Expansion Rumors…

MatatoGT said:
It's a bad contract now in retrospect. It was a 20-year deal made back in 2016. For that year, the money wasn't bad, but it locked us in to that for 20 years. Inflation alone should have made everyone realize that a 20 year fixed deal was unwise. And now the TV deals have skyrocketed for the other big(ger) leagues. And if you're selling your product for one price, and your competition next door is selling the same thing for double or triple that price, but you're contractually locked in to your lower price for the next 15 years, the only thing you can do is cut quality, cut your overhead, pay your staff less... or try to get out of the contract and get a deal like the one your neighbor has.
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Pretty sure there are look-in years built into that schedule. I have heard that the next one is 2026, which is likely too late to be of consequence.
 
Seems to me that our best chance to keep up is for the ACC to add a couple of good programs and force a renegotiation of the TV contract.

If Notre Dame would get off its self-proclaimed pedestal that alone would do it, but they won't. Adding ND plus Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Washington, and Utah would absolutely do it. That would bring the conference to 20 teams - two divisions of 10 each. The rest of the PAC can either add teams (BYU, Boise, CSU, SDSU, FS, etc) and recreate or join up with the B12. But would those teams do that and leave their former conference mates and in-state counterparts behind? Who knows?

Those teams might divide up into Cal, Stanford, Oregon, Washington, Utah, Notre Dame, Louisville, GA Tech, FSU, and Clemson in a western division, and Miami, WFU, UNC, NCSU, Dook, VPI, UVA, Pitt, Syracuse, and BC in an eastern division. Lots of expensive travel, but at least it's some interesting destinations. The Pacific NW is the most beautiful part of the US, IMPO.
 
Maybe the best thing the ACC could do is tell the NCAA to shove it and get the benefits of being an early mover to a semi-pro league. I bet other markets would get in on it. Seattle, Phoenix, Salt Lake City.

We all know that’s the end game for the SEC and Big 10.
 
donsue said:
That all sounds like good, tough talk, but if it does happen, GT dang sure better have a plan
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First, it wouldn't really bother me at all to jettison the prima donnas and money grubbers and actually get back to college football. Let them play for dough and let's get back to playing for the school. (Geeze, that concept seem so far away now). Second, what "plan" would you suggest? If the PAC, B12, and ACC all fall apart, as is promised here over and over, any and all teams are completely at the whim of the two Overlords of College Football, the SECheat and the B1G. There is no plan, it's just walking up to them with head down and hat in hand. I don't live like that, sorry.

So, I ask the question: If the SECheat and the B1G are in a race over the ledge, why would we want to follow them? Are you convinced there's a rainbow over there?
 
stinger78 said:
First, it wouldn't really bother me at all to jettison the prima donnas and money grubbers and actually get back to college football. Let them play for dough and let's get back to playing for the school. (Geeze, that concept seem so far away now). Second, what "plan" would you suggest? If the PAC, B12, and ACC all fall apart, as is promised here over and over, any and all teams are completely at the whim of the two Overlords of College Football, the SECheat and the B1G. There is no plan, it's just walking up to them with head down and hat in hand. I don't live like that, sorry.

So, I ask the question: If the SECheat and the B1G are in a race over the ledge, why would we want to follow them? Are you convinced there's a rainbow over there?
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I could make a hundred points in response to this. But here is the real truth. Tech has way richer tradition than virtually every ACC school, and well heeled alums and boosters. It really comes down to if the administration wants to make football viable nationally. In the current landscape, there is no “playing for the school” and actually being relevant on a national scale. You are either in or out.
MONEY drives it all now. Bubba’s Variety Store can’t keep up with Walmart. Playing small private schools with 15,000 people in the stands won’t cut it.
If anyone is fine with “the old college try”, then maybe the status quo works.
I don’t pretend to have all the answers, and I don’t speak for anyone else here. I just know what I see. And trying to cobble together a league with irrelevant misfit programs is not going to make waves against the monster leagues.
 
