Enough with the Deon

QuadF said:
What's moronic is rolling the dice on someone unproven with the primary argument being "it can't get worse."



Absolutely we have more room. Why do you think we fired Collins now?
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Define proven, because winning a bunch in group of 5 isn't a guarantee, either. Plenty of examples.
 
cincytechie said:
Who was more unproven? The Clown or Neon?

This is rock bottom of Tech Football. Losing 100-0. Losing 42-0 and the other coach easing up on you because of how embarrassing it is.
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The clown was more proven. Lets pretend that Neon being less proven is a good thing.

BarrelORum said:
He isn't unproven. He's proved to bring in 5 star players into an HBCU school you never heard of until he coached there. He's proven to get a spot on Aflac commercials opposite Nick Saban, because of it... But keep on making a case that CAN'T BE MADE. You have no vision.
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Says the guy who described Calvin as mediocre...
 
QuadF said:
The clown was more proven. Lets pretend that Neon being less proven is a good thing.



Says the guy who described Calvin as mediocre...
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Looks like someone lost the argument.

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QuadF said:
Don't overthink the analogy it's still before noon. :) I'm just pointing out that his argument of "yeah he's high risk, but lets ignore the floor" is stupid. I think the assessment of Deion being high-risk, high-reward is accurate and the primary debate is whether he's worth the risk. I don't buy into BoR's notion that ignoring the risk or ignoring the floor means it doesn't exist.
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At no point have I made that argument.
 
QuadF said:
The clown was more proven. Lets pretend that Neon being less proven is a good thing.



Says the guy who described Calvin as mediocre...
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proven in what? He had less head coaching experience with much worse results after taking over from a 10 win predecessor. Did he recruit any 5 stars to an FCS team? Or did he just do 1-2 year stints at SEC schools loaded with talent?
 
We have to take a risk to change the direction the program is going. Because without taking any risk we’re still going to the same destination. We hire one of these spread option guys, and maybe in year 3 they get us to a bowl game or maybe they don’t and I honestly don’t think we have that much time. We need to roll the dice here.
 
QuadF said:
Don't overthink the analogy it's still before noon. :) I'm just pointing out that his argument of "yeah he's high risk, but lets ignore the floor" is stupid. I think the assessment of Deion being high-risk, high-reward is accurate and the primary debate is whether he's worth the risk. I don't buy into BoR's notion that ignoring the risk or ignoring the floor means it doesn't exist.
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OK, we are at least both talking from a reality based perspective and not some emotional blinders.

I agree with BOR's assessment that we are so far down that there is basically no lower we can go, but I can acknowledge that it is possible to believe that we could go lower. OK?

So what could be lower than historic losing? I think we were Citadel's first and only D1 win. We just set a all time national record for point spread of a G5 over a P5. We have broken MANY all time (>100 year) margins of losing versus various teams. To argue "Deion could do worse" from that baseline, you gotta admit that there might be something to the belief that no, it is not a legitimate risk that we could do worse.
 
BarrelORum said:
The potential ceiling of a Deion Sanders hire needs to be explored, and if you don't at least look into it and interview the man to see if its possible, then you aren't doing your ööööing job.
You can't name a coach with a higher ceiling than Deion. You can't. Forget the floor for a second, imagine the ceiling. Really imagine it!

Recruiting could be something the likes we've only dreamed about. There is not ONE kid who is a 4 or 5 star player that would NOT seriously entertain Deion Sanders in their living room pitching playing in the ATL for Georgia Tech. Not one!

Deion coming back to the ATL would be SOOO huge in the community that the amount of support this would get to bring in sidewalk fans, supporters, alumni, $$$$$$ etc. would be ridiculous.

People already invested in the program but sitting on the sidelines waiting for the GTAA to actually do something worth a öööö would drop BOMBS of checks of support to the athletic program. I know I will. Not to mention the possibility of NIL deals.

All you ööööing engineers with blinders on, take them off for a second and try to wear a marketing hat for two seconds on this (Yeah, I know its asking a lot). Imagine the Ceiling for GT under Deion Sanders... its absolutely ridiculous and if we don't at least look into it, then we're led by people who imagine a cap on our success. No one has the same ceiling, that's a fact.

For those worried about his coaching. He took over a losing program, went 4-3 in Covid year, and since has gone 15-2 losing to two ranked opponents. He's going to attract coaches here. Even if we got Deion for 3-4 years, he has the potential to put us in a place the likes of which we've never seen. Excuse me if I fantasize over that as opposed to getting behind the same old same old GT bullshit that has run our brand down for the last 15 years.
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GT has to show our fans and future coach that we are committed to winning. Hiring DS and committing the millions needed for him and his coaching staff would be a big step in that direction.
 
