Players in the Portal [Official "They Gone" Thread]

TechRush said:
I've only heard about one, but I'm sure they're are others? Do you think they are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts so a player that wants to play but is at four games can play? That is plausible but we're talking about the NCAA here.
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I’d think they’re desperately trying to get more interest and eyeballs on the increasingly not attended and not watched bowl games.
 
The Champ said:
But your performance in baseball has almost 0 impact on your teammates play because the game is reliant on individual performances. A baseball player is rarely, if ever accountable, for how his teammates perform. Trout or Ohtani can be the best player in baseball, and post historic numbers, on terrible teams.

In football the RB or QB will almost never have a successful play/game/season if the OL whiffs a block, or WR drops passes. So the performance of one, directly impacts the success of others. It football, or even, basketball, your hear a lot more about player accountability and doing your job.
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What are you talking about? Jorge Soler’s home run in the World Series for example. If Ozzie and Dansby don’t get on base, it would’ve been a 1 run game, not a 3 run game. Mike Trout and Shohei Ohtani are the two best players in baseball and they can’t even make the playoffs bc their TEAM sucks.
 
CarsonNewmanJacket said:
What are you talking about? Jorge Soler’s home run in the World Series for example. If Ozzie and Dansby don’t get on base, it would’ve been a 1 run game, not a 3 run game. Mike Trout and Shohei Ohtani are the two best players in baseball and they can’t even make the playoffs bc their TEAM sucks.
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The point is that in football and basketball, teammates need to work well together on the field to be individually successful. A good quarterback can't throw a good pass if he's not on the same page as his WR, and vice versa. So. if you have a player who is "me, me, me", then it's going to hurt your chances of success because the players need to work well together to succeed.

The final product is not just the sum of all the individuals but how well they perform as a unit. Any good play takes multiple people working together.

However, in baseball, one player doesn't really need to work well with other players to be individually successful. Soler's homer wasn't a team effort, it was his indivudal performane against the pitcher. It counted for more because of his what his teammates did before him, yes, but it was really the result of three distinct individual performances added together. Even if you have a player who is "me, me, me", you don't worry too much because it's not like he's standing at the plate with his teammates.

The final product is much more of a sum of individual performances strung together than other sports. Winning is stringing together a bunch of individual good plays rather than everyone working together to make one good play. In general. Obviously there are still elements that require working as a team, like pitcher/catcher or turning a double play.
 
andrew said:
The point is that in football and basketball, teammates need to work well together on the field to be individually successful. A good quarterback can't throw a good pass if he's not on the same page as his WR, and vice versa. So. if you have a player who is "me, me, me", then it's going to hurt your chances of success because the players need to work well together to succeed.

The final product is not just the sum of all the individuals but how well they perform as a unit. Any good play takes multiple people working together.

However, in baseball, one player doesn't really need to work well with other players to be individually successful. Soler's homer wasn't a team effort, it was his indivudal performane against the pitcher. It counted for more because of his what his teammates did before him, yes, but it was really the result of three distinct individual performances added together. Even if you have a player who is "me, me, me", you don't worry too much because it's not like he's standing at the plate with his teammates.

The final product is much more of a sum of individual performances strung together than other sports. Winning is stringing together a bunch of individual good plays rather than everyone working together to make one good play. In general. Obviously there are still elements that require working as a team, like pitcher/catcher or turning a double play.
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Not necessarily. Football, for example, you got players like Brady, Mahomes, Peterson, etc. who can literally carry teams. Basketball you got your Lebrons, Kobes, and Doncics.
 
CarsonNewmanJacket said:
Not necessarily. Football, for example, you got players like Brady, Mahomes, Peterson, etc. who can literally carry teams. Basketball you got your Lebrons, Kobes, and Doncics.
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I'm not sure I really understand your argument here. You really think that when Brady makes a very good play, it doesn't involve multiple people all working together at the same time? Like in a play action pass, doesn't he have to work well with the RB to make the fake? And then understand who his linemen are to know where to step up in the pocket? And be on the same page as his receiver as to how he will adjust his route to the defense?

Whereas in baseball, when Soler stepped up to the plate, it was him against the pitcher. The other players didn't matter to that battle (unless you count the Houston Astros banging on trash cans.) After that homer no one said "Wow, I can't believe how well Soler worked with Ozzie and Dansby there! That's the result of all those long hours they spent practicing together. They really function well as a unit during each at-bat."

