Haunting words by CPJ...

[Jacketzrus]

Tell us you’re a retard without telling us you’re a retard.

Bless your heart Costanza.

 

[WracerX]

Do you guys not understand how stats work? This is comparing exactly that. It is our yards per game against Clemson for each of those years vs. their yearly YPG average given up by the defense for each same year. We averaged 100 yards LESS offense against them over that span than EVERYBODY ELSE THEY PLAYED.

Seems like yards per possession would be the correct stat for what you are getting at, since both teams generally had about 75% of the possessions you would see in a regular game.

 

[GT98]

Clemson defensive YPG avg for year and against GT from 2015-2018

Year	GT	AVG	Delta
2015	230	313	83
2016	124	312	188
2017	230	277	47
2018	203	286	83

If the option was such an "equalizer" against better teams and talent, then why did we average 100 YPG less than their yearly AVG over the last 4 years of CPJ?

Clemson lost 4 games and appeared in the NCG 3 times in that span. I think all but 1 of their losses were against Alabama, so I'd say no offense fared well against Clemson. Equalizer shouldn't be confused with "magic win pill".

This. I'm not an "option fanatic". I was responding that Clemson as noted above was the top or next to the top program over the window that you selected. That being a standard is ridiculous of course.

My push back on the juice crew is that it was clear in year 1 that Goof is a poor coach and in-game coaching is terrible. The stuff that kept getting peddled was how much recruiting has improved under Goof. I don't see it. The eyeball test shows the best offensive player (Smith) and defense (Thomas) were "lowly" CPJ recruits in year 4. The other push back is I don't understand the fascination of telling us repeatedly how terrible Johnson was as some sort of defense of Goof and crew when literally CPJ's worst season (that at least has a viable excuse of a large # of injuries) is still better than Goof.

I do know that GT has had its best teams when a coach (Ralph, CPJ) did something a little bit different and was a (mostly) superior in-game play caller. I would like to see that approach on whomever the new coach will be--especially since that coach will be at a significant monetary disadvantage to many of the opponents on the schedule.

 

[Jacketzrus]

Do you guys not understand how stats work? This is comparing exactly that. It is our yards per game against Clemson for each of those years vs. their yearly YPG average given up by the defense for each same year. We averaged 100 yards LESS offense against them over that span than EVERYBODY ELSE THEY PLAYED.

Yup misread your post.

Still not impressed.

 

[GoGATech]

This. I'm not an "option fanatic". I was responding that Clemson as noted above was the top or next to the top program over the window that you selected. That being a standard is ridiculous of course.

It 100% matters because that is what the biggest argument for the option is, is that is an equalizer when playing teams more talented than you. If that is the case, then why did everybody else that played Clemson those 4 years play them better than we did? That is what the stats show.

 

[GoGATech]

Seems like yards per possession would be the correct stat for what you are getting at, since both teams generally had about 75% of the possessions you would see in a regular game.

GT yards per play vs Clemson / Clemson defense YPP average for year

2018: 3.17/4.19
2017: 4.11/4.27
2016: 2.38/4.63
2015: 4.11/4.85

We were still a worse offense against them than their yearly average for each year.

 

[GoGATech]

Yup misread your post.

Still not impressed.

Not trying to impress you, but showing you our offense was worse against them in that span than anybody else. So if it's an equalizer, why is that so?

 

[rosebud]

Name me a worst mutt loss than 2009. 2013 might be close, I guess. There's something in common with those games btw.

Did you happen to catch the last two matchups?

 

[GT98]

It 100% matters because that is what the biggest argument for the option is, is that is an equalizer when playing teams more talented than you. If that is the case, then why did everybody else that played Clemson those 4 years play them better than we did? That is what the stats show.

Clemson was vastly superior to GT in those seasons and certainly on the lines of scrimmage. If a team is that much more talented than you, scheme won't matter much. If you are saying that GT did worse vs. Clemson than other opponents did on average, you're right. The period of Clemson football is literally the zenith of their program.

It was clear in CPJ's last couple of seasons that GT is no longer competitive with Clemson or Ugag. Again, physical superiority (by that level of disparity) cancels all theories. The difference is that even in those last few seasons, he won more games in a season and a half than Goof has in 4. The argument for even if Goof doesn't work out because he has flipped the roster seems to be really wishful thinking. Worst o-line (coached by another fraud) and DB group in Div. 1.

 

[Jacketzrus]

GT yards per play vs Clemson / Clemson defense YPP average for year

2018: 3.17/4.19
2017: 4.11/4.27
2016: 2.38/4.63
2015: 4.11/4.85

We were still a worse offense against them than their yearly average for each year.

You're comparison is still meaningless because you're comparing it to the top defensive front in college football.


That's why it's dumb

I can't think of a single really good team that won all their games on offense or defense. Sometimes one side will need to pick up the slack.

That was the whole issue with the CPJ reign. There was never a good defensive coordinator to fall back on.

That 2014 team could have made a real run at the big one with a decent defense.

 

[GoGATech]

Clemson was vastly superior to GT in those seasons and certainly on the lines of scrimmage. If a team is that much more talented than you, scheme won't matter much. If you are saying that GT did worse vs. Clemson than other opponents did on average, you're right. The period of Clemson football is literally the zenith of their program.

It was clear in CPJ's last couple of seasons that GT is no longer competitive with Clemson or Ugag. Again, physical superiority (by that level of disparity) cancels all theories. The difference is that even in those last few seasons, he won more games in a season and a half than Goof has in 4. The argument for even if Goof doesn't work out because he has flipped the roster seems to be really wishful thinking. Worst o-line (coached by another fraud) and DB group in Div. 1.