GTCrew said:
OK, we are at least both talking from a reality based perspective and not some emotional blinders.

I agree with BOR's assessment that we are so far down that there is basically no lower we can go, but I can acknowledge that it is possible to believe that we could go lower. OK?

So what could be lower than historic losing? I think we were Citadel's first and only D1 win. We just set a all time national record for point spread of a G5 over a P5. We have broken MANY all time (>100 year) margins of losing versus various teams. To argue "Deion could do worse" from that baseline, you gotta admit that there might be something to the belief that no, it is not a legitimate risk that we could do worse.
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Exactly, there is NO legitimate risk of doing worse. Fan engagement with Georgia Tech football is at an ALL TIME LOW. Let that sink in. ALL TIME LOW.
 
GTCrew said:
OK, we are at least both talking from a reality based perspective and not some emotional blinders.

I agree with BOR's assessment that we are so far down that there is basically no lower we can go, but I can acknowledge that it is possible to believe that we could go lower. OK?

So what could be lower than historic losing? I think we were Citadel's first and only D1 win. We set a record for point spread of a G5 over a P5. We have broken MANY all time (>100 year) margins of losing versus various teams. To argue "Deion could do worse" from that baseline, you gotta admit that there might be something to the belief that no, it is not a legitimate risk that we could do worse.
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He can’t do worse. We are on the floor as far as team performance. I don’t see any difference between going 1-11 and 3-9. The question is do we want to take a chance to possibly lift ourself to national prominence again or do we want to hire someone to maybe make a bowl game in a few years. That’s the question.
 
GTCrew said:
I personally agree and a huge part of the reason we need Deion is because fan attendance, morale, and interest is in the toilet. If that was not the case, and we were getting rid of a Chan Gailey 6-7 win guy, then there would be a lot of risk in hiring such an unproven guy who could crater the program and lose the fanbase. WE HAVE ALREADY DONE THAT. The main risk in hiring a small track record coach that could be smoke and mirrors does not exist for us.

But I was trying to win over skeptics by acknowledging their concerns as legitimate, at least the best I could fake it.

The only risk, and this is stretching the definition, is related to Chadwell being such an ideal candidate himself and you will lose him to take the Deion experiment. Its an opportunity cost risk.
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Deion will start with high juice, but winning is ultimately what makes the juice. If he can't win, his hype will burn out faster than Collins'. I think he will have 2 years before he risks being labelled as Collins part 2. If that happens, that means we'd have an entire generation of Tech fans who think we're just the wake forest of FBS (back when wake was a 1-win team.) As we're dealing with waning student involvement already, that's a massive problem even if it takes some time to be fully realized.

In the age of the NIL and portal, we can lose our talent a lot faster than previous years. If they all transfer because we still can't manage to at least go bowling we'd be in a worse position than now. How many of y'all said we had a more full cupboard than 3 years ago? Hopefully Deion would recruit better, but I think that the institutional factors are more important than the face of the coach. If we don't make it easier to get past the hill, become top 25% in the ACC in recruiting budget, and expand our analysts it won't matter who is at the helm. But ultimately he has to win and there's not enough to demonstrate that his 1 good year was repeatable.

Remember when the juice crew was talking about how Collins could recruit top 25 every year because he landed an awesome class here once? How many killer recruiting classes did we pull in with him as HC? This seems like the same roll of the dice over someone with even less proof that they can repeat their success. I'll own being super skeptical, but I think it's pretty well justified.
 
QuadF said:
Deion will start with high juice, but winning is ultimately what makes the juice. If he can't win, his hype will burn out faster than Collins'. I think he will have 2 years before he risks being labelled as Collins part 2. If that happens, that means we'd have an entire generation of Tech fans who think we're just the wake forest of FBS (back when wake was a 1-win team.) As we're dealing with waning student involvement already, that's a massive problem even if it takes some time to be fully realized.

In the age of the NIL and portal, we can lose our talent a lot faster than previous years. If they all transfer because we still can't manage to at least go bowling we'd be in a worse position than now. How many of y'all said we had a more full cupboard than 3 years ago? Hopefully Deion would recruit better, but I think that the institutional factors are more important than the face of the coach. If we don't make it easier to get past the hill, become top 25% in the ACC in recruiting budget, and expand our analysts it won't matter who is at the helm. But ultimately he has to win and there's not enough to demonstrate that his 1 good year was repeatable.

Remember when the juice crew was talking about how Collins could recruit top 25 every year because he landed an awesome class here once? How many killer recruiting classes did we pull in with him as HC? This seems like the same roll of the dice over someone with even less proof that they can repeat their success. I'll own being super skeptical, but I think it's pretty well justified.
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NIL and transfer portal are exactly the reasons why Deion is the right hire. Think about it. Collins was a nobody before he came to Tech and he’s leaving as a nobody. Deion Sanders is an Atlanta legend who just had two great seasons and recruited top talent to a school that offers less than ours.
 