Basketball definitely has more individual elements than football but even the best players still rely on teammates for picks, spacing, assists, etc., much more than teammates rely on each other in baseball.
 
andrew said:
I'm not sure I really understand your argument here. You really think that when Brady makes a very good play, it doesn't involve multiple people all working together at the same time? Like in a play action pass, doesn't he have to work well with the RB to make the fake? And then understand who his linemen are to know where to step up in the pocket? And be on the same page as his receiver as to how he will adjust his route to the defense?

Whereas in baseball, when Soler stepped up to the plate, it was him against the pitcher. The other players didn't matter to that battle (unless you count the Houston Astros banging on trash cans.) After that homer no one said "Wow, I can't believe how well Soler worked with Ozzie and Dansby there! That's the result of all those long hours they spent practicing together. They really function well as a unit during each at-bat."

Basketball definitely has more individual elements than football but even the best players still rely on teammates for picks, spacing, assists, etc., much more than teammates rely on each other in baseball.
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You're being very selective. Baseball has similar team aspects to the other sports and those sports have individual aspects. You can't turn a double play, generally, without teamwork. Same for a rundown or a hit-and-run, etc. There is positioning for the entire team for each batter. In football, if the WR can't beat his man, he won't be open for a pass. Same for individual blocking and tackling.
 
clapper said:
You're being very selective. Baseball has similar team aspects to the other sports and those sports have individual aspects. You can't turn a double play, generally, without teamwork. Same for a rundown or a hit-and-run, etc. There is positioning for the entire team for each batter. In football, if the WR can't beat his man, he won't be open for a pass. Same for individual blocking and tackling.
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Well, I used Soler's homer because it's the example CarsonNewmanJacket used to argue that baseball is not an individual sport. But I also mentioned there there are some elements of baseball that do involve teamwork. Turning a double play, catcher/pitcher relatioship, etc. Overall, though, I feel it's much less of a factor than in football.

I guess to put it one other way, it seems much easier to evaluate players individually in baseball than in football. It's pretty common to hear, "Yeah, player X had a great game hitting today, but unfortunately his teammates couldn't hit so they couldn't score any runs" or "Player Y was unbelievable today in the field even though his teammates' errors resulted in a bunch of runs."

Whereas in football, it's rare to hear, "Brady had a fantastic game but the receivers weren't getting open today so he didn't get many passing yards" or "Adrian Peterson had an incredible game running the ball even though he couldn't get any yards because the offensive line sucked." You are much more likely to succeed or fail as a unit.

Basically, in baseball, how you perform tends to be in your own control and you can do great even if your teammates aren't doing well. Whereas in football, how you perform is very much reliant on your teammates -- if your teammates aren't doing well, or if you're not working well with them, it's very difficult to have a great individual performance.

Again, though, it's a matter of degrees and certainly there are incredible individual "despite his teammate" performances in football sometimes and incredible team plays in baseball sometimes.

And with that I will bow out of this discussion as I've already written way too much on it. Feel free to have the last word.
 
andrew said:
Basically, in baseball, how you perform tends to be in your own control and you can do great even if your teammates aren't doing well. Whereas in football, how you perform is very much reliant on your teammates -- if your teammates aren't doing well, or if you're not working well with them, it's very difficult to have a great individual performance.
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In baseball, you can get pitched around. That is relying on your teammates. You'll see better pitches with a good teammate batting behind you, or a runner on base in front of you. Conversely, Calvin Johnson put up great numbers. Barry Sanders is probably an even better example. The teams around them sucked.
 
andrew said:
I'm not sure I really understand your argument here. You really think that when Brady makes a very good play, it doesn't involve multiple people all working together at the same time? Like in a play action pass, doesn't he have to work well with the RB to make the fake? And then understand who his linemen are to know where to step up in the pocket? And be on the same page as his receiver as to how he will adjust his route to the defense?

Whereas in baseball, when Soler stepped up to the plate, it was him against the pitcher. The other players didn't matter to that battle (unless you count the Houston Astros banging on trash cans.) After that homer no one said "Wow, I can't believe how well Soler worked with Ozzie and Dansby there! That's the result of all those long hours they spent practicing together. They really function well as a unit during each at-bat."

Basketball definitely has more individual elements than football but even the best players still rely on teammates for picks, spacing, assists, etc., much more than teammates rely on each other in baseball.
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But when Trout hits a home run and nobody is on base compared to Soler who hit a bomb with 3 guys on, that shows the value in needing a team more. Trout and Ohtani combined for 5 home runs and 7 RBIs in an 8-7 loss.
 
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