Slow Progress

[JJacket]

1. Is an imaginary construct a bunch of posters have latched onto. The 'our OL was less than 6 foot tall' BS that was repeated over and over; but some those pathetic midgets that CPJ recruited on the OL are somehow not being beat out by our recruits and transfers. In fact, on Saturday when Minihan went out the offense collapsed and there is one poster on here who repeatedly complained that the new guy was worse.

No doubt CPJ OL were recruited to run a different offense; but there is more going on there with OL than you can simply blame on CPJ OL recruits.

CPJ didn't leave a roster that was completely bare and depleted like several posters on here keep repeating ad nauseum. CPJ left a roster that one of his disciples could come in a be successful with. A good OC could also have come up with a decent non-triple option offense with the talent that was left here, much of which is still making key contributions. But we all know that didn't happen, we got PNope and started running an offense that didn't fit the roster at all, and started doing who knows what on the OL. And I don't believe for half a second the latest tripe that it takes 3+ years to teach on OL how to block.

We are in year 3 and the only position group that is arguable playing better then when CPJ left is the RB's.

Then why did we suck the last few years if our roster wasn't depleted? We were being manhandled on the line by such big time teams as Duke.

We were shocked and wanted Gailey fired IMMEDIATELY when he dared to lose to Duke. Now, the 3-O apologists spin Duke as to somehow being a world beater the last several years of CPJ. Our offense helped Duke beat us. It helped them in recruiting.

 

[coit]

Qb? Yates is good; IMHO a better passer than sims. So what are you talking about?

That’s your takeaway? LOL I won’t waste my time trying to ‘splain it to ya.

 

[JJacket]

That’s your takeaway? LOL I won’t waste my time trying to ‘splain it to ya.

A poster had said Yates had a higher QBR than Sims. Not true, btw.

 

[MidnightJacket]

I love how we bring up getting manhandled by clemson and UGA as evidence we were terrible. Despite them both only losing to National title contending teams during that same timeframe. This is what Pj talks about with not lining up to expectation. We were apparently supposed to be going .500 against teams winning at a combined .950 percentage.

If back to bowl games was everyone’s reasonable expectation in year 4…I’m not even sure what to think. Was Geoff Collins hired in solely to get us back to where we were when PJ left with a different offense? Bizarre. Why wouldn’t we expect at least what we got away from?

I don’t think the line would’ve been as bad had PJ stayed. We had done well with patchwork lines in the past. In addition our best lineman transferred following the retirement.

I don’t understand the consistency comment. We were pretty Close to the top of the conference division as recently as 2018 which included a loss to Clemson. Meaning we went 4-2 against our division that year. You’d think we’d be a lot worse given all the years those teams had seen the option. Really nothing anyone says about the end of the PJ era is grounded in facts. People like to say it is. But down to it they were mad we lost to Duke and couldn’t beat Clemson or UGA. Should they be mad about that? Maybe. Should it cause us to think it necessary to burn it all down? Definitely not.

and we won 3 of our last 5 bowl games.

It's not that we lost to ugag and Clemson, it was the declining nature of the competitiveness against ugag and Clemson, to the point that being absolutely manhandled in and of itself was the problem. Losing to ugag by a touchdown in a tight game is frustrating and sucks, but there is respect that the team is atleast within striking distance of future success. Being manhandled, particularly after closing out a decade with a coach, is something else entirely.

Let me preface this by saying PJ retired. We didn't fire him, we didn't run him off, he retired - a replacement was required, and there would have been difficulty for PJ, let alone any replacement where something other than the 3O was being adopted. Geoff Collins was hired to get us back to within striking distance of ugag and Clemson. The biggest glaring issue from those final games under PJ was lack of talent, particularly on the lines, and it was a particularly concerning issue given the state of line recruiting there at the end.

You choose to believe the lines would have been okay for PJ, but as noted, the lack of talent on the lines compared to our big rivals AND the poor recruiting in this area indicate that no improvement was coming. Would the lines have been stringed together to keep us competitive against VPI? Maybe, who knows at this point, but the problems noted were already in place at that point and self evident.

We were trending downwards. If signs indicated that we were trending up AND PJ were fired, I would share your opinion, but that's not what happened.

 

[MidnightJacket]

Thanks for the detailed, well reasoned info.

Do you have any guesses why our DBs are so bad, we have a bunch of guys that look like they came from "Central Casting" playing DB for us, they are all tall, most are fast based on the catapult data.

But when they get in Game situations, they just flat out refuse to play things with sound mental fundamentals, they do things that are head scratching, things that make me say, there's no way that his Coaches taught him to do that and WTF was he thinking?

Our DBs have 7 to 10 of those every game instead of 1 or 2.

What is going on with that position group?

If the problem was we were leaving guys on an island too long, maybe you could tie it to the DLine. Not getting enough pressure on the QB this year, aside from UNC, has been a legit problem. But there have been way too many busted coverages, so either the players aren't bought into the system or the position coach/DC is awful, or a combination of the both. There are legit issues in the secondary though. I expect this to either get corrected by GC being more hands on if he isn't already or GC to make changes to staff.

