve their situation to an SEC level. None.
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FSU is a blue blood football brand. Do you really think they care about whether they end up in the B1G or sec? No. Sankey will make a run at FSU post the legal fight FSU has getting out of the GOR. You can bank on it. Remember, the sec also promised TAMU that Texas would never be an option for expansion. How did that work out? Simple. They were laughed at and outvoted.

The B1G would take FSU, Clemson tomorrow if they could. And you know Sankey will do anything he can in the end to prevent the B1G from invading and taking the top 2 non sec southern brands. South Carolina and UF are only 2 votes. That leaves 15 other votes. The sec has a new TV through 2034, B1G is through 2030.

Still a complete eye sore that both leagues will get an even bigger TV deal before the dinosaur ACC TV deal expires (if the ACC even lasts until then).
 
USCJacket said:
Did you miss the following in the article?

“CFP leaders are expected to get an update on TV negotiations next week. Multiple potential suitors have presented before commissioners, including ESPN, Fox, NBC, Turner and Amazon. ESPN owns the rights for the championship game, semifinals and quarterfinals through the 2025 playoff and gets first right to match in first-round games.”

I know everyone thinks ESPN is behind everything (tinfoil hats on) but they only control the CFP broadcast rights from the original deal for the next 2 years. The overall CFP has been a ratings flop when the semifinals games have landed on NYE. Fox has more $$$ and will likely out bid Disney for the next CFP deal.
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No.
 
USCJacket said:
FSU is a blue blood football brand. Do you really think they care about whether they end up in the B1G or sec? No. Sankey will make a run at FSU post the legal fight FSU has getting out of the GOR. You can bank on it. Remember, the sec also promised TAMU that Texas would never be an option for expansion. How did that work out? Simple. They were laughed at and outvoted.

The B1G would take FSU, Clemson tomorrow if they could. And you know Sankey will do anything he can in the end to prevent the B1G from invading and taking the top 2 non sec southern brands. South Carolina and UF are only 2 votes. That leaves 15 other votes. The sec has a new TV through 2034, B1G is through 2030.

Still a complete eye sore that both leagues will get an even bigger TV deal before the dinosaur ACC TV deal expires (if the ACC even lasts until then).
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Being a blue blood football brand didnt get them into a playoff with an undefeated record. That's why the reaction was so big (here included), cause it seemed to redefine just exactly how blue the blood needs to be and where the line is drawn.

The TAMU-Texas example doesn't hold as a comparison; Texas stands to up the amount of money all the teams receive. FSU does not. Or even if it did, all the teams in the SEC that would have interest in not bringing FSU would have more clout than TAMU did.

Big 10 could conceivably be another story depending on what sort of total size they envision and how far they'll bend on AAU
 
USCJacket said:
FSU is a blue blood football brand. Do you really think they care about whether they end up in the B1G or sec? No. Sankey will make a run at FSU post the legal fight FSU has getting out of the GOR. You can bank on it. Remember, the sec also promised TAMU that Texas would never be an option for expansion. How did that work out? Simple. They were laughed at and outvoted.

The B1G would take FSU, Clemson tomorrow if they could. And you know Sankey will do anything he can in the end to prevent the B1G from invading and taking the top 2 non sec southern brands. South Carolina and UF are only 2 votes. That leaves 15 other votes. The sec has a new TV through 2034, B1G is through 2030.

Still a complete eye sore that both leagues will get an even bigger TV deal before the dinosaur ACC TV deal expires (if the ACC even lasts until then).
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Blue blood? When? The 1990's? The Winston team was about keeping one player eligible. FSU is NOT a blue blood of college football.

It is amazing to see you consistently come onto the football board with your bizarre point of views.

BTW, Clemson isn't a blue blood either.

And even if either was, they have ABSOLUTELY no bargaining chip to keep the true blue bloods, Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame, Texas, USC, Alabama....from saying "OMG, we better take FSU or else"

If they decide against FSU when the jump occurs, it will make NO difference to college football. Nobody, outside FSU fans, will GAF.

Now try that with a team like Michigan, Alabama, Notre Dame, USC, UGA, Ohio State.....a true blue blood team. Not a prayer in the world, if CFB decided to make a super league, that any of those teams would be left out.

I imagine sitting there as SEC commissioner thinking "what does FSU bring us? We have Florida. We have Auburn. We have LSU. We have Alabama. We have Georgia." FSU does not move the needle for those teams at all.
 
JJacket said:
Why likely? Why do any of the schools in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, or Louisiana have any will or need to bring in FSU?
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I don't think they need anything, necessarily. But I think they want to basically control all of major college football, partly for money but also partly for ego reasons (don't forget, it "just means more" to them.)

The best way to do that is to make sure they have all of the schools with national brands who draw 80k+ and have fans who are passionate about spending money to win. They've already got most of those, when the time comes to truly split away it's hard for me to see them leaving out FSU and Clemson and letting them anchor a competing league or conference.

Bringing them in would give their new super league even more credence as well as knock out a potential competitor in one fell swoop
 
andrew said:
I don't think they need anything, necessarily. But I think they want to basically control all of major college football, partly for money but also partly for ego reasons (don't forget, it "just means more" to them.)

The best way to do that is to make sure they have all of the schools with national brands who draw 80k+ and have fans who are passionate about spending money to win. They've already got most of those, when the time comes to truly split away it's hard for me to see them leaving out FSU and Clemson and letting them anchor a competing league or conference.

