Enough with the Deon

QuadF said:
Lol. Keep repeating the "it's so obviously correct i can't explain it" line. It gets more amusing every time. :)
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Lunch break is over!
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QuadF said:
Collins was head coach for more than 2 years. He actually coached against really good coaches, not those who are only in FCS. He couldn't just outspend on analysts and support staff to whip others. He couldn't always rely on a talent advantage to win games.

I'm not denying that Deion has kicked some butt recruiting in his VERY short time as HC, but it's entirely presumptive to assume it's sustainable or repeatable at this point.
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You think Collins problem was not being able to outspend on analysts and support staff? The guy had more financial support than his predecessor. They were flying him around in a Waffle House helicopter because we thought he could recruit. He took over a 10 win team and made them 7 wins before we hired him and took us from 7 wins to 3. Sanders took over a 4 win team and turned them into a 10 win team while recruiting players, Collins never recruited, to a lesser team. You’re evaluated based on your performance against competition. Any of the other candidates that have HC experience I see here also coach against lesser competition than ours. So the FCS argument is what exactly?
 
QuadF said:
Deion will start with high juice, but winning is ultimately what makes the juice. If he can't win, his hype will burn out faster than Collins'. I think he will have 2 years before he risks being labelled as Collins part 2. If that happens, that means we'd have an entire generation of Tech fans who think we're just the wake forest of FBS (back when wake was a 1-win team.) As we're dealing with waning student involvement already, that's a massive problem even if it takes some time to be fully realized.
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OK. But we need to talk about this a lot more and I want to address your other points first.

In the age of the NIL and portal, we can lose our talent a lot faster than previous years. If they all transfer because we still can't manage to at least go bowling we'd be in a worse position than now.
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This argument is simply irrelevant. Everyone can lose talent immediately now but everyone can gain talent immediately now. There is zero reason to factor in worrying about the current players which I admit is ööööing bizzare considering that has been a major concern for our entire lifetimes and another lifetime before that. The paradigm shift on this is as big as one can get.

How many of y'all said we had a more full cupboard than 3 years ago? Hopefully Deion would recruit better, but I think that the institutional factors are more important than the face of the coach. If we don't make it easier to get past the hill, become top 25% in the ACC in recruiting budget, and expand our analysts it won't matter who is at the helm. But ultimately he has to win and there's not enough to demonstrate that his 1 good year was repeatable.

Remember when the juice crew was talking about how Collins could recruit top 25 every year because he landed an awesome class here once? How many killer recruiting classes did we pull in with him as HC? This seems like the same roll of the dice over someone with even less proof that they can repeat their success. I'll own being super skeptical, but I think it's pretty well justified.
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There are some factual problems here. Deion has one and a third great (not good) years. He has one abbreviated good year (4-3 covid).

Also, you express some legitimate concerns I have highlighted, but (a) Cabrera said he will improve those, so lets be optimistic there and (b) they really are not specific to Deion and will be relevant to any coach although granted with a chadwell type scheme that is less of an issue for [the offensive] half of the team.
 
BarrelORum said:
Listen, I totally can understand being so burned out on Collins' bullshit you would be worried about a repeat. But I just cannot see how that is possible given what Deion Sanders has done at Jackson State and the instant credibility he is going to bring on the recruiting trail. You can't dismiss the little coaching experience he does have. He's made the most out of it.
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I've given him all of the credit that I can for making the most of his time there. How many coaches have had that kind of success at the FBS level that flamed out on their next stop?

Chip kelley captured lighting in a bottle at Oregon but how did he fare at UCLA?
Scott Frost had a very similar trajectory at UCF. How did that work out at Nebraska?

So why should we trust that it's more repeatable when it's done at a much lower level against easier competition?
 
The more I think about it, Prime might actually be the least risk of all of the coaches we could land with the possible exception of Rhule. He would have the highest floor.

Any of the assistants or lower tier head coaches we would look at will never have to work again the second they sign that contract with us. That has a variety of effects on people, and who knows how that idea would affect our next hire or how he might react to adversity once it hits. Its also a different level of competition and stress moving up levels, and no one can be sure how anyone might react to that. We've seen countless cant miss X's and O's guys from smaller schools move up and fail, also have seen successful P5 guys move to the NFL and fail. For every Clawson how many Fuente's, Hermans, Harsins, Collins, Satterfields, RichRods, Gills, Frists, Frosts, etc. are there.

