Expansion Rumors…

FSU should have joined the SEC in the first place. They have SEC arrogance. But, Coach Bowden correctly thought they could do better in the ACC. To me, rhe ACC was never again as good as it was when we joined as the 8th team. I would rather the ACC just let FSU go than to keep listening to them say how much better they are than the ACC. I don't think the SEC or the Big 10 want them. But, they would be welcome in the Big 12. Just let them find out how great they are. Then, can possibly shut up? By the way, I feel the same way about Clemson. Good by and good luck.
 
mts315 said:
Because TX and OK are huge football markets that the SEC had no foothold in other than TX A&M which is the most recent member and a much smaller draw than TX.

There is no reason for the SEC to take FSU or Miami as they are a lower draw than UF in Florida. No reason to take Clemson either as USCe draws well and SC is a small state, better to make Clemson fend for themselves.

Clemson may be a decent draw for the BIG as a southern school but if I were them I would rather have GT and Miami. From a logistical stand point both schools make travel easy having major airports. Both also sit in huge media markets.
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Again that is old school thinking. It's not about access to media markets I think most realize the cable funding revenue will not be the same moving forward. They didn't need the Texas media market with A&M already in the fold. That was important in launching the SEC network but less important moving forward. They want to get eyeballs on games, and teams want to be able to get in the playoffs. They want huge fanbases. Take a look at Clemson FB twitter, they have over 1mil followers; South Carolina has 451k. If you want to know where our problems are at GT, look at how many followers we have...
 
rocky top buzz said:
Again that is old school thinking. It's not about access to media markets I think most realize the cable funding revenue will not be the same moving forward. They didn't need the Texas media market with A&M already in the fold. That was important in launching the SEC network but less important moving forward. They want to get eyeballs on games, and teams want to be able to get in the playoffs. They want huge fanbases. Take a look at Clemson FB twitter, they have over 1mil followers; South Carolina has 451k. If you want to know where our problems are at GT, look at how many followers we have...
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Why does SEC care about Clemson at this point? Certainly USCe is going to fight Clemson being a member of the SEC.

Lets do a thought experiment... If GT, Miami and ND go to BIG and Virginia and UNC go to SEC. After that no one in the SEC or BIG will schedule Clemson or FSU because they have enough conference teams to fill a full schedule. Clemson and FSU now play a schedule of lower level D1 teams and leftover ACC teams of which VT and BC are maybe the next best teams.

How long does Clemson and FSU football survive in that environment?

ESPN is all in on it new huge SEC. FOX CBS and NBC are all in on BIG games. ESPN is probably free to drop the ACC deal at that point as 4 of the teams have just bolted. There is no big money TV deal for the leftover ACC, so Clemson and FSU basically die a slow agonizing death of mediocrity with less revenue than they are bitching about now.

If I was the BIG or SEC conference Commissioner that is exactly what I would be looking at for my next round of expansion. Why bail out a couple of powerhouse programs when I can take a few teams that give me everything I want from the markets and pose no current threat to my major power existing member teams?
 
stinger78 said:
That conference would boast 35 of the top 113 TV markets (4 of the top 10, 10 of the top 20, 16 of the top 30, and 22 of the top 50). Still, with all those team, several in much smaller markets (only 16 of the 32 in the top 30 markets), the law of diminishing returns might lower the per team payouts. Here they are:
#5. Dallas/Ft. Worth (SMU)
#6. San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose (Cal and Stanford)
#7. Atlanta (GT)
#10. Boston (BC)
#11. Phoenix (ASU)
#12. Seattle/Tacoma (UW)
#13. Tampa/St. Pete (USF/UCF/FSU)
#16. Denver (UC)
#17. Orlando/Daytona/Melbourne (USF/UCF/FSU)
#18. Miami/Ft. Lauderdale (UM)
#21. Portland (UO)
#22. Charlotte (UNC)
#24. Raleigh/Durham (UNC, NCSU, DU)
#26. Pittsburgh (UP)
#27. San Diego (SDSU)
#30. Salt Lake City (UU)
#31. San Antonio (UTSAS)
#35. Greenville/Spartanburg/Anderson (CU)
#43, Jacksonville (FSU)
#46. Norfolk/Portsmouth/Newport News (UVA)
#47. Greensboro/High Point/Winston Salem (WFU)
#49. Louisville (UL)
#50. New Orleans (TU)
#51. Memphis (UM)
#55. Fresno/Visalia (FS)
#56. Richmond/Petersburg (UVA)
#64. Tuscon (UA)
#66. Spokane (WSU)
#71. Roanoke/Lynchburg (VPI)
#76. Columbia (CU)
#77. Rochester (SU)
#82. Colorado Springs/Pueblo (UC)
#87. Syracuse (SU)
#98. South Bend/Elkhart (ND)
#108. Tallahassee/Thomasville (FSU)
#113. Eugene (OSU)
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Half of those “markets” are filled with people who couldn’t give a rats ass about college football, and the people in those markets that do are probably way more interested in BIG Or SEC games.
 
mts315 said:
Why does SEC care about Clemson at this point? Certainly USCe is going to fight Clemson being a member of the SEC.