 

[GTLiebs]

1. Is an imaginary construct a bunch of posters have latched onto. The 'our OL was less than 6 foot tall' BS that was repeated over and over; but some those pathetic midgets that CPJ recruited on the OL are somehow not being beat out by our recruits and transfers. In fact, on Saturday when Minihan went out the offense collapsed and there is one poster on here who repeatedly complained that the new guy was worse.

No doubt CPJ OL were recruited to run a different offense; but there is more going on there with OL than you can simply blame on CPJ OL recruits.

You're not completely wrong on the last sentence, but part of the issue with OL we started with in 2019 wasn't just some issues in body type, it was also an issue of numbers. I think we recruited 2 OL in 2018 and maybe had 2 on the books in 2019 that decommitted after the coach change. A number of the offensive linemen that were left have transferred out since that time (someone elses post somewhere details it a lot better). Part of our issue is that Minihan's backup is a true freshman (most of the offensive linemens backups are 1st or 2nd years).

 

[MACHETE]

It’s hard for me to criticize the defense after watching yesterday. Time and time again they gave the offense an opportunity to lead us to victory and time after time we were let down. How many points does the defense need to score to not be blamed?

D gave up 550 yards of offense and 33 points...

 

[RamblinWreck92]

My point is this: the fear was CPJ would fail here AND THEN it would be difficult to get away from the option. He did not fail here. He was not failing here. We chose to get away from the option for no reason other than we wanted to throw more and be like everyone else.

A few bad years does not equate to the worst period of GT football in its history.

He was failing here. '17 & '18 were downward-trending years of malaise. Recruiting sucked. Interest was dying. Attendance was dropping. Donations were disappearing.

Insert punchline on how the latter 2 haven't improved but there's no denial that recruiting has seen a massive uptick, as has interest though it will surely wane at the correct lack-of-success rate. No idea on money inflow but it's probably better than under PJ.

I'm always amazed at the myopia of PJ fans. We had completely fallen off the national radar under him and become a cute little gimmick, not to be taken seriously. 2010 and 2015 proved that 2009 and 2014 were aberrations rather than the norm, which turned out to be more like Gailey's annual 6-7 wins. The mutt wins were nice but PJ's time here was done and it was -- and continues to be -- time to move on.

 

[MidnightJacket]

1. Is an imaginary construct a bunch of posters have latched onto. The 'our OL was less than 6 foot tall' BS that was repeated over and over; but some those pathetic midgets that CPJ recruited on the OL are somehow not being beat out by our recruits and transfers. In fact, on Saturday when Minihan went out the offense collapsed and there is one poster on here who repeatedly complained that the new guy was worse.

No doubt CPJ OL were recruited to run a different offense; but there is more going on there with OL than you can simply blame on CPJ OL recruits.

CPJ didn't leave a roster that was completely bare and depleted like several posters on here keep repeating ad nauseum. CPJ left a roster that one of his disciples could come in a be successful with. A good OC could also have come up with a decent non-triple option offense with the talent that was left here, much of which is still making key contributions. But we all know that didn't happen, we got PNope and started running an offense that didn't fit the roster at all, and started doing who knows what on the OL. And I don't believe for half a second the latest tripe that it takes 3+ years to teach on OL how to block.

We are in year 3 and the only position group that is arguable playing better then when CPJ left is the RB's.

Don't get your panties in a wad and feign tears that I called the OL recruiting pathetic. PJ was recruiting an average of like 2 guys a year for the entire OL - that's pathetic and not sustainable. And yeah, if they've been training for 3-5 years at the collegiate level, that's preferable than throwing a true freshman into a starting role. Add in the fact that we walked away with 0 OL in 2019, as GC decided it was better to cut bait and run than honor the offers on PJs OL commits. KQ has noted several times we had as many as 10 reaches on the roster when GC took over. So was GC dumb to drop those OL commits in 2019? Maybe, but if he didn't feel they would be able to contribute, there is reason to believe there was merit to that decision.

And look I'm not bashing the players who came here and played. Immense respect and kudos to them. But the situation is what it is. I get it, the jury is out on PNode and it's not looking good. But it was made clear early on that we would run the offense we aspired to be rather than who we were on paper. So that meant dropping the option.

 

[Allen Koholic]

Then why did we suck the last few years if our roster wasn't depleted? We were being manhandled on the line by such big time teams as Duke.

We were shocked and wanted Gailey fired IMMEDIATELY when he dared to lose to Duke. Now, the 3-O apologists spin Duke as to somehow being a world beater the last several years of CPJ. Our offense helped Duke beat us. It helped them in recruiting.

I wish we sucked as bad for the first three years of Geoff Collins football as we did for the last three of Paul Johnson.

