Official Option maggots vs No-option maggots Battleground Thread

[smokey_wasp]

Man, I wasn't even going to participate in this thread, but folks are saying crazy stuff!

 

[ibeeballin]

Holy hell. Go back and read Shaq Mason's own words when he got drafted by the Patriots. Where he talked about how he had to learn entirely new techniques and had to learn pass sets on the fly because he had never been taught to do that the way the NFL does it while at GT.

Or hey, how about the words of Bill Belichick himself?

Source: Pats agree to 5-year deal with Mason

The Patriots and starting right guard Shaq Mason have agreed to a five-year contract extension worth up to $50 million, a league source confirms.

www.espn.in

Oh yeah...guess Belichick didn't get the memo about option linemen being blackballed? LOL.

But folks are still convinced that the historic transformation and transition is a fluke.

Imagine walking in the meeting rooms and the first lesson you have to teach is “How to get in a 2pt stance” or “How to pass set 101”

 

[ibeeballin]

Man, I wasn't even going to participate in this thread, but folks are saying crazy stuff!

It’s like I’m reading the GT Facebook group

 

[QuadF]

Holy hell. Go back and read Shaq Mason's own words when he got drafted by the Patriots. Where he talked about how he had to learn entirely new techniques and had to learn pass sets on the fly because he had never been taught to do that the way the NFL does it while at GT.

Or hey, how about the words of Bill Belichick himself?

Source: Pats agree to 5-year deal with Mason

The Patriots and starting right guard Shaq Mason have agreed to a five-year contract extension worth up to $50 million, a league source confirms.

www.espn.in

Oh yeah...guess Belichick didn't get the memo about option linemen being blackballed? LOL.

Yeah that’s why there is never anything known as a “draft bust” and UDFA’s never come out and play. If you think the NFL is not subject to groupthink than that is moronic. Why would the NFL need to work hard to find players? They are easily replaceable year after year with willing draftees lining up. There is no minor league system. To play pro football you pretty much have to play in the NFL. They can do whatever they want to schools, programs or players they don’t like.

the NFL reduces risk by eliminating players from certain offenses with limited exceptions. Why take time to teach this kid who is good when I can just cycle through players from other programs who look the part.

What is more likely that the one time a team took a flyer on our best lineman heproved himself worthy of a first round selection or our linemen were significantly undervalued coming out of college.

It points to a level of risk inherent to the linemen we produced. To believe there's an unfair prejudice against that risk is simply a value judgement. Iiwii.

 

[daBuzz]

Man, I wasn't even going to participate in this thread, but folks are saying crazy stuff!

Yep. It's like people think that if you don't rant and rave about firing Collins every third post, you must be "accepting mediocrity" or some such nonsense. I can dislike Collins, appreciate that he's actually doing a decent job recruiting and hope he does well since he's the Tech head coach but at the same time realize he and his staff are on the hottest of hot seats and better pull off some serious in-game performance if they're gonna stay around...and be ok with that.

And then there are the option fanatics who get bent out of shape when I point out that I think Paul Johnson did a hell of a job at Tech and was a frigging savant offensive coach. But his defenses were notoriously bad (even in 2008 and 2009 when we had 3 or 4 future NFL multi-year starters playing on those defenses) and the talent drop off during his tenure was noticeable. If you don't agree with that, argue with ESPN and the major college football publications. Pretty much every one of them said it was going to be a 4 year job to flip that roster. Hell, I distinctly remember one of the magazines has quotes from the other anonymous ACC coaches about every team in the ACC. One of them said about Tech during Johnson's last 2 years, "I don't know how Johnson is able to win as many games as he does there because they really don't have a lot of talent on that roster at all" or WTTE. While that's a testament to CPJ's ability to do more with less, it's also a frightening indictment of how far the talent pool had receded during his tenure.

 

[THWG247]

We had All ACC selections almost every year PJ was here.

NFL didn’t want our guys because they don’t want the option played in college. It was essentially collusion against our linemen. Our G-C-G under CPJ could’ve been drafted many times over. You’re telling me the only lineman GT produced for the NFL isn’t just good but one of the premier lineman for one of the best teams in the NFL? And he was a 4th rounder. Gimme a break. More former players and scouts ööööting on the option because they all ööööing hate it.

