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AlabamaBuzz said:
I stated recruiting rankings were never going to be that great, but CGC isn’t going to win, so I’m not sure your point. I don’t care if players like a coach, but they better respect the HC. It ain’t about being liked or being friends.
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PJ wasn't getting top-30 classes (I agree with you) and the last 2 years, wasn't doing that great with mid 50s-rated classes, which appears to be your point: That he didn't need top-30 classes to win.
 
Tampa Jacket said:
He’s undisputedly one of the most successful coaches at GT. It was a neat trick and a good idea before all the defenses had figured out how to defend it.
But once they did, the strategic advantage and element of surprise was gone and it was our players vs. “Their players”, there was no contest. “Their players” were consistently bigger, stronger and faster because not enough good players wanted any part of the 3/0. That fact was proven every single February, over and over.
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I hope the T/O was the main problem and it is not because not enough good players want to play ACC football in the ATL. I've been a Tech fan for decades now and I don't remember GT ever recruiting 2 top 25 classes in a row regardless of the coach or the offense we ran.
 
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RamblinWreck92 said:
Tangentially moronic. That's you. Your tangent above - that service academies actually recruit players - is being debated by no one but yourself. So you're not a troll, you just completely lack reading comp. skills.

Service academies also attract certain players who flat-out want to play there over anywhere else. They also can't have players of certain height and weight, eliminating large #s of possible recruits. Finally, the expectations of fans at all service academies aren't remotely the same as fan bases in P5 conferences. Monken will feel no heat from losing to one of the Navy teams since PJ left 'em. All these combine to make Recruiting to service academies not nearly as difficult as your pathetic attempts to portray otherwise.

Why is this so difficult for you to grasp? Oh, right - you're a tangential moron.
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Then can you interpret this for me:

Tampa Jacket said:
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Monken doesn't have to recruit at Army. And neither Army or Monken would win 5 games even in a weak conference like the ACC.

There are coaches that can win more games than Collins at GT. But Monken is not one of them. His recruiting classes would look a lot like Army, which can’t win in P5.
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RamblinWreck92 said:
He actually said service academies " don't have to recruit ". Big difference.

And he's 100% correct.

Also, in addition to service academies basically recruiting themselves, there are also plenty of P5 athletes who, due to military size restrictions, cannot play for a service academy and thus a coach doesn't have to waste time recruiting them.

In short, Monken's recruiting is easier now than it would be at a P5 school, which until last night, he hadn't defeated since 2017.
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Because it sounds an awful lot like Monken doesn't have to recuit, which is false; and service academies basically recuit themselves, which is also false. The whole premise is moronic.

It is like the dolt that says Saban doesn't have to recruit because players just grow up wanting to play for Alabama. There is an ounce of truth there I guess; but Saban would dismiss you as a moron if you completely believed that.
 
service academies do recruit themselves, to a large degree. Disagreement with that is moronic. Tangentially so, in your case.
Guys like Monken and Ken N. aren't out on the road recruiting nearly to the degree that they'd need to be at a P5 school. Disagreement with that is also moronic.
 
RamblinWreck92 said:
PJ wasn't getting top-30 classes (I agree with you) and the last 2 years, wasn't doing that great with mid 50s-rated classes, which appears to be your point: That he didn't need top-30 classes to win.
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My point is PJ was a real HC with proven results, and if he got the right players for his system, we had a chance against basically anyone, no matter the rankings. But, it is true that when he did not have the right guys, it could look ugly, but not any uglier than the last 2 games looked.

The powers that be were not going to increase his recruiting budget or spend xtra $$ while he was still coach. Heck, they wish he had not won the 2014 OB so that they could have gotten rid of him sooner. But, these are the same guys that brought us CGC, so there you go. And, they did spend extra after CGC arrived, and it has gotten us what? 9 wins with a clown coach.

But, I understand that the pain of watching the 3O was worse. (sarcasm)
 
AlabamaBuzz said:
My point is PJ was a real HC with proven results, and if he got the right players for his system, we had a chance against basically anyone, no matter the rankings. But, it is true that when he did not have the right guys, it could look ugly, but not any uglier than the last 2 games looked.