QuadF said:
I know it's bad form to argue with trolls and retards but it's at least mildly amusing and low effort.
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You're picking out small pieces. I'm an alumnus who actually believes Georgia Tech is a sleeping giant or could be. I can believe in big vision. You can't. Keep punching that clock brother!
 
BarrelORum said:
The potential ceiling of a Deion Sanders hire needs to be explored, and if you don't at least look into it and interview the man to see if its possible, then you aren't doing your ööööing job.
You can't name a coach with a higher ceiling than Deion. You can't. Forget the floor for a second, imagine the ceiling. Really imagine it!

Recruiting could be something the likes we've only dreamed about. There is not ONE kid who is a 4 or 5 star player that would NOT seriously entertain Deion Sanders in their living room pitching playing in the ATL for Georgia Tech. Not one!

Deion coming back to the ATL would be SOOO huge in the community that the amount of support this would get to bring in sidewalk fans, supporters, alumni, $$$$$$ etc. would be ridiculous.

People already invested in the program but sitting on the sidelines waiting for the GTAA to actually do something worth a öööö would drop BOMBS of checks of support to the athletic program. I know I will. Not to mention the possibility of NIL deals.

All you ööööing engineers with blinders on, take them off for a second and try to wear a marketing hat for two seconds on this (Yeah, I know its asking a lot). Imagine the Ceiling for GT under Deion Sanders... its absolutely ridiculous and if we don't at least look into it, then we're led by people who imagine a cap on our success. No one has the same ceiling, that's a fact.

For those worried about his coaching. He took over a losing program, went 4-3 in Covid year, and since has gone 15-2 losing to two ranked opponents. He's going to attract coaches here. Even if we got Deion for 3-4 years, he has the potential to put us in a place the likes of which we've never seen. Excuse me if I fantasize over that as opposed to getting behind the same old same old GT bullshit that has run our brand down for the last 15 years.
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I don’t think it’s the engineers who are opposed to Deion. It’s older fans who never liked him in the pros. The fit would be perfect. And there is almost no risk.
 
Akinji07 said:
proven in what? He had less head coaching experience with much worse results after taking over from a 10 win predecessor. Did he recruit any 5 stars to an FCS team? Or did he just do 1-2 year stints at SEC schools loaded with talent?
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Collins was head coach for more than 2 years. He actually coached against really good coaches, not those who are only in FCS. He couldn't just outspend on analysts and support staff to whip others. He couldn't always rely on a talent advantage to win games.

I'm not denying that Deion has kicked some butt recruiting in his VERY short time as HC, but it's entirely presumptive to assume it's sustainable or repeatable at this point.
 
QuadF said:
Deion will start with high juice, but winning is ultimately what makes the juice. If he can't win, his hype will burn out faster than Collins'. I think he will have 2 years before he risks being labelled as Collins part 2. If that happens, that means we'd have an entire generation of Tech fans who think we're just the wake forest of FBS (back when wake was a 1-win team.) As we're dealing with waning student involvement already, that's a massive problem even if it takes some time to be fully realized.

In the age of the NIL and portal, we can lose our talent a lot faster than previous years. If they all transfer because we still can't manage to at least go bowling we'd be in a worse position than now. How many of y'all said we had a more full cupboard than 3 years ago? Hopefully Deion would recruit better, but I think that the institutional factors are more important than the face of the coach. If we don't make it easier to get past the hill, become top 25% in the ACC in recruiting budget, and expand our analysts it won't matter who is at the helm. But ultimately he has to win and there's not enough to demonstrate that his 1 good year was repeatable.

Remember when the juice crew was talking about how Collins could recruit top 25 every year because he landed an awesome class here once? How many killer recruiting classes did we pull in with him as HC? This seems like the same roll of the dice over someone with even less proof that they can repeat their success. I'll own being super skeptical, but I think it's pretty well justified.
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Listen, I totally can understand being so burned out on Collins' bullshit you would be worried about a repeat. But I just cannot see how that is possible given what Deion Sanders has done at Jackson State and the instant credibility he is going to bring on the recruiting trail. You can't dismiss the little coaching experience he does have. He's made the most out of it.
 
BarrelORum said:
You're picking out small pieces. I'm an alumnus who actually believes Georgia Tech is a sleeping giant or could be. I can believe in big vision. You can't. Keep punching that clock brother!
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Lol. Keep repeating the "it's so obviously correct i can't explain it" line. It gets more amusing every time. :)
 
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