The Geoff Collins Effect!

andrew said:
This is very subjective, but I'd disagree. I'd say the offense has been more exciting under CGC than that last year or two under CPJ even though overall it's sucked. The last couple years under CPJ we almost never even ran the triple option. It was super ugly even though it was decently productive. It was quite a change from earlier years, which had some of the most enjoyable offensive football I've ever watched.



Hah. Some, sure. But I think most acknowledged that it was going to be a very difficult transition that first year or two.
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First year or two.....gone and some.
 
GTFLETCH said:
I wonder if the ticket sales always beeing less than CPJ last season shows that folks were not buying CGC hype, or if there is another reason why it has been low? not interviewing or hiring Jeff Monken or Ken N, looks like the AD really lost some of the fanbase?
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Yes. I’m sure that a large part of the fan base really wanted to continue to run the triple option which had become completely ineffective, under a new head coach from Army, who undoubtedly understood way more about how to run it than Paul Johnson did.
 
GTFLETCH said:
Makes me wonder why Jeff Monken and Ken N were never interviewed and who was pushing for a change from the flexbone? It is pretty clear from the season ticket sales that it was not the fanbase. I have heard rumors that it was Pat Swilling as he did not want his son BJS to play BB in CPJ system... Not sure if that is rumor or if it is true....
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I think Stansbury had his mind made up he was going away from the triple once Paul left.
They only interviewed two people - Collins and Whisenhunt. And they knew in the middle of the interview Whisenhunt wasn't the guy they were looking for.
Nor was he the droids they were looking for.
And they still haven't found what they're looking for.
 
GoldZ said:
Seems some posters are trying to prop up CGC much like certain news outlets are trying to prop up certain "leaders"!?
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Elon was right, this board is full of bots and beestorm is just trying to get a 40 billion dollar buyout.
 
Tampa Jacket said:
Yes. I’m sure that a large part of the fan base really wanted to continue to run the triple option which had become completely ineffective, under a new head coach from Army, who undoubtedly understood way more about how to run it than Paul Johnson did.
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Season tickets sales in 2019 were down 3.2M, which is only 30K fans and over the course of the season that would equate to about 5K per home game. For me that is reasonable and another poster today mentioned he thinks that it was about right. CPJ sidewalk fans left, he mentioned winning cures all things and I agree.

It was eye opening that 5K of CPJ or GT TO fans were worth around 3.2M, however the data is there. All the hype that CGC brought I was shocked that he did not make up 5K fans, especially those who dislike CPJ and the TO. I mean it was year 1.

So since CGC did not move the needle in Ticket sales in year 1, my next question is it that the there are folks who did not purchase season tickets becuase they did not consider/interview anyone besides CGC? I know they through out a name Ken Whisenhunt, but they never considered Jeff Monken or Ken N.

I now hindsight is 20/20, but the lack of ticket sales in year 1 flies in the face of the Initial hire. Again my next thought was CGC aligned with the GTAA AI 2020 fundraiser, which by all acounts was a success. So maybe CGC was a hire for the fundraiser? Just trying to understand the hiring thought process.

Of course the other side of the coin is the AD is an idiot, but I am not so sure about that.
 
GTFLETCH said:
Do not have 2022 data or last year yet... But you can start to see why CGC is on the hot seat. However if the coaching changes work and we get bowl eligibility it will be interesting to see these numbers in 2023 and 2024.

TICKET SALES
2018 (CPJ) - 14.2M
2019 (CGC) - 11M
2020 (CGC) - 10.3M
2021(GCG) - 3.4M (Covid year)

DONOR CONTRIBUTIONS
2018 (CPJ) - 11.5M
2019 (CGC) - 12.8M
2020 (CGC) - 10.9M
2021(GCG) - 7.7M


CORPORATE SPONSORSHIP, ADVERTISING, LICENSING
2018 (CPJ) - 6M
2019 (CGC) - 8M
2020 (CGC) - 7M
2021(GCG) - 7.2M



Custom Reporting Results | College Athletics Database

knightnewhousedata.org
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I posted before that every year we retain him we lose an additional $1.5M over the previous year. Take the Covid out and at the end of year 4 we will have degraded about $6M in tickets and donation revenue.

I’m guessing a change of coach Year 1 will only halt the bleeding. A rosy scenario given the economics would be a good hire lifts revenue $1M per year.