donsue said:
I could make a hundred points in response to this. But here is the real truth. Tech has way richer tradition than virtually every ACC school, and well heeled alums and boosters. It really comes down to if the administration wants to make football viable nationally. In the current landscape, there is no “playing for the school” and actually being relevant on a national scale. You are either in or out.
MONEY drives it all now. Bubba’s Variety Store can’t keep up with Walmart. Playing small private schools with 15,000 people in the stands won’t cut it.
If anyone is fine with “the old college try”, then maybe the status quo works.
I don’t pretend to have all the answers, and I don’t speak for anyone else here. I just know what I see. And trying to cobble together a league with irrelevant misfit programs is not going to make waves against the monster leagues.
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He wants to perpetually play the Dukes, Wakes and Virginias of the world under this righteous indignation of “playing real college football.” Look at his posts which crap on anything that would be an advancement for Tech football and promotes putting in a watered down league of teams no one gives a rats ass about to die a slow death of being underfunded. I’d rather close up the athletic program than play in a lower level of competition. If I want to watch Sunbelt football, Georgia Southern is a hell of a lot closer and cheaper to attend games.
 
donsue said:
I could make a hundred points in response to this. But here is the real truth. Tech has way richer tradition than virtually every ACC school, and well heeled alums and boosters. It really comes down to if the administration wants to make football viable nationally. In the current landscape, there is no “playing for the school” and actually being relevant on a national scale. You are either in or out.
MONEY drives it all now. Bubba’s Variety Store can’t keep up with Walmart. Playing small private schools with 15,000 people in the stands won’t cut it.
If anyone is fine with “the old college try”, then maybe the status quo works.
I don’t pretend to have all the answers, and I don’t speak for anyone else here. I just know what I see. And trying to cobble together a league with irrelevant misfit programs is not going to make waves against the monster leagues.
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Please make a point, you're missing mine.

Why don't the Overlords of College Football take on the NFL? There's more money there. Why stop short?

So, you didn't answer my question: Why follow them over the ledge? Is there a rainbow there with a pot 'o gold? What happens when you get there? It's like asking what happens if the dog ever catches the car. Is he off to chase the next car? Is this the predestined future of college football - to perpetually chase the money? If they stop short of crushing the NFL, they've cashed in on relevance?

There are good answers to all these questions, I think. Those answers will never be found unless there is a commonly agreed definition of "viability," to use your word. I think therein is the secret to happiness and success.
 
savbandjacket said:
He wants to perpetually play the Dukes, Wakes and Virginias of the world under this righteous indignation of “playing real college football.” Look at his posts which crap on anything that would be an advancement for Tech football and promotes putting in a watered down league of teams no one gives a rats ass about to die a slow death of being underfunded. I’d rather close up the athletic program than play in a lower level of competition. If I want to watch Sunbelt football, Georgia Southern is a hell of a lot closer and cheaper to attend games.
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Typical binary thinking. Try thinking more deeply. It will do you good.
 
stinger78 said:
Typical binary thinking. Try thinking more deeply. It will do you good.
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It’s not binary thinking. The appeal of Tech is a world class engineering school that competes at the highest level of college athletics. If it stops competing at the highest level of college athletics, it loses its identity and tradition. I don’t give a öööö about Sunbelt and lower teams when they are on our schedule as cupcake fillers. I’m damned sure not going to waste any time or money on a schedule full of them.
 
savbandjacket said:
They aren’t leaving unless there is a group of enough other schools ready to go at the same time such that there can be a vote to dissolve the conference, thereby ending the GOR. We need to be one of those schools with a prearranged landing spot in B1G or SEC.
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Maybe but I am not sold the GOR is as strong as it is claimed to be. I bet a lawsuit from 2-4 schools kills it altogether or the ACC lowers it to let those schools out. You may see the new conference pay it outright, especially if the money between the ACC and the other conferences continues to widen. A one time check for 10 years of ACC rights is soon becoming chump change from the SEC & BIG.
 