The powers that be were not going to increase his recruiting budget or spend xtra $$ while he was still coach. Heck, they wish he had not won the 2014 OB so that they could have gotten rid of him sooner. But, these are the same guys that brought us CGC, so there you go. And, they did spend extra after CGC arrived, and it has gotten us what? 9 wins with a clown coach.

But, I understand that the pain of watching the 3O was worse. (sarcasm)
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I don't disagree that the "C" in CGC stands for Clown. But there will be a better-stocked cupboard for the next guy when we boot the 3-ring circus out of town than the one Bozo inherited. PJ was a real HC except when it came to recruiting, which wasn't a strongpoint no matter how much $$ was spent.
 
RamblinWreck92 said:
service academies do recruit themselves, to a large degree. Disagreement with that is moronic. Tangentially so, in your case.
Guys like Monken and Ken N. aren't out on the road recruiting nearly to the degree that they'd need to be at a P5 school. Disagreement with that is also moronic.
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So do you think Monken recruited while he was at Georgia Southern and quit or got laid back towards recruiting once he got to West Point? I am curious what the thought is here since Bobby Ross created the recruiting party bus when he got to West Point. Bobby Ross apparently thought the recruiting at West Point needed to be ramped up when he got there. (serious question, not trying to be argumentative) I get the impression that you and Tampa think recruiting at the academies is really laid back and the coaches just wait and see what shows up. Obviously they don't go after players that are looking for a NFL career.
 
RamblinWreck92 said:
I don't disagree that the "C" in CGC stands for Clown. But there will be a better-stocked cupboard for the next guy when we boot the 3-ring circus out of town than the one Bozo inherited. PJ was a real HC except when it came to recruiting, which wasn't a strongpoint no matter how much $$ was spent.
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OK, sounds like we agree on clown and PJ struggled to recruit to his system. We will keep it there.

My real point if you read my other posts is that the Institute has to do things differently than the factories if we want success like 2014 to ever happen again. It does not have to be 3O, but it better be something different than the factories.
 
AlabamaBuzz said:
My point is PJ was a real HC with proven results, and if he got the right players for his system, we had a chance against basically anyone, no matter the rankings. But, it is true that when he did not have the right guys, it could look ugly, but not any uglier than the last 2 games looked.

The powers that be were not going to increase his recruiting budget or spend xtra $$ while he was still coach. Heck, they wish he had not won the 2014 OB so that they could have gotten rid of him sooner. But, these are the same guys that brought us CGC, so there you go. And, they did spend extra after CGC arrived, and it has gotten us what? 9 wins with a clown coach.

But, I understand that the pain of watching the 3O was worse. (sarcasm)
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Where you are wrong is that they didn't spend more when CGC got here. That only started with the latest hires. For the first 3 years, we were trying to get by with the same bargain basement type staff we had before. CPJ covered up just how bad it had gotten in that regard for a long time, but it was catching up to him, even.
 
aeromech said:
So do you think Monken recruited while he was at Georgia Southern and quit or got laid back towards recruiting once he got to West Point? I am curious what the thought is here since Bobby Ross created the recruiting party bus when he got to West Point. Bobby Ross apparently thought the recruiting at West Point needed to be ramped up when he got there. (serious question, not trying to be argumentative) I get the impression that you and Tampa think recruiting at the academies is really laid back and the coaches just wait and see what shows up. Obviously they don't go after players that are looking for a NFL career.
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To your point, they travel countrywide to find great athletes who are wanting something different and a chance to make a difference for the country. They will sign undersized guys with talent, hoping they can build them into something special. But, oh yeah, they have to recruit, no doubt. They are just fighting for lesser quality guys when it comes to "rankings". You put the "want to" from an Academy player into a 4/5 star guy, you would have the next Lawrence Taylor.
 