Lets do a thought experiment... If GT, Miami and ND go to BIG and Virginia and UNC go to SEC. After that no one in the SEC or BIG will schedule Clemson or FSU because they have enough conference teams to fill a full schedule. Clemson and FSU now play a schedule of lower level D1 teams and leftover ACC teams of which VT and BC are maybe the next best teams.

How long does Clemson and FSU football survive in that environment?

ESPN is all in on it new huge SEC. FOX CBS and NBC are all in on BIG games. ESPN is probably free to drop the ACC deal at that point as 4 of the teams have just bolted. There is no big money TV deal for the leftover ACC, so Clemson and FSU basically die a slow agonizing death of mediocrity with less revenue than they are bitching about now.

If I was the BIG or SEC conference Commissioner that is exactly what I would be looking at for my next round of expansion. Why bail out a couple of powerhouse programs when I can take a few teams that give me everything I want from the markets and pose no current threat to my major power existing member teams?
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Virginia can’t get anyone more than 5 miles from Charlottesville to give a crap about them
 
donsue said:
Virginia can’t get anyone more than 5 miles from Charlottesville to give a crap about them
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It does beg the question of how did a program get anyone to care about them in the first place? Miami? Oregon? Oregon wasn’t öööö 30 years ago.
 
THWG247 said:
read this elsewhere......

“ESPN is the driving force behind this. People are just not thinking this through.

The typical FSU ACC game gets about 2 million viewers. Good by ACC standards. But check out these two FSU games from last year:

  • FSU/LSU: 7.6 million viewers
  • FSU/Florida: 6.7 million viewers
Each of those games was worth 3+ ACC games in advertising revenue to ESPN.

Imagine if FSU was in the SEC and their regular schedule included: Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, LSU, & Texas A&M (which is not unrealistic at all in the SEC).

Those 5 games would produce 15 times the advertising revenue of their ACC counterpart games. 15 times.

ESPN isn't getting a bargain with FSU in the ACC. They are losing money.

It is in ESPN's interest to get them into the SEC where they can pull more TV viewers.”
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There you go confusing people with the facts!
 
donsue said:
Virginia can’t get anyone more than 5 miles from Charlottesville to give a crap about them
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Virginia doesn't matter in this equation. UVA is 2 hours from Washington DC, which has a huge population of SEC Alumni who would love nothing more than to see their team play live 2 hours from their house. It is the same reason the BIG took Maryland a few years ago. Do you think anyone gave a crap about Maryland football? Do you think anyone does now?

The SEC wants to stay a regional conference, UNC and Virginia are the obvious choices for SEC expansion on the East Coast.

The BIG wants to be a national conference, GT and Miami make the most logistical travel sense, open hot beds of recruiting, and fit academically (especially GT).
 
mts315 said:
Virginia doesn't matter in this equation. UVA is 2 hours from Washington DC, which has a huge population of SEC Alumni who would love nothing more than to see their team play live 2 hours from their house. It is the same reason the BIG took Maryland a few years ago. Do you think anyone gave a crap about Maryland football? Do you think anyone does now?

The SEC wants to stay a regional conference, UNC and Virginia are the obvious choices for SEC expansion on the East Coast.

The BIG wants to be a national conference, GT and Miami make the most logistical travel sense, open hot beds of recruiting, and fit academically (especially GT).
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DC seems more like a BIG dominated region? And I personally just can’t see UVA in the SEC, a bad fit in so many ways
 
donsue said:
Half of those “markets” are filled with people who couldn’t give a rats ass about college football, and the people in those markets that do are probably way more interested in BIG Or SEC games.
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I think that's a pretty consistent error in applying those numbers to college football, so it washes out. Pick whatever percentage you wish and apply it evenly.
 
mts315 said:
Are those people tuning in to see FSU or LSU and UF?

The stats would bear out that it is LSU and UF drawing the numbers not FSU. Would GT vs those teams draw equal numbers?

The FSU LSU game was LSU's first game of the season in the Superdome. The UF game is of course the rivalry game. Both games were played in the prime time 7:30 time slot.

Sorry you can't just pull the best two games in the best time slots and extrapolate that FSU would draw those number in a full slate of the SEC. Any team would pull those numbers in that time slot. In fact there was only one week the entire season where a 7pm or later game wasn't in the top 3 rated games that week this past season. Week 8 the 5th rated game was at 7:30, the 7 or later games made up 5 of the top 11. We were #11 against Virginia.
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I don’t disagree with this, unfortunatly I can’t find any WF/duke/Cuse/BC/UVA vs. SEC teams in primetime to compare ratings......oh wait, thats because literally nobody wants to see that sh!t
 
mts315 said:
These may be facts but they don't support what he says they support.
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Let’s just agree to disagree. The thread has gotten way off balance. People can post all these outlandish models for expansion and try to prove support for them. No one really knows if, or when the SEC and BIG will attempt to further expand, or who would interest them.
One thing that several of us have tried to point out is the utter ineptitude of the ACC. Not only did they tie themselves to the stupidest GOR deal possible, but the model doesn’t work in today’s landscape. GT would have a chance with an additional 40 million in revenue.
The money gap is so big now that we are seeing numerous so called SEC “football schools” now outpacing ACC programs in basketball as well.
 
GBurdell said:
Florida State, Clemson unhappy with ACC: Financial hurdles face conference powers potentially leaving - CBSSports.com
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If the state of Georgia behaved like the state of Virginia did over VT joining the ACC, UGA would be forced to veto either of those schools until a GT invite. However, since the state of Georgia seems to be on a mission to damage GT, it will never, ever, ever happen. I can see Florida doing it to get FSU in and South Carolina doing it for Clemson

Keeping in mind, we still have more SEC championships than most of that league.
 
JJacket said:
If the state of Georgia behaved like the state of Virginia did over VT joining the ACC, UGA would be forced to veto either of those schools until a GT invite. However, since the state of Georgia seems to be on a mission to damage GT, it will never, ever, ever happen. I can see Florida doing it to get FSU in and South Carolina doing it for Clemson

Keeping in mind, we still have more SEC championships than most of that league.
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By far. And in fact, Tulane has more than KY and Miss St. Vandy, Arkansas, SC have none
 
JJacket said:
If the state of Georgia behaved like the state of Virginia did over VT joining the ACC, UGA would be forced to veto either of those schools until a GT invite. However, since the state of Georgia seems to be on a mission to damage GT, it will never, ever, ever happen. I can see Florida doing it to get FSU in and South Carolina doing it for Clemson

Keeping in mind, we still have more SEC championships than most of that league.
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Pretty sure that UF, UGA and USCe have always had a handshake agreement to never let in any other In-State schools. Why would they want to allow their chief rival to join the SEC and make more money. UF, UGA, and USCe have no incentive to help their in-state rivals. Giving Clemson, Miami, GT, or FSU access to the SEC only hurts UGA, UF, and USCe.

I could be wrong but I don't see anyway the SEC gives any rival teams of current members an invite.

If the roles were reversed and we were in a position to invite UGA to conference where they could be more competitive because they would be making more money, would you want that? I would say THWG let them wither. Hope they have to close up shop. I am sure UF, UGA, and USCe feel the exact same way about their rivals.
 
mts315 said:
Pretty sure that UF, UGA and USCe have always had a handshake agreement to never let in any other In-State schools. Why would they want to allow their chief rival to join the SEC and make more money. UF, UGA, and USCe have no incentive to help their in-state rivals. Giving Clemson, Miami, GT, or FSU access to the SEC only hurts UGA, UF, and USCe.

I could be wrong but I don't see anyway the SEC gives any rival teams of current members an invite.

If the roles were reversed and we were in a position to invite UGA to conference where they could be more competitive because they would be making more money, would you want that? I would say THWG let them wither. Hope they have to close up shop. I am sure UF, UGA, and USCe feel the exact same way about their rivals.
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The rival “veto” power doesn’t exist any more. Otherwise, Texas A&M would have never allowed Texas to come in
 
mts315 said:
Pretty sure that UF, UGA and USCe have always had a handshake agreement to never let in any other In-State schools. Why would they want to allow their chief rival to join the SEC and make more money. UF, UGA, and USCe have no incentive to help their in-state rivals. Giving Clemson, Miami, GT, or FSU access to the SEC only hurts UGA, UF, and USCe.

I could be wrong but I don't see anyway the SEC gives any rival teams of current members an invite.

If the roles were reversed and we were in a position to invite UGA to conference where they could be more competitive because they would be making more money, would you want that? I would say THWG let them wither. Hope they have to close up shop. I am sure UF, UGA, and USCe feel the exact same way about their rivals.
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To continue that thought...Has any conference invited a member schools historical rival during all this expansion? Closest I can think of is TX to the SEC with TX A&M, but TX A&M is a new member and pretty low on the SEC pecking order of priority.
 
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