ScionOfSouthland said:
Maybe but I am not sold the GOR is as strong as it is claimed to be. I bet a lawsuit from 2-4 schools kills it altogether or the ACC lowers it to let those schools out. You may see the new conference pay it outright, especially if the money between the ACC and the other conferences continues to widen. A one time check for 10 years of ACC rights is soon becoming chump change from the SEC & BIG.
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As I understand it’s not something that can be written or even “paid.” And it’s separate from the exit fees a school has to pay to exit early. It means that the ACC owns the schools media rights for all home game broadcasts. Theoretically, it makes it where an ACC school in a new conference has to allow the acc the broadcast rights to its new conference home games, thus making an ACC team a nonentity for a broadcast contract in a new conference until the GOR ends. Basically the ACC schools handcuffed themselves to the conference. The only sure way out is to kill the conference itself (which I think is a majority vote).
 
savbandjacket said:
As I understand it’s not something that can be written or even “paid.” And it’s separate from the exit fees a school has to pay to exit early. It means that the ACC owns the schools media rights for all home game broadcasts. Theoretically, it makes it where an ACC school in a new conference has to allow the acc the broadcast rights to its new conference home games, thus making an ACC team a nonentity for a broadcast contract in a new conference until the GOR ends. Basically the ACC schools handcuffed themselves to the conference. The only sure way out is to kill the conference itself (which I think is a majority vote).
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I just don’t think it’s as simple as that. A school that wants out can make life pretty miserable for the ACC in more ways than one. Long, drawn out lawsuits, decreasing revenue, threats of revenue loss after they leave, ally building with other member institutions to force the hand of the conference, etc. I could easily see Clemson and FSU turning the conference into a civil war for 2 years until the ACC says cut us a check and leave. Worst case scenario for the ACC is they spend all their time, money, and goodwill getting locked up in court and they lose their case. The conference would dissolve immediately.
 
savbandjacket said:
It’s not binary thinking. The appeal of Tech is a world class engineering school that competes at the highest level of college athletics. If it stops competing at the highest level of college athletics, it loses its identity and tradition. I don’t give a öööö about Sunbelt and lower teams when they are on our schedule as cupcake fillers. I’m damned sure not going to waste any time or money on a schedule full of them.
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It is binary thinking when you allude to playing in the SECheat or else we're a Sunbelt team. That is known as a false dichotomy.

So, let's play a game. How many teams can the SECheat/B1G hold? 40 maybe, before returns diminish too much to add more? There are currently 65 teams in the P5 conferences alone. There are probably another 8-10 that compete with those 65 teams quite well, so there are maybe 75 teams competitive at the current P5 level. Minus the 40 who achieved Nirvana status, that leaves 35 teams that are not Sunbelt team. But wait! If the great equalizer is money, then some of those Sunbelt teams can fundraise their way into the Nirvana foyer. Suddenly, you have a really good, top-shelf league again.

In my experience, that's the way life works. It's not a static, binary exercise of who's in and who's out.

So, now let's play another game. Assuming those 40 teams includes GA Tech. What's at the end of the rainbow for us? Is it playing nose-to-nose with Alabama, Oklahoma, Ohio State, Michigan, (yes) Georgia, LSU, Texas, et al, forever? What do they do when the hoi polloi catches up? Do they exclaim, "Geeze, I guess they're going to pass us by!" Of course not, they're off chasing more rainbows, and we're browbeating one another (again) over needing yet more money. The pitched chase for money will never end.

In my experience, when you define relevance by how much money you must have, you're bound to perpetually chase "relevance."

I choose not to do this. You do what you want, only please... ditch the binary thinking. It's not healthy.
 
stinger78 said:
It is binary thinking when you allude to playing in the SECheat or else we're a Sunbelt team. That is known as a false dichotomy.

So, let's play a game. How many teams can the SECheat/B1G hold? 40 maybe, before returns diminish too much to add more? There are currently 65 teams in the P5 conferences alone. There are probably another 8-10 that compete with those 65 teams quite well, so there are maybe 75 teams competitive at the current P5 level. Minus the 40 who achieved Nirvana status, that leaves 35 teams that are not Sunbelt team. But wait! If the great equalizer is money, then some of those Sunbelt teams can fundraise their way into the Nirvana foyer. Suddenly, you have a really good, top-shelf league again.

In my experience, that's the way life works. It's not a static, binary exercise of who's in and who's out.

So, now let's play another game. Assuming those 40 teams includes GA Tech. What's at the end of the rainbow for us? Is it playing nose-to-nose with Alabama, Oklahoma, Ohio State, Michigan, (yes) Georgia, LSU, Texas, et al, forever? What do they do when the hoi polloi catches up? Do they exclaim, "Geeze, I guess they're going to pass us by!" Of course not, they're off chasing more rainbows, and we're browbeating one another (again) over needing yet more money. The pitched chase for money will never end.