smokey_wasp said:
Where you are wrong is that they didn't spend more when CGC got here. That only started with the latest hires. For the first 3 years, we were trying to get by with the same bargain basement type staff we had before. CPJ covered up just how bad it had gotten in that regard for a long time, but it was catching up to him, even.
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I am pretty sure we upped the recruiting staff with Morpheus and few others; but I will let others fill in those blanks. You are probably right as far as pure coaching staff goes.
 
smokey_wasp said:
Where you are wrong is that they didn't spend more when CGC got here. That only started with the latest hires. For the first 3 years, we were trying to get by with the same bargain basement type staff we had before. CPJ covered up just how bad it had gotten in that regard for a long time, but it was catching up to him, even.
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Not really talkiing about football coaching pay, but ok. I am talking about other things (like rental helicopters, etc.), other things that help recruiting, travel money, etc. But, if I am not mistaken, I do believe CGC got a few extra positions related to marketing/etc. that PJ did not have, but maybe PJ never asked for these things. I do know from people who are supposed to know that he did ask for things to assist with improving the program, and he did not get them, especially under the former AD.
 
aeromech said:
So do you think Monken recruited while he was at Georgia Southern and quit or got laid back towards recruiting once he got to West Point? I am curious what the thought is here since Bobby Ross created the recruiting party bus when he got to West Point. Bobby Ross apparently thought the recruiting at West Point needed to be ramped up when he got there. (serious question, not trying to be argumentative) I get the impression that you and Tampa think recruiting at the academies is really laid back and the coaches just wait and see what shows up. Obviously they don't go after players that are looking for a NFL career.
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I get the impression that you think Monken & Ken N are beating the pavement and knocking down doors 24/7/365, begging HS kids to please come and play at a US military academy.

Right, obviously they don't chase NFL-career guys. Nor is their fanbase rabid. and some kids simply want to go to a service academy regardless.

Which makes service academy recruiting easier than at a P5 school. Which is literally the only point I'm trying to make and that you continue to tangentially dodge.
 
AlabamaBuzz said:
Not really talkiing about football coaching pay, but ok. I am talking about other things (like rental helicopters, etc.), other things that help recruiting, travel money, etc. But, if I am not mistaken, I do believe CGC got a few extra positions related to marketing/etc. that PJ did not have, but maybe PJ never asked for these things. I do know from people who are supposed to know that he did ask for things to assist with improving the program, and he did not get them, especially under the former AD.
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There is some truth there. The stuff CPJ didn't get until TStan got there was stuff like a new locker room. Pretty sure he could have rented a helicopter like Collins if he really wanted to. The one big thing Collins got was Suddes.
 
AlabamaBuzz said:
OK, sounds like we agree on clown and PJ struggled to recruit to his system. We will keep it there.

My real point if you read my other posts is that the Institute has to do things differently than the factories if we want success like 2014 to ever happen again. It does not have to be 3O, but it better be something different than the factories.
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Given how bad the ACC is, I think we need only a good, competent team with good, competent coaching to repeat 2014. Not sure how close we are team-wise but we both agree we're a long way from there re:coaching. But the ACC sux and it wouldn't be that mind-boggling to beat up on most of it again, even without a specialized scheme like the TO.

I'd like a season where we start out ranked and improve on that, leading up to a big game, Gameday in ATL, etc. compared to 2014, where we lost twice early and the buzz didn't really get there until later in the season. Your point is taken though.
 
RamblinWreck92 said:
Given how bad the ACC is, I think we need only a good, competent team with good, competent coaching to repeat 2014. Not sure how close we are team-wise but we both agree we're a long way from there re:coaching. But the ACC sux and it wouldn't be that mind-boggling to beat up on most of it again, even without a specialized scheme like the TO.

I'd like a season where we start out ranked and improve on that, leading up to a big game, Gameday in ATL, etc. compared to 2014, where we lost twice early and the buzz didn't really get there until later in the season. Your point is taken though.
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I agree with this "mostly", but we are not going to beat teams like UGAG (which we did in 2014) doing it like the factories. I am not happy just competing in the ACC - I want some special years as well. And, in my mind, the Institute must do it differently than the factories.
 
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