 

[MidnightJacket]

One last point. When Dabo came onto the scene at Clemson, for all the buffoonery he brought, they took OL recruiting seriously to the tune of 4-5 guys every year until they built themselves up into a power. Go look at the recruiting classes for the last however long you want to look under PJ. OL recruiting was around 2 guys a year in a position group that requires 5 starters, where you usually need 3ish years of development to get the body physically ready to play the position. Now look at the priority being given to OLine (and even DLine) recruiting under GC. We may not have the right coordinators to take us to the promised land, but this is the first time I've ever followed Tech where we're finally starting to prioritize the lines and get the size and numbers comparable to our biggest rivals.

That's why GC was given a 7 year contract. This is a marathon.

 

[BrentwoodJacket]

You're not completely wrong on the last sentence, but part of the issue with OL we started with in 2019 wasn't just some issues in body type, it was also an issue of numbers. I think we recruited 2 OL in 2018 and maybe had 2 on the books in 2019 that decommitted after the coach change. A number of the offensive linemen that were left have transferred out since that time (someone elses post somewhere details it a lot better). Part of our issue is that Minihan's backup is a true freshman (most of the offensive linemens backups are 1st or 2nd years).

I thought Lay was Minihan's backup.

 

[Allen Koholic]

 

[cyptomcat]

Then why did we suck the last few years if our roster wasn't depleted? We were being manhandled on the line by such big time teams as Duke.

We were shocked and wanted Gailey fired IMMEDIATELY when he dared to lose to Duke. Now, the 3-O apologists spin Duke as to somehow being a world beater the last several years of CPJ. Our offense helped Duke beat us. It helped them in recruiting.

last 5 years of CPJ:

2014 ACC Coastal 1st — 11-3 — Beat uga, Lost ACCCG, Won 2014 Orange Bowl against Mississippi State, 49–34
2015 ACC Coastal 7th — 3-9 —
2016 ACC Coastal 5th — 9-4 — Beat uga, Won 2016 TaxSlayer Bowl against Kentucky, 33-18
2017 ACC Coastal 3rd — 5-6 —
2018 ACC Coastal 2nd — 7-6 — Lost 2018 Quick LaneBowl against Minnesota, 10-34

List of Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets football seasons - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Akinji07]

I don't think anything less than 6-6 and top 50 ranking is acceptable for 2022.

We open against Clemson then we play Western Carolina, Ole Miss and then UCF. That’s our September schedule. There has to be massive improvements in the off-season for us to go 6-6.

 

[smokey_wasp]

I think I see where you are going the best head to head comparison of Sims & Yates passing is NIU:

Sims 3/8, 0 td, 0 int
Yates 12/18, 1 td, 0 int

and UNC,

Sims 10/13, 1 td, 0 int
Yates 3/6, 0 td, 0 int

Bottom line is that Yates has the better passing stats this year, nothing there to laugh about. Sims has the better running ability and some opinions are Sims has the higher future potential.

Yates has put up zero TDs vs Power 5 competition in 6 quarters. Of all the silly things to argue about, a QB controversy is way down the list.

 

[JJacket]

He was failing here. '17 & '18 were downward-trending years of malaise. Recruiting sucked. Interest was dying. Attendance was dropping. Donations were disappearing.

Insert punchline on how the latter 2 haven't improved but there's no denial that recruiting has seen a massive uptick, as has interest though it will surely wane at the correct lack-of-success rate. No idea on money inflow but it's probably better than under PJ.

I'm always amazed at the myopia of PJ fans. We had completely fallen off the national radar under him and become a cute little gimmick, not to be taken seriously. 2010 and 2015 proved that 2009 and 2014 were aberrations rather than the norm, which turned out to be more like Gailey's annual 6-7 wins. The mutt wins were nice but PJ's time here was done and it was -- and continues to be -- time to move on.

COVID has a bit to do with our attendance. Couple the 2020 COVID year with how we were trending and many ST fans probably just decided to not renew

 

[JJacket]

Yates has put up zero TDs vs Power 5 competition in 6 quarters. Of all the silly things to argue about, a QB controversy is way down the list.

And Yates does not have better passing stats. That is false

 

[smokey_wasp]

I should note I was singing Yates' praises as recently as after the Clemson game. But seeing enough of both of them, Sims gives us a chance to win.

 

[Allen Koholic]

One last point. When Dabo came onto the scene at Clemson, for all the buffoonery he brought, they took OL recruiting seriously to the tune of 4-5 guys every year until they built themselves up into a power. Go look at the recruiting classes for the last however long you want to look under PJ. OL recruiting was around 2 guys a year in a position group that requires 5 starters, where you usually need 3ish years of development to get the body physically ready to play the position. Now look at the priority being given to OLine (and even DLine) recruiting under GC. We may not have the right coordinators to take us to the promised land, but this is the first time I've ever followed Tech where we're finally starting to prioritize the lines and get the size and numbers comparable to our biggest rivals.

That's why GC was given a 7 year contract. This is a marathon.

By year number three, Dabo had Clemson rolling. Hell, you could make an argument that in his first full season, they were exceeding expectations. Dabo is a clown. But his act works. Collins is a clown, and his act doesn't.