We may have been able to get back to 2018 levels in 2027 had we hit the eject button at the end of last season. Now we’re going to be clear into 2029 before we hit 2018 levels. This experiment is literally going to cost us a decade, God forbid we make another poor hire. It could be 2040 before we are able to grind our way out of the ditch.

We wanted it bad, we got it bad. Thankfully we’ll be able to tell our grandkids stories about the glorious 2 decades of GT football under O’Leary, Gailey and Johnson.
 
The Collins Effect = C

The Chan Gailey Effect = G

C = G - 4
 
GTFLETCH said:
Season tickets sales in 2019 were down 3.2M, which is only 30K fans and over the course of the season that would equate to about 5K per home game. For me that is reasonable and another poster today mentioned he thinks that it was about right. CPJ sidewalk fans left, he mentioned winning cures all things and I agree.

It was eye opening that 5K of CPJ or GT TO fans were worth around 3.2M, however the data is there. All the hype that CGC brought I was shocked that he did not make up 5K fans, especially those who dislike CPJ and the TO. I mean it was year 1.

So since CGC did not move the needle in Ticket sales in year 1, my next question is it that the there are folks who did not purchase season tickets becuase they did not consider/interview anyone besides CGC? I know they through out a name Ken Whisenhunt, but they never considered Jeff Monken or Ken N.

I now hindsight is 20/20, but the lack of ticket sales in year 1 flies in the face of the Initial hire. Again my next thought was CGC aligned with the GTAA AI 2020 fundraiser, which by all acounts was a success. So maybe CGC was a hire for the fundraiser? Just trying to understand the hiring thought process.

Of course the other side of the coin is the AD is an idiot, but I am not so sure about that.
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Agreed. Conventional wisdom is that the energy of a new hire means more sales and better recruiting the first full year. I'd be curious to see if the sales tanked through the first year or always were bad as that's a massive red flag.

It seems wild that the Tix fell enough that the increase in donor funding didn't even make up for it. That funding boost has been touted as a big success for tstan.
 
GTFLETCH said:
Season tickets sales in 2019 were down 3.2M, which is only 30K fans and over the course of the season that would equate to about 5K per home game. For me that is reasonable and another poster today mentioned he thinks that it was about right. CPJ sidewalk fans left, he mentioned winning cures all things and I agree.

It was eye opening that 5K of CPJ or GT TO fans were worth around 3.2M, however the data is there. All the hype that CGC brought I was shocked that he did not make up 5K fans, especially those who dislike CPJ and the TO. I mean it was year 1.

So since CGC did not move the needle in Ticket sales in year 1, my next question is it that the there are folks who did not purchase season tickets becuase they did not consider/interview anyone besides CGC? I know they through out a name Ken Whisenhunt, but they never considered Jeff Monken or Ken N.

I now hindsight is 20/20, but the lack of ticket sales in year 1 flies in the face of the Initial hire. Again my next thought was CGC aligned with the GTAA AI 2020 fundraiser, which by all acounts was a success. So maybe CGC was a hire for the fundraiser? Just trying to understand the hiring thought process.

Of course the other side of the coin is the AD is an idiot, but I am not so sure about that.
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Stansbury is not an idiot. Stansbury graduated from Georgia Tech. Idiots do not graduate from Georgia Tech. Stansbury also played football at Georgia Tech.

The hiring process made sense to me.
The roster was almost completely devoid of P5 talent with the exception of maybe three or four players at skill positions. We needed a big recruiter. Collins fit the bill.

Collins not only had roots and love for Georgia Tech. Collins helped put together some impressive recruiting classes for O’Leary. And as Stansberry pointed out in his introduction interview, he had ties with the “Saban coaching tree.” Collins also grew up in the area and he had personal relationships with high school football coaches in the state.

I still like Collins general idea of promoting the “404”. And I still think Collins is a really good recruiter.

The hire made perfect sense.

Georgia Tech’s academic rigors and our alumni and fan base lack of support for a football program since Bobby Dodd retired are legendary. It’s why it is regarded as one of the hardest jobs in college football.

Monken and Ken N. would have been a much worse hires. There is zero chance they would have improved a program that was already failing with a coach who is the master of the triple option.

To me at least, it was unforeseeable that Collins would be so far in over his head from an X’s, O’s, player development, and organizational standpoint.
 