Specifically i should have said look how few we had on defense, it was bad. A couple years with zero.

Secondly you are freaking insane if you believe half the sh!t that you write, take a step back and reflect upon what an asshole your making of yourself

 

[daBuzz]

It points to a level of risk inherent to the linemen we produced. To believe there's an unfair prejudice against that risk is simply a value judgement. Iiwii.

I really respect you but come on. It wasn't just a level of risk. Johnson literally recruited a different size and body type for his offensive linemen. Mason was an anomaly.

He might have wanted to recruit the 6'7" 315 pound guys who could run of the world but we simply did not while Paul was here (and there ain't a lot of them anyway). Either he didn't want them or they didn't want to play in that type offense...one of the 2 must be true.

But there is no conspiracy theory on the part of the NFL. Just didn't happen.

 

[ibeeballin]

It points to a level of risk inherent to the linemen we produced. To believe there's an unfair prejudice against that risk is simply a value judgement. Iiwii.

So what other GT OL was discriminated against by the NFL?

 

[THWG247]

I'm just poking a little fun at the "poophole loophole" Christians. It's a satire, not a suggestion. Of course there's some importance in maintaining one's virginity prior to marriage. Why, you may ask?

Without DNA testing, there's only one way to know that the boy who pops out nine months from now was put there by you: If you are the only one that's been in there, silly! But why the hell does THAT matter? Inheritance, of course, and that's a big deal especially in the past when titles were at sake.

That being said, anybody who has half a brain knows that once a human is ready (past puberty), they are going to do the deed. We as a society, because the big brain isn't fully developed when puberty comes along, have stretched “childhood” beyond the point where the body says it's ready to get busy. What's a couple to do in accordance with Edwardian social norms?

But for the folks who weren't part of the gentry, those who had little to pass their heirs, what made virginity so important? Frankly, imitation. The only virgins who mattered were the ones whose “issue" would inherit Daddy's title, and after a couple of boys were born, nobody cared. The old heir and a spare rule. The rise of the middle class lead to their imitation of the nobles in their marriage habits. Thus the concept of virginity mattering spreads.

In a world with effective birth control, when a goodly portion of the world has come to the conclusion that virginity is actually a crock of crap, we still have incredulous questions like this. Of course folks are using anal as a way to both satisfy what their bodies are screaming they're ready for, and their antiquated moral systems are hollering they shouldn't do.

Of course, there's always the question of what does your religion say about those moral systems. I guess what I'm saying with my meme is:

If you're doing anal to protect your virginity because of religious morals, then you aren't actually adhering to your religion's morals. If you're doing it for practical purposes, just use a damned condom.

WTF? Get help, seriously.

 

[ibeeballin]

I really respect you but come on. It wasn't just a level of risk. Johnson literally recruited a different size and body type for his offensive linemen. Mason was an anomaly.

He might have wanted to recruit the 6'7" 315 pound guys who could run of the world but we simply did not while Paul was here (and there ain't a lot of them anyway). Either he didn't want them or they didn't want to play in that type offense...one of the 2 must be true.

But there is no conspiracy theory on the part of the NFL. Just didn't happen.

This not true either.

 

[daBuzz]

This not true either.

It is. He may not have wanted to but look at the linemen of his era versus even the ones we have today. The size and weight differences are noticeable.

If I still had it on my phone, I took a photo of our offensive linemen standing at the LOS with UNC defensive linemen on the other side during Collins' first year. Their smallest D lineman was literally larger than our largest offensive lineman. And I took a similar photo of their OL compared to our DL. Once again, not a single player on the GT side was remotely close to the size of the UNC players.

 

[QuadF]

I really respect you but come on. It wasn't just a level of risk. Johnson literally recruited a different size and body type for his offensive linemen. Mason was an anomaly.

He might have wanted to recruit the 6'7" 315 pound guys who could run of the world but we simply did not while Paul was here (and there ain't a lot of them anyway). Either he didn't want them or they didn't want to play in that type offense...one of the 2 must be true.

