Other Schools' Coaching Changes [Now with Colorado's Deion]

PointAfterTouchdown said:
@QuadF

First off, Dan Mullen, whom Ive met several times by the way, is a good football coach, and an outstanding offensive coordinator. There’s that.

Every argument you have made in this entire thread about Deion lacking coaching experience and unproven is looking through college football lenses of days gone by. You make clear and valid arguments, if we were living in the year 2019. But you cant think of that version of college football anymore. That ship is long gone and the NIL and Transfer Portal are here to stay.

“Proven” coaches have 0 experience with NIL Money and Transfer Portal. And if those two things are now are the forefront of college football, there isnt a coach out there that we would want at Tech over Coach Prime.
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Can you explain this more in depth? Does Prime have some exclusive NIL connections that he's bringing? If what he brings is excitement, that doesn't seem so exclusive. I don't see why Prime will have access to more NIL money/connections than the entirety of the GT alumni & fan base. If he doesn't bring more than the entire GT alumni & fan base can muster, why is his talent so exclusively desired?
 
PointAfterTouchdown said:
@QuadF


First off, Dan Mullen, whom Ive met several times by the way, is a good football coach, and an outstanding offensive coordinator. There’s that.

Every argument you have made in this entire thread about Deion lacking coaching experience and unproven is looking through college football lenses of days gone by. You make clear and valid arguments, if we were living in the year 2019. But you cant think of that version of college football anymore. That ship is long gone and the NIL and Transfer Portal are here to stay.

“Proven” coaches have 0 experience with NIL Money and Transfer Portal. And if those two things are now are the forefront of college football, there isnt a coach out there that we would want at Tech over Coach Prime.
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QuadF said:
Can you explain this more in depth? Does Prime have some exclusive NIL connections that he's bringing? If what he brings is excitement, that doesn't seem so exclusive. I don't see why Prime will have access to more NIL money/connections than the entirety of the GT alumni & fan base. If he doesn't bring more than the entire GT alumni & fan base can muster, why is his talent so exclusively desired?
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Yes he will bring more than GT alumni and fan base. I'm to drunk to do the research but I'd bet freaking Jackson state players have more nil money than Tech. Who had ever heard of Jackson state before primetime?

You are right we don't know if he can coach. You are wrong to write off every thing else he has to offer. Yes he would be a risky and nontraditional hire but the upside is huge and the downside is no worse than where we're at

He wants his kid in the Heisman talk and that's not happening at Jackson state. They will both be P5 next year. Why not in a weak ACC in a town that loves him?
 
Tshirt Man said:
Yes he will bring more than GT alumni and fan base. I'm to drunk to do the research but I'd bet freaking Jackson state players have more nil money than Tech. Who had ever heard of Jackson state before primetime?

You are right we don't know if he can coach. You are wrong to write off every thing else he has to offer. Yes he would be a risky and nontraditional hire but the upside is huge and the downside is no worse than where we're at

He wants his kid in the Heisman talk and that's not happening at Jackson state. They will both be P5 next year. Why not in a weak ACC in a town that loves him?
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We heard about it because of primetime - that's not in dispute. What is being speculated is how much is prime vs how much is nil money. For nil money, does it transfer? If prime just brought in the nil money, why can't gt with it's "1 in 4 grads is a millionaire" bring in more?

I'm not dismissive of his other attributes, but perhaps where we disagree is the importance of actual coaching. I think 3 years of Collins is enough to prove how much good coaching has to accompany good recruiting, yet there's a strange lack of regard for the most important duty of the hc position.
 
QuadF said:
We heard about it because of primetime - that's not in dispute. What is being speculated is how much is prime vs how much is nil money. For nil money, does it transfer? If prime just brought in the nil money, why can't gt with it's "1 in 4 grads is a millionaire" bring in more?

I'm not dismissive of his other attributes, but perhaps where we disagree is the importance of actual coaching. I think 3 years of Collins is enough to prove how much good coaching has to accompany good recruiting, yet there's a strange lack of regard for the most important duty of the hc position.
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Your passionate arguments against hiring Deion reminds me of 2018 when you were one of the biggest opponents to hiring Lane Kiffin. I remember you even called him terribad.
 
