For those who think a new coach is the answer...

coit said:
When did the boosting happen? When they went 6-6 two years ago? When they lost to Miss St and Tenn? (hint: this year)

Auburn is sitting at 4-3, and looking to drop 3 more games this year (TAM, UGA, Bama). They could easily finish this season at 6-6.

I kinda assumed that folks responding to this wouldn't see Auburn as a success story, because I certainly don't. I see them as very similar to us. Some really great seasons, and some really ööööty ones.
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It is only a fair comparison if you really feel that Malzahn would have lost to Pittsburgh, USF, and Duke this year.
 
BuzzLaw said:
It really doesn't matter who our next coach is. Whoever it is, whenever the time comes, is going to have a difficult time winning for a couple years if he doesn't run the same offense. I think it will be incredibly difficult to find a top caliber coach to come in and take over.

I remember when we were discussing lifetime contract for PJ after winning the Orange Bowl. These last couple of years have sucked for us and him. I don't want to fire him. I think he'll walk away if he doesn't think he can be successful.
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So the new coach will have the same record as we do now?
 
coit said:
I never said we shouldn't change coaches. I only said that a coaching change will not guarantee that anything will change.
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But keeping CPJ guarantees nothing will change. Which is what we'll see in 2019, since I think he's got 1 year left regardless.

If he trots out Graham the last 3 games in some new formations and throws it around more, I'll change my opinion but a 2019 that has TO as the starter is a surefire path to another 2017-2018 year. To even think we can keep trotting this offense out there after watching Duke and PITT throttle it is ignorant, to put it politely.

And no, Colt, that last sentence is NOT directed at you but just an in-general statement.
 
RamblinWreck92 said:
But keeping CPJ guarantees nothing will change.
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You can't really make this statement. We went from 3-9 to 9-4 just a couple of years ago.

TQM is a placeholder QB. Lucas Johnson would've won the starting job at some point if he hadn't gotten hurt, given reports of his performances in spring / fall.

I think most people are fine with a change. But a lot of us don't have any confidence that it will do much to improve things.
 
coit said:
You can't really make this statement. We went from 3-9 to 9-4 just a couple of years ago.

TQM is a placeholder QB. Lucas Johnson would've won the starting job at some point if he hadn't gotten hurt, given reports of his performances in spring / fall.

I think most people are fine with a change. But a lot of us don't have any confidence that it will do much to improve things.
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Fair enough. How about "Almost certainly guarantees"?

A lot of us don't have any confidence that keeping CPJ will do much to improve things either. Please note I'm in the camp that sees him still being our HC in 2019.
 
coit said:
And then they went 6-6. And will probably go 6-6 again this year. You all keep making my point. Sometimes you have good seasons, sometimes you have bad ones. A coach that gets you to the championship game is also the coach that will get you 6-6 or worse. Chizik won a natty and went 3-9. Malzan went to the natty one year (with Chizik's players) and has been mediocre ever since. Lost to UCF last year.

Am I the only one that knows how to look at the big picture?

I never said we shouldn't change coaches. I only said that a coaching change will not guarantee that anything will change.
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I think we're all looking at the big picture. Some people just see it differently than you do. Again, I don't see it as being relevant that a coach won with a previous coach's players, except in the sense that it's an indictment on the previous coach. Would Gailey have won an ACC championship with his players? He had several chances and never could. PJ managed to win one with the players Gailey couldn't win with.

Sometimes reasonable people can look at the same set of information and come to different conclusions. While you may see the fact that Auburn's coaches have been successful with the prior coach's players as evidence that they shouldn't have made coaching changes, others will see that as proof that the previous coach wasn't getting the job done and/or fresh blood was needed to rejuvenate the team (and yes, oftentimes the same coach who provides that spark finds himself in a similar situation to his predecessor at some point down the line).

I don't know that a new coach will improve our program, but I'm becoming increasingly more convinced that a change is more likely to get us out of this rut than CPJ is.
 
gtfan088 said:
While you may see the fact that Auburn's coaches have been successful with the prior coach's players as evidence that they shouldn't have made coaching changes, others will see that as proof that the previous coach wasn't getting the job done and/or fresh blood was needed to rejuvenate the team.
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I didn't say that at all. I'm not looking at one season. I'm looking at all the seasons. And I see that Mahlzan has been no better than Chizik was. That's why the title of this thread says a new coach may not be the answer. In Auburn's case, it really didn't help.
 
coit said:
I didn't say that at all. I'm not looking at one season. I'm looking at all the seasons. And I see that Mahlzan has been no better than Chizik was. That's why the title of this thread says a new coach may not be the answer. In Auburn's case, it really didn't help.
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I'm confused then. If we're not placing value on individual seasons, then there's no way CPJ would even still be here. Without the success of 2014, he would have been fired several years ago.
 
gtfan088 said:
I think we're all looking at the big picture. Some people just see it differently than you do. Again, I don't see it as being relevant that a coach won with a previous coach's players, except in the sense that it's an indictment on the previous coach. Would Gailey have won an ACC championship with his players? He had several chances and never could. PJ managed to win one with the players Gailey couldn't win with.

Sometimes reasonable people can look at the same set of information and come to different conclusions. While you may see the fact that Auburn's coaches have been successful with the prior coach's players as evidence that they shouldn't have made coaching changes, others will see that as proof that the previous coach wasn't getting the job done and/or fresh blood was needed to rejuvenate the team (and yes, oftentimes the same coach who provides that spark finds himself in a similar situation to his predecessor at some point down the line).

I don't know that a new coach will improve our program, but I'm becoming increasingly more convinced that a change is more likely to get us out of this rut than CPJ is.
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Pretty disingenuous tbh. I've only seen one or two people say 'despite CPJ's successes, he should still go'. Most people are very clearly ignoring the big picture and are justifying wanting to fire him with really narrow, arbitrary criteria.
 
gtfan088 said:
I'm confused then. If we're not placing value on individual seasons, then there's no way CPJ would even still be here. Without the success of 2014, he would have been fired several years ago.
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That is probably true. But in the context of this post the statement is forward looking. As in changing coaches hasn't always resulted in marked improvement. Plenty of examples, I just used Auburn for one.
 
EffinDane said:
Pretty disingenuous tbh. I've only seen one or two people say 'despite CPJ's successes, he should still go'. Most people are very clearly ignoring the big picture and are justifying wanting to fire him with really narrow, arbitrary criteria.
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Pretty disingenuous tbh. Most people acknowledge that 2008, 2009, and 2014 were very good years. Some are justifying wanting to keep him with really narrow, arbitrary criteria.
 
RamblinWreck92 said:
But keeping CPJ guarantees nothing will change. Which is what we'll see in 2019, since I think he's got 1 year left regardless.

If he trots out Graham the last 3 games in some new formations and throws it around more, I'll change my opinion but a 2019 that has TO as the starter is a surefire path to another 2017-2018 year. To even think we can keep trotting this offense out there after watching Duke and PITT throttle it is ignorant, to put it politely.
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Agree with this to a point. We need to see something that gives us optimism that things can change. Unless Oliver has potential as a passer that we have yet to see, he and Marshall are serviceable backups that can competently run our base offense, but not FBS-caliber QBs that can make us a winning program. There are a lot of things that can be changed besides the head coach, but if we don't have hope that those changes can/will be made, it's hard to justify NOT finding a new coach.

I think it's obvious that our defensive talent and staff has improved, so it's past time we've seen an equivalent change on the offensive side.
 
coit said:
That is probably true. But in the context of this post the statement is forward looking. As in changing coaches hasn't always resulted in marked improvement. Plenty of examples, I just used Auburn for one.
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I suppose it depends on why one thinks a coaching change is made. We can probably agree that most coaches who are fired aren't fired after one of their better seasons, or for longer tenured coaches, even one of their better 3-4 year spans. In most cases, the writing is on the wall well before the trigger is pulled because things have been heading south for awhile (i.e. more than just one down year), and the impetus for the coaching change isn't necessarily to hire a coach who will have a better body of work, because that's very difficult to project, but to hire a coach who can buck the downward trend.

I think CPJ was a significantly better hire than Gailey, but one could very easily draw a 'body of work' comparison that argues that Johnson was no better. I would disagree, because his highs have been much higher, but playing devil's advocate, his lows have been lower.
 
gtfan088 said:
Pretty disingenuous tbh. Most people acknowledge that 2008, 2009, and 2014 were very good years. Some are justifying wanting to keep him with really narrow, arbitrary criteria.
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2008, 2009, 2014, and 2016 were undeniably good years.

Most reasonable fans will acknowledge that 2015 can happen to most non-elite teams.

But 2017 was a ööööshow. If 2018 goes that way, it is a horrible sign. I would want a change, but could understand TS giving another year(although I think it would be a death spiral).

Ultimately, I think cpj is going to fail for the same reason gailey failed. The inability to develop backup qbs.
 
gtfan088 said:
Pretty disingenuous tbh. Most people acknowledge that 2008, 2009, and 2014 were very good years. Some are justifying wanting to keep him with really narrow, arbitrary criteria.
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Like most of your posts, this is extremely dumb for obvious reasons
 
EffinDane said:
Wrong and a ööööload of college football history, including PJ's tenure at Tech, says otherwise
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Meh, I'm probably right as the majority of his tenure at Tech says. He's followed up a crappy season with a good season once. He's followed up crappy seasons with more crap twice, possibly 3 times now. A ööööload of college football history says I'm right. This is Lou Holtz Final Years territory now. Home games next season will be a ghost town at this rate.
 
EffinDane said:
Like most of your posts, this is extremely dumb for obvious reasons
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There are a handful of posters who have always disliked PJ, but many, if not most, of the people now wanting him gone were chanting C-P-J in Tampa in 2009, loving the Orange Bowl five years later, etc. If you honestly think that most people can't simultaneously believe that he has had some very good years while also sensing a descent into early-mid 90s area performances, I don't know what to tell you. But keep calling my posts dumb, because there's the winning argument.

Look, I'm not going to cry about it if he's given another year. I like the offense and I want him to get us back to the level he once had us at. I just think it's more likely that a coaching change gets us there than it is that he does. Turnovers, penalties, lack of a passing attack, lack of a hurry-up offense, poor defense, and poor special teams have all become trends that seem to indicate a disconnect between the coaches and players.
 
The reason he will be fired this year is because there is no one else that the blame can be passed onto. I’m not talking about just PJ passing the blame but the fan base as well. It will not be a DC conversation and now that the offense is just as big of issue he’ll have no leg to stand on. I predict an immediate announcement following a lopsided loss to UGA. There will be no bowl game. Hope we win out but it ain’t happening. The PJ era is over.
 
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