In my experience, when you define relevance by how much money you must have, you're bound to perpetually chase "relevance."

I choose not to do this. You do what you want, only please... ditch the binary thinking. It's not healthy.
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What in the ever loving hell are you even talking about now.? Jesus.
 
stinger78 said:
It is binary thinking when you allude to playing in the SECheat or else we're a Sunbelt team. That is known as a false dichotomy.

So, let's play a game. How many teams can the SECheat/B1G hold? 40 maybe, before returns diminish too much to add more? There are currently 65 teams in the P5 conferences alone. There are probably another 8-10 that compete with those 65 teams quite well, so there are maybe 75 teams competitive at the current P5 level. Minus the 40 who achieved Nirvana status, that leaves 35 teams that are not Sunbelt team. But wait! If the great equalizer is money, then some of those Sunbelt teams can fundraise their way into the Nirvana foyer. Suddenly, you have a really good, top-shelf league again.

In my experience, that's the way life works. It's not a static, binary exercise of who's in and who's out.

So, now let's play another game. Assuming those 40 teams includes GA Tech. What's at the end of the rainbow for us? Is it playing nose-to-nose with Alabama, Oklahoma, Ohio State, Michigan, (yes) Georgia, LSU, Texas, et al, forever? What do they do when the hoi polloi catches up? Do they exclaim, "Geeze, I guess they're going to pass us by!" Of course not, they're off chasing more rainbows, and we're browbeating one another (again) over needing yet more money. The pitched chase for money will never end.

In my experience, when you define relevance by how much money you must have, you're bound to perpetually chase "relevance."

I choose not to do this. You do what you want, only please... ditch the binary thinking. It's not healthy.
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Are you a former ACC commissioner?
 
H-town said:
Are you a former ACC commissioner?
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Ha! Nope, just someone who knows the hamster on the wheel will never get where he's going, and he would be much better off stepping off the wheel and enjoying life. My life is too short to worry constantly about keeping up with the mental midgets who will give their last dollar to (hopefully) buy another championship. You guys can have at it all you want.
 
ScionOfSouthland said:
Maybe but I am not sold the GOR is as strong as it is claimed to be. I bet a lawsuit from 2-4 schools kills it altogether or the ACC lowers it to let those schools out. You may see the new conference pay it outright, especially if the money between the ACC and the other conferences continues to widen. A one time check for 10 years of ACC rights is soon becoming chump change from the SEC & BIG.
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How many votes do you need to dissolve the conference? Because if you could get 4 schools a shot at the B1G and SEC, you are looking at 480+ million in buyout. I’d bet you could find 3 schools attractive to the Big12 (say VT, Pitt, and Cuse) who would gladly take half that buyout and just join the Big12. Plus you get to divide up ACC assets. The remaining half of the ACC would have to reconstitute itself as a conference and rework all existing contracts with partners/refs/bowls. It would be a ööööshow for the remaining members.
 
stinger78 said:
Ha! Nope, just someone who knows the hamster on the wheel will never get where he's going, and he would be much better off stepping off the wheel and enjoying life. My life is too short to worry constantly about keeping up with the mental midgets who will give their last dollar to (hopefully) buy another championship. You guys can have at it all you want.
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I found Dave Braine everyone!
 
stinger78 said:
Please make a point, you're missing mine.

Why don't the Overlords of College Football take on the NFL? There's more money there. Why stop short?

So, you didn't answer my question: Why follow them over the ledge? Is there a rainbow there with a pot 'o gold? What happens when you get there? It's like asking what happens if the dog ever catches the car. Is he off to chase the next car? Is this the predestined future of college football - to perpetually chase the money? If they stop short of crushing the NFL, they've cashed in on relevance?

There are good answers to all these questions, I think. Those answers will never be found unless there is a commonly agreed definition of "viability," to use your word. I think therein is the secret to happiness and success.
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Sure, college football is far from amateurism. Anyone with a brain understands that. But it is the world we live in. If your goal is being a part of honor and purity, D3 games are a heck of a lot of fun
 
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