Bringing them in would give their new super league even more credence as well as knock out a potential competitor in one fell swoop
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Again, leaving FSU out controls college football just as leaving Clemson out controls college football. The SEC holds most of the power in college football. When the big SEC schools decide to make a league in cooperation with the major BIG10 schools, they will decide who gets relegated to being a glorified G5 team. They don't need FSU or Clemson to do that. They can turn both of those schools into also rans. It would literally take 4-5 years for FSU to drop to nothing. Hell, when they were stinking it up, they had a game against Maryland that drew maybe 25k. That can happen quick at FSU.
 
JJacket said:
Again, leaving FSU out controls college football just as leaving Clemson out controls college football. The SEC holds most of the power in college football. When the big SEC schools decide to make a league in cooperation with the major BIG10 schools, they will decide who gets relegated to being a glorified G5 team. They don't need FSU or Clemson to do that. They can turn both of those schools into also rans. It would literally take 4-5 years for FSU to drop to nothing. Hell, when they were stinking it up, they had a game against Maryland that drew maybe 25k. That can happen quick at FSU.
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Guess we just have different opinions on whether FSU and Clemson are major football brands who could help anchor a competing league to the eventual super league.

We'll find out eventually, assuming they don't get invited as you are saying.
 
GTLiebs said:
Being a blue blood football brand didnt get them into a playoff with an undefeated record. That's why the reaction was so big (here included), cause it seemed to redefine just exactly how blue the blood needs to be and where the line is drawn.

The TAMU-Texas example doesn't hold as a comparison; Texas stands to up the amount of money all the teams receive. FSU does not. Or even if it did, all the teams in the SEC that would have interest in not bringing FSU would have more clout than TAMU did.

Big 10 could conceivably be another story depending on what sort of total size they envision and how far they'll bend on AAU
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The CFP was flawed when created from day 1. 4 teams with 5 P5 conferences. FSU didn’t get in because of Jordan Travis injury, it’s that simple. Right or wrong, it is what it is. They would have been beaten handily had they made it in. And for the record, I can’t stand Alabama and didn't think they deserved to be in either.

The vote to bring in FSU by the other 15 schools would be what matters, not UF. And you can bet Sankey would do anything and everything to get FSU in over watching the B1G coming south and taking a name brand.
 
JJacket said:
Blue blood? When? The 1990's? The Winston team was about keeping one player eligible. FSU is NOT a blue blood of college football.

It is amazing to see you consistently come onto the football board with your bizarre point of views.

BTW, Clemson isn't a blue blood either.
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What? FSU won the MNC in 2013 and made the CFP in 2014. Did they have a few down years as Jimbo left that program in a mess? Yes. Norvell has FSU back on track with a 10 and 13 win season back to back.

Clemson is a CFB era blue blood program. 6 CFP appearances, 6-4 record with 4 CFP MNC game appearances, 2 CFP MNC wins. In the last 12 years, Clemson has 1 season with less than 10+ wins which was this year finishing 9-4.

So let me ask, if Clemson and FSU aren’t blue blood ACC programs, who is? And if Clemson, FSU aren’t attractive ACC programs to the sec & B1G, who is?

By your logic (based solely on the fact you hate both FSU, Clemson) the ACC has no blue blood programs. Those 2 programs have carried the league from a national perspective based on results on the field.
 
savbandjacket said:
Because the GOR is intertwined with the ACC’s television contracts and revenue distribution agreements. When the TV “partner” is already drowning the conference and now takes further steps, beyond the current tv contract, to actively diminish the conference’s standing, there’s an element of bad faith that would arguably support equitable rescission of the GOR. This all depends on how involved espn is in all the back channel stuff (which we all know is the case).
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If true, Jim Phillips should be hiring a band of lawyers to go after Disney, right? I mean you seem to believe there is some form of a smoking gun proving that Disney is doing something to “actively diminish the conference’s standing” vs the other conference’s.

Honest question. Do you think the ACC could get another TV partner to pay what Disney is paying (which also includes taking over the ACCN)? I’d say yes, if they could have kept FSU from doing everything to leave.
 
USCJacket said:
What? FSU won the MNC in 2013 and made the CFP in 2014. Did they have a few down years as Jimbo left that program in a mess? Yes. Norvell has FSU back on track with a 10 and 13 win season back to back.

Clemson is a CFB era blue blood program. 6 CFP appearances, 6-4 record with 4 CFP MNC game appearances, 2 CFP MNC wins. In the last 12 years, Clemson has 1 season with less than 10+ wins which was this year finishing 9-4.

So let me ask, if Clemson and FSU aren’t blue blood ACC programs, who is? And if Clemson, FSU aren’t attractive ACC programs to the sec & B1G, who is?

By your logic (based solely on the fact you hate both FSU, Clemson) the ACC has no blue blood programs. Those 2 programs have carried the league from a national perspective based on results on the field.
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Blue blood ACC programs? How about NONE of them. A new league does not need ANY of the current ACC members, including Clemson and FSU. Hell, if I were a voting member of the SEC/BIG10 blue bloods, I'd invite Miami first and at least get a major city. Tallahassee is a ööööhole. Clemson is not even on par with Tallahassee as a city.

It will be an NFL model. Tallahassee adds nothing. Clemson adds nothing.
 
The SEC and BIG10 could move along swimmingly with no ACC schools in tow.
 
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