But there is no conspiracy theory on the part of the NFL. Just didn't happen.

I wasn't suggesting it was a conspiracy. In fact, I felt I was agreeing with your perception of the matter. I'm just offering an explanation of why linemen that were the typical NFL size weren't gobbled up in the draft - there's a level of risk inherent in the translation to prostyle offenses.

 

[ibeeballin]

It is. He may not have wanted to but look at the linemen of his era versus even the ones we have today. The size and weight differences are noticeable.

If I still had it on my phone, I took a photo of our offensive linemen standing at the LOS with UNC defensive linemen on the other side during Collins' first year. Their smallest D lineman was literally larger than our largest offensive lineman. And I took a similar photo of their OL compared to our DL. Once again, not a single player on the GT side was remotely close to the size of the UNC players.

You answered the question here. He recruited the same OL as his peers 6’4 300lb. This special skill set nonsense came from fans to justify poor recruiting

 

[gtchief]

When we were running the option it seemed like almost all of the top players at their positions NEVER reported offers from GT, even in state. Like even an offer. I know this is anecdotal but that's my view of recruiting during that period.

 

[tomknight]

I do not believe it violates any posted rules.

Doesn't make it any less offensive

 

[smokey_wasp]

When we were running the option it seemed like almost all of the top players at their positions NEVER reported offers from GT, even in state. Like even an offer. I know this is anecdotal but that's my view of recruiting during that period.

I didn't follow it as closely back then, but I think we offered most of the top guys, excepting drop back QBs and tight ends. Of course, back then, I never really paid attention until a guy committed or we were in his final 2 or 3 at least.

 

[QuadF]

I didn't follow it as closely back then, but I think we offered most of the top guys, excepting drop back QBs and tight ends. Of course, back then, I never really paid attention until a guy committed or we were in his final 2 or 3 at least.

I dunno if we offered them but we talked to them. I don't think Johnson was one to just throw out offers to a top recruit that didn't show interest.

 

[ibeeballin]

I didn't follow it as closely back then, but I think we offered most of the top guys, excepting drop back QBs and tight ends. Of course, back then, I never really paid attention until a guy committed or we were in his final 2 or 3 at least.

We were Jameis Winston first offer

 

[johncu]

But folks are still convinced that the historic transformation and transition is a fluke.

Imagine walking in the meeting rooms and the first lesson you have to teach is “How to get in a 2pt stance” or “How to pass set 101”

I get your point, but it’s also a coach’s job to do exactly that. PJ came in and took guys who had no idea how to run the option and won 20 games in his first 2 seasons. GC won 6 and our guys looked like they had no idea wtf to do far too often. The “historic transformation” thing is a weak excuse by Year 3.

 

[johncu]

Yep. It's like people think that if you don't rant and rave about firing Collins every third post, you must be "accepting mediocrity" or some such nonsense. I can dislike Collins, appreciate that he's actually doing a decent job recruiting and hope he does well since he's the Tech head coach but at the same time realize he and his staff are on the hottest of hot seats and better pull off some serious in-game performance if they're gonna stay around...and be ok with that.

And then there are the option fanatics who get bent out of shape when I point out that I think Paul Johnson did a hell of a job at Tech and was a frigging savant offensive coach. But his defenses were notoriously bad (even in 2008 and 2009 when we had 3 or 4 future NFL multi-year starters playing on those defenses) and the talent drop off during his tenure was noticeable. If you don't agree with that, argue with ESPN and the major college football publications. Pretty much every one of them said it was going to be a 4 year job to flip that roster. Hell, I distinctly remember one of the magazines has quotes from the other anonymous ACC coaches about every team in the ACC. One of them said about Tech during Johnson's last 2 years, "I don't know how Johnson is able to win as many games as he does there because they really don't have a lot of talent on that roster at all" or WTTE. While that's a testament to CPJ's ability to do more with less, it's also a frightening indictment of how far the talent pool had receded during his tenure.

This type of nuance has no place here. Paul Johnson is either the best coach of all time or the downfall of our program - there is no in between.