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Tampa Jacket said:
Stansbury is not an idiot. Stansbury graduated from Georgia Tech. Idiots do not graduate from Georgia Tech. Stansbury also played football at Georgia Tech.

The hiring process made sense to me.
The roster was almost completely devoid of P5 talent with the exception of maybe three or four players at skill positions. We needed a big recruiter. Collins fit the bill.

Collins not only had roots and love for Georgia Tech. Collins helped put together some impressive recruiting classes for O’Leary. And as Stansberry pointed out in his introduction interview, he had ties with the “Saban coaching tree.” Collins also grew up in the area and he had personal relationships with high school football coaches in the state.

I still like Collins general idea of promoting the “404”. And I still think Collins is a really good recruiter.

The hire made perfect sense.

Georgia Tech’s academic rigors and our alumni and fan base lack of support for a football program since Bobby Dodd retired are legendary. It’s why it is regarded as one of the hardest jobs in college football.

Monken and Ken N. would have been a much worse hires. There is zero chance they would have improved a program that was already failing with a coach who is the master of the triple option.

To me at least, it was unforeseeable that Collins would be so far in over his head from an X’s, O’s, player development, and organizational standpoint.
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I get you are not a TO/flexbone guy or a CPJ fan. However the question is the same, I will try and phrase it differently: from an X’s, O’s, player development, and organizational standpoint, would Jeff Monken or Ken N have been more successful than our current hire which is 3 wins per season? With Tobias Oliver and Jordan Yates at QB GT had leadership, and Tobias ran all over VT. If Monken or Ken N we're hired and given the same support that CGC has been given, I bet they win more than 3 games a year.

While I can see people doubting that Jeff Monken, or Ken N could take GT to the success level that CPJ had on the Flats. (ACC Title, 2 OB appearance) I do find it hard to believe that they would win less or be worse than CGC. So I suppose I do see a point, if the GT FB fanbase truly thought that CPJ and his Flexbone scheme were the problem and not the reason for the success then maybe the AD was trying to give the fans what they wanted???

The interesting thing is when I attended most games as a season ticket holder from (2011-2021) most folks I talk to disagree with the hire and most people had no problem with CPJ and his scheme. (from 2011-2018 really all I heard negative was in 2015 when we had a ton of injuries that folks didn't like the OL coach) It is only on the boards where people voice having an issue with the Flexbone and CPJ and his recruiting and staff. Also most fans I speak to were upset at how disrespectful CGC is to CPJ, from alienating forming CPJ players to his first spring game Flexbone formation antics.

What I hear most fans says, is wow look how supported CGC has been by the GTAA and AD. I also heard open criticism of Geoff Collins. which brings me to my next question, I wonder why CPJ never that supported on the FLATS after the AD D-RAD left, was the AD Bobblehead Bobinski not a FB fan, or were donors sour on CPJ. From CPJ the issue was the AD, as he was not a FB guy. So basically I still wonder what Jeff Monken or Ken N could do at Georgia Tech with that same support as CGC has received on the Flats.
 
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Or, and I am just spitballing here, you option-lovers are just bad fans and we are reaping what we sowed when Paul Johnson stopped the pretense of recruiting because he knew he was retiring. I am glad Collins is pulling out all the stops to improve the team.
 
Tampa Jacket said:
Stansbury is not an idiot. Stansbury graduated from Georgia Tech. Idiots do not graduate from Georgia Tech. Stansbury also played football at Georgia Tech.

The hiring process made sense to me.
The roster was almost completely devoid of P5 talent with the exception of maybe three or four players at skill positions. We needed a big recruiter. Collins fit the bill.

Collins not only had roots and love for Georgia Tech. Collins helped put together some impressive recruiting classes for O’Leary. And as Stansberry pointed out in his introduction interview, he had ties with the “Saban coaching tree.” Collins also grew up in the area and he had personal relationships with high school football coaches in the state.

I still like Collins general idea of promoting the “404”. And I still think Collins is a really good recruiter.

The hire made perfect sense.

Georgia Tech’s academic rigors and our alumni and fan base lack of support for a football program since Bobby Dodd retired are legendary. It’s why it is regarded as one of the hardest jobs in college football.

Monken and Ken N. would have been a much worse hires. There is zero chance they would have improved a program that was already failing with a coach who is the master of the triple option.