With Prime we don't have to worry about the money changing him, he already has it, and if he wanted he could make as much or more just doing the NFL Network and endorsements. We would also be certain that for atleast the next 2-3 years while his kids are there hes going to give it everything he's got.

We know Prime cant take us lower than Collins, and while I believe Cignetti or Chadwell or Monken would have better results than Collins I dont know for sure that they wouldnt flame out even worse.
 
QuadF said:
I've given him all of the credit that I can for making the most of his time there. How many coaches have had that kind of success at the FBS level that flamed out on their next stop?

Chip kelley captured lighting in a bottle at Oregon but how did he fare at UCLA?
Scott Frost had a very similar trajectory at UCF. How did that work out at Nebraska?

So why should we trust that it's more repeatable when it's done at a much lower level against easier competition?
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Because neither of those two were the largest in life Pro Athlete EVER TO PLAY in the City where they coached. Neither of those guys are getting a seat at the kitchen table of every 4-5 star recruit in the country because of who they are. Neither of those guys are creating SIGNIFICANT buzz and bringing in otherwise non-fans of a school simply because of WHO THEY ARE! Neither of those guys are getting College Game Day to give them SIGNIFICANT attention under any random week.

Listen, lets be clear here. You can't compare Deion Sanders to any other coach out there fairly. It can't be done. Which makes it so interesting to examine. And that's all that I've been saying is this needs to be examined very closely. The floor to me is better than where we are now, and the ceiling is so ööööing high I can't see it. There's not another coach who brings that situation with him.

Honestly, if you are that short sighted to write it off so fast, then öööö you! You demand peanuts, you get peanuts. Occasionally you see things line up in a way where there is an opportunity to shoot for the moon. This is one of those potential situations. If you don't at least try to see it, then you don't need to be leading.
 
QuadF said:
I've given him all of the credit that I can for making the most of his time there. How many coaches have had that kind of success at the FBS level that flamed out on their next stop?

Chip kelley captured lighting in a bottle at Oregon but how did he fare at UCLA?
Scott Frost had a very similar trajectory at UCF. How did that work out at Nebraska?

So why should we trust that it's more repeatable when it's done at a much lower level against easier competition?
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This is a straw man, you do realize that, right? We can't hire a coach with a good W/L record at the P5 level. Statements like that deserve a "Oh yeah, you are right. We better hire Nick Saban."
 
Akinji07 said:
You think Collins problem was not being able to outspend on analysts and support staff? The guy had more financial support than his predecessor. They were flying him around in a Waffle House helicopter because we thought he could recruit. He took over a 10 win team and made them 7 wins before we hired him and took us from 7 wins to 3. Sanders took over a 4 win team and turned them into a 10 win team while recruiting players, Collins never recruited, to a lesser team. You’re evaluated based on your performance against competition. Any of the other candidates that have HC experience I see here also coach against lesser competition than ours. So the FCS argument is what exactly?
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I don't think his main problem was a lack of spending, but he wasn't topping out even the ACC either. He got us back into middle of the pack in spending IIRC. I'm saying that spending on staff & recruiting does matter a lot. Do you think it's a coincidence that Alabama is outspending everyone and has the best results? Do you think it's a coincidence that Deion was the only one with analysts in FCS last year and had a massive jump in improvement? Look at the quotes from his team.

I'd like to see coaches that can punch above their weight. If Deion is replicating the spending and strategies of larger schools (fbs) to beat up on fcs opponents it's good strategy for him but he's only moving into parity if he comes up to FBS; it's not a special strategy anymore. He seems to be punching above his weight for recruiting, but he's also operating on very different margins. If we miss on a 4*, it matters a lot. If he misses, the kid is still an all-star at the FCS level. Even a team of only 3*s should be crushing any FCS competition. Like I said in my other posts, there's just too little information for me to be on board yet. If he had a few more years at Jax or a second stop at a school where he demonstrated an improvement this would be a very different conversation.
 
GTCrew said:
This is a straw man, you do realize that, right? We can't hire a coach with a good W/L record at the P5 level. Statements like that get the "Oh yeah, you are right. We better hire Nick Saban."
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Did I say that we had to only hire from p5? But even if that was the case, with all of the talk about how much money the school is going to give Deion to finally stop hiring cheap coordinators why is money now suddenly an issue for a different head coach?
 
QuadF said:
Lol. Keep repeating the "it's so obviously correct i can't explain it" line. It gets more amusing every time. :)
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Tell me why you think Sanders could not recruit or coach ? He would be a great recruiter as I neloeve he would become a lightning rod in the black community with high hopes of him doing well at a big school. A two sport star in a town often referred to as a "black Mecca" he would have a wide appeal & bring more people to the GT fanbase. Coaching football ain't rocket science as a lot of people at different levels do it really well. Right now the program has bottomed out but Sanders ( or Chadwell) can resurrect this program, not a doubt in my 74 year old mind.
 
What GTAA needs more than anything else right now is buzz and money. Deion is the only coaching candidate who brings both. If be flames out there will still be positive momentum on both fronts because he’ll be such a fan supported hire/risk.

this isn’t Pickett’s Charge risk. It’s more like March on Princeton after Trenton risk. We know the territory. We know the commodity. We know what we need in both the short and long term.
 
QuadF said:
Did I say that we had to only hire from p5? But even if that was the case, with all of the talk about how much money the school is going to give Deion to finally stop hiring cheap coordinators why is money now suddenly an issue for a different head coach?
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You do understand that there are a TON of alumni who have withdrawn their support of the school because of the one foot out the door attitude of our athletics department right? Deion is literally the ONLY hire, no one is taking a "wait and see" approach. People will come out of the woodwork donating to the GTAA because hiring him sends a message. I know I would and while I'm by no means a large donor, I'm not a small one either.
 
BarrelORum said:
Because neither of those two were the largest in life Pro Athlete EVER TO PLAY in the City where they coached. Neither of those guys are getting a seat at the kitchen table of every 4-5 star recruit in the country because of who they are. Neither of those guys are creating SIGNIFICANT buzz and bringing in otherwise non-fans of a school simply because of WHO THEY ARE! Neither of those guys are getting College Game Day to give them SIGNIFICANT attention under any random week.

Listen, lets be clear here. You can't compare Deion Sanders to any other coach out there fairly. It can't be done. Which makes it so interesting to examine. And that's all that I've been saying is this needs to be examined very closely. The floor to me is better than where we are now, and the ceiling is so ööööing high I can't see it. There's not another coach who brings that situation with him.

Honestly, if you are that short sighted to write it off so fast, then öööö you! You demand peanuts, you get peanuts. Occasionally you see things line up in a way where there is an opportunity to shoot for the moon. This is one of those potential situations. If you don't at least try to see it, then you don't need to be leading.
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More cult of personality and a tantrum because we don't agree. How mature. Have fun with the trolling & retart arguments.

To be clear, arguing for a hail-mary is fine. Pooing the solid alternatives means you're just reckless.
 
QuadF said:
More cult of personality and a tantrum because we don't agree. How mature. Have fun with the trolling & retart arguments.

To be clear, arguing for a hail-mary is fine. Pooing the solid alternatives means you're just reckless.
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Lets be clear, that's not the argument you made. You made the argument that Deion is silly and retarded to hire. That opinion is not retarded. A retard isn't that stupid.
 
QuadF said:
More cult of personality and a tantrum because we don't agree. How mature. Have fun with the trolling & retart arguments.

To be clear, arguing for a hail-mary is fine. Pooing the solid alternatives means you're just reckless.
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The other alternatives are fine. Deion opens way more doors for us. FWIW I wouldn’t be making the same argument if I were say a Duke alum or something similar. Being in Atlanta with Deion matters.
 
QuadF said:
The clown was more proven. Lets pretend that Neon being less proven is a good thing.

Says the guy who described Calvin as mediocre...
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The Clown was not more proven. He road the coattails of Rhule and had two mediocre seasons in a watered down conference. Explain how that is more proven than Prime.

Which coach has ever coached a ranked team? In The Clown's best season at Temple, he lost to an FCS school.
 
QuadF said:
More cult of personality and a tantrum because we don't agree. How mature. Have fun with the trolling & retart arguments.

To be clear, arguing for a hail-mary is fine. Pooing the solid alternatives means you're just reckless.
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You're inventing things that do not exist, no one is pooing solid alternatives like Chadwell, just stating a preference, you are the one pooing a solid alternative.
 
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