QuadF said:
We heard about it because of primetime - that's not in dispute. What is being speculated is how much is prime vs how much is nil money. For nil money, does it transfer? If prime just brought in the nil money, why can't gt with it's "1 in 4 grads is a millionaire" bring in more?

I'm not dismissive of his other attributes, but perhaps where we disagree is the importance of actual coaching. I think 3 years of Collins is enough to prove how much good coaching has to accompany good recruiting, yet there's a strange lack of regard for the most important duty of the hc position.
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Because out of the "1 in 4 grads is a millionaire" crowd, about .2 in 4 actually know or care that we have a football team.

Your can he coach at a P5 level is a valid concern. I've never denied that. That same concern is true with most of the coaches that will be considered. I don't think we can't afford to hire an established P5 coach away from somewhere he is currently having success. That leaves us with coaches that were at some point successful but we're ran off from their last stop for whatever reason. If Mullen can't succeed at Florida, what makes you think he would do better or as good at Tech?

If we are going with an unproven at the P5 level coach, let's go with one that has the highest potential.
 
Tshirt Man said:
Yes he will bring more than GT alumni and fan base. I'm to drunk to do the research but I'd bet freaking Jackson state players have more nil money than Tech. Who had ever heard of Jackson state before primetime?

You are right we don't know if he can coach. You are wrong to write off every thing else he has to offer. Yes he would be a risky and nontraditional hire but the upside is huge and the downside is no worse than where we're at

He wants his kid in the Heisman talk and that's not happening at Jackson state. They will both be P5 next year. Why not in a weak ACC in a town that loves him?
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Think his kids' class credits will transfer in?
 
Akinji07 said:
Your passionate arguments against hiring Deion reminds me of 2018 when you were one of the biggest opponents to hiring Lane Kiffin. I remember you even called him terribad.
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And I remember your multiple juice crew threads. I guess we all make mistakes. :)
 
QuadF said:
And I remember your multiple juice crew threads. I guess we all make mistakes. :)
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Yeah there were no juice crew threads and excuse me if I ever tried to be excited about the choice that was already made in 2019 and get people to come to the game and to the tailgate. That öööö ended with Citadel. You’re continuing to make the same mistake.
 
@QuadF Let me put it this way, I'm gonna try to explain this without any emotions. We have a saying in Turkish, blowing on yogurt after getting your mouth burned by hot milk. That's what you're doing here. Because Collins came to us as a recruiter and öööö the bed, in your mind we shouldn't hire another recruiter because he will also suck. You're thinking we need to hire and an Xs and Os guy. The problem is eventhough Collins came to us as a recruiter, the guy had fundamentally different ideas about how to manage a team. He had a few good recruits but where it matters the most, the offensive line and quarterback he did not recruit a single guy who would start with our opponents. He was a no name Temple head coach who took a 10 win team and turned them into a 7 win team. We gave him discount coordinators to boot and the result is what we've all seen for the past 4 years.

Deion Sanders has the name recognition not just in this city and this state but nationally. We know he has the name recognition and his own brand to not try to make GT a fake Atlanta brand to try to fool kids into playing here. I'm fairly certain that even if we don't play the NIL game he will recruit better talent here than Geoff Collins has been able to, and if he can bring 2-3 offensive linemen and one great quarterback we're looking at 8 wins in this weak ass conference. Now I will say this. Hiring Deion is a bigger commitment than just hiring Deion. Deion needs to be surrounded with good assistants, good coordinators and we have to play the NIL game. We don't do these things and Deion will be a bust and you will proudly say I told you assholes Deion was öööö. If we're not going to do that then I don't want Deion to be hired either, and I also don't really care what no name Sun Belt coach we hire either. I also don't think Deion will come here to be set up to lose so if we don't make those commitments he won't come here. If you set the limitations you and I and everyone currently sees exist, if we're going to do things at status quo, then we're just hoping to get back to mediocrity we enjoyed under CPJ except for a few good years. That landscape of college football is gone and we're just gonna continue to be miserable as we continue