To me at least, it was unforeseeable that Collins would be so far in over his head from an X’s, O’s, player development, and organizational standpoint.
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Unforeseeable? Temple says Hi.
 
GTFLETCH said:
Do not have 2022 data or last year yet...
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Last year is 2021, is the data partial there? What are you trying to communicate with this line?

But you can start to see why CGC is on the hot seat. However if the coaching changes work and we get bowl eligibility it will be interesting to see these numbers in 2023 and 2024.

TICKET SALES
2018 (CPJ) - 14.2M
2019 (CGC) - 11M
2020 (CGC) - 10.3M
2021(GCG) - 3.4M (Covid year)

DONOR CONTRIBUTIONS
2018 (CPJ) - 11.5M
2019 (CGC) - 12.8M
2020 (CGC) - 10.9M
2021(GCG) - 7.7M


CORPORATE SPONSORSHIP, ADVERTISING, LICENSING
2018 (CPJ) - 6M
2019 (CGC) - 8M
2020 (CGC) - 7M
2021(GCG) - 7.2M



Custom Reporting Results | College Athletics Database

knightnewhousedata.org
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Why do you list 2021 as the covid year? Is fall 2020 in FY21? If so, wouldn't that mean that the first year you're attributing to Collins actually a CPJ year? If not, 2020 is the covid year and well exceeded my expectations and 2021 is an absolute disaster.
 
Techbert said:
Or, and I am just spitballing here, you option-lovers are just bad fans and we are reaping what we sowed when Paul Johnson stopped the pretense of recruiting because he knew he was retiring. I am glad Collins is pulling out all the stops to improve the team.
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Did he stop or was he not supported at the level Geoff Collins has been? I mean I do not see CPJ at any time on the Flats having the same amount of support that Geoff Collins got starting Day 1. It is very interesting dynamic if you ask me.
 
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Tampa Jacket said:
Stansbury is not an idiot. Stansbury graduated from Georgia Tech. Idiots do not graduate from Georgia Tech. Stansbury also played football at Georgia Tech.

The hiring process made sense to me.
The roster was almost completely devoid of P5 talent with the exception of maybe three or four players at skill positions. We needed a big recruiter. Collins fit the bill.

Collins not only had roots and love for Georgia Tech. Collins helped put together some impressive recruiting classes for O’Leary. And as Stansberry pointed out in his introduction interview, he had ties with the “Saban coaching tree.” Collins also grew up in the area and he had personal relationships with high school football coaches in the state.

I still like Collins general idea of promoting the “404”. And I still think Collins is a really good recruiter.

The hire made perfect sense.

Georgia Tech’s academic rigors and our alumni and fan base lack of support for a football program since Bobby Dodd retired are legendary. It’s why it is regarded as one of the hardest jobs in college football.

Monken and Ken N. would have been a much worse hires. There is zero chance they would have improved a program that was already failing with a coach who is the master of the triple option.

To me at least, it was unforeseeable that Collins would be so far in over his head from an X’s, O’s, player development, and organizational standpoint.
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Unforeseeable that Collins would be in over his head.....? That's the AD's job. Did he review the 20-25 games that Collins coached at Temple where the record started declining as soon as he took the reigns? Certainly there was nothing there to convince anyone of reasonable intelligence that Collins would mystically become a master strategist when he arrived at Tech. The AD fell for a salesman's pitch.
 
andrew said:
It's pretty simple, the more you win, the more tickets you sell, contributions you collect, etc. Lose, and the numbers go in the opposite direction.

Once CPJ left, absolutely everybody expected us to do poorly the following season, so it's not surprising that everything went down. Even though everyone knew the switch to a non-TO scheme would take time, people still want to see wins, and will pull back if they don't expect them. This isn't the Geoff Collins effect, this is something that has been around since the dawn of ticketed sporting events.

Had we started winning in the second or third season, you would have seen the numbers go up. But of course we didn't, so they kept going down, and things are pretty dire right now. Expect a whole lot of empty seats in the coming season.
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Correct... The more you win, the more exciting a team is, the more tickets get sold. Even if a team loses, but can still produce an entertaining and competitive team, I would argue ticket sales would still be good. However; it's hard for people to spend hard earned money on a lame duck product, a bad coach and a team that is about as boring as watching paint dry.
 
Tampa Jacket said:
Stansbury is not an idiot. Stansbury graduated from Georgia Tech. Idiots do not graduate from Georgia Tech.
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