This is not an advocation for Collins. This is where you CPJ lovers keep being mistaken. I don't want Collins. Its time to make a change. You are making my exact point for me that I also don't want an option coach because you will see the same thing again, we will not have the talent to compete with larger programs. The days of Orange Bowls and ACC Championships were over for CPJ and the option and he knew it.

 

[rosebud]

Clemson was vastly superior to GT in those seasons and certainly on the lines of scrimmage. If a team is that much more talented than you, scheme won't matter much. If you are saying that GT did worse vs. Clemson than other opponents did on average, you're right. The period of Clemson football is literally the zenith of their program.

It was clear in CPJ's last couple of seasons that GT is no longer competitive with Clemson or Ugag. Again, physical superiority (by that level of disparity) cancels all theories. The difference is that even in those last few seasons, he won more games in a season and a half than Goof has in 4. The argument for even if Goof doesn't work out because he has flipped the roster seems to be really wishful thinking. Worst o-line (coached by another fraud) and DB group in Div. 1.

CPJ won more games in 2014 than Collin’s has in 3&1/4 years. I’m not a option or nothing guy but levels of coaching are undebatable.

 

[Jacketzrus]

This is not an advocation for Collins. This is where you CPJ lovers keep being mistaken. I don't want Collins. Its time to make a change. You are making my exact point for me that I also don't want an option coach because you will see the same thing again, we will not have the talent to compete with larger programs. The days of Orange Bowls and ACC Championships were over for CPJ and the option and he knew it.

We would have had more talent if we had similar resources in the recruiting department that CGC has enjoyed.

Again CPJ had less resources than Duke.

 

[WracerX]

GT yards per play vs Clemson / Clemson defense YPP average for year

2018: 3.17/4.19
2017: 4.11/4.27
2016: 2.38/4.63
2015: 4.11/4.85

We were still a worse offense against them than their yearly average for each year.

Curiously, we were a better team in 16/18 than 15/17, but performed worse.

 

[GT98]

This is not an advocation for Collins. This is where you CPJ lovers keep being mistaken. I don't want Collins. Its time to make a change. You are making my exact point for me that I also don't want an option coach because you will see the same thing again, we will not have the talent to compete with larger programs. The days of Orange Bowls and ACC Championships were over for CPJ and the option and he knew it.

I'm a GT lover. I just push back to you and the juice crew clowns who love to post repeatedly that CPJ was a terrible coach and his tenure here was an albatross for GT and he sucked. Let me repeat this for since you don't seem too bright: I DO NOT WANT ANOTHER OPTION COACH.

I do want a coach (or at least an offensive coordinator) that uses multiple offensive looks that can give GT perhaps a schematic advantage over an opponent. Lining up and running the same thing everyone else does with lesser talent and the worst coaching staff in the history of the program isn't working out too well, is it?

 

[WracerX]

This is not an advocation for Collins. This is where you CPJ lovers keep being mistaken. I don't want Collins. Its time to make a change. You are making my exact point for me that I also don't want an option coach because you will see the same thing again, we will not have the talent to compete with larger programs. The days of Orange Bowls and ACC Championships were over for CPJ and the option and he knew it.

We’ll just have to disagree there. We did fine in 2016. And we did ok in 2018 with the worst QB under CPJ.

I think the overall team in 2018 was better than 2016 except for QB. That was due to the increased funding TStan put into recruiting.

That being said, I don’t mind that CPJ retired. He really seemed to mail it in the last two years. We should all be thankful he did retire and not force a buyout because I think 8 wins was the ceiling for the effort he was putting in.

 

[gtrower]

Johnson was fully aware that he was leaving a pitiful batch of QB’s and a line that was only good because of Parker Braun (who left). He knew seven wins was only happening if the planets were perfectly aligned.

This is extremely incorrect. Oliver + Yates + Graham was probably the deepest and most talented group of option QBs in his entire tenure. Graham especially would have been electric in that offense.

When he left I remember being really bummed about finally building that great QB room and not being able to see what he could do with it.

Brandon Adams is also a variable worth mentioning here. He was probably gonna be a pre-season all conference DT in 2019.

 

[GoGATech]

I'm a GT lover. I just push back to you and the juice crew clowns who love to post repeatedly that CPJ was a terrible coach and his tenure here was an albatross for GT and he sucked. Let me repeat this for since you don't seem too bright: I DO NOT WANT ANOTHER OPTION COACH.

I do want a coach (or at least an offensive coordinator) that uses multiple offensive looks that can give GT perhaps a schematic advantage over an opponent. Lining up and running the same thing everyone else does with lesser talent and the worst coaching staff in the history of the program isn't working out too well, is it?

I never said he was a terrible coach and appreciated all the time he spent here and what he did for GT. The folks I argue with are the ones that still wanted him to stay and want him back. It was time for him to go and we do not need to go back to it. There are folks here that will argue you to the death that we were still and would still be competitive with Clemson and UGA with the option and that is flat out false.

 

[EagleSting]

Do you guys not understand how stats work? This is comparing exactly that. It is our yards per game against Clemson for each of those years vs. their yearly YPG average given up by the defense for each same year. We averaged 100 yards LESS offense against them over that span than EVERYBODY ELSE THEY PLAYED.

But everybody else also lost. Also, everybody else wasn't as run heavy as we were. Clemson had a stout run defense so obviously run heavy offenses are going to be skewed worse than everybody else. They played GS the week before playing GT. Not that that made a difference because GS stats against Clemson were also pretty similar.

 

[GoGATech]

We would have had more talent if we had similar resources in the recruiting department that CGC has enjoyed.

Again CPJ had less resources than Duke.

Also incorrect. There are plenty of highly rated recruits out there that we have gotten in the last few years and some that had interest but we eventually lost out on that flat out said they would not have even considered GT if we still ran the option, and that was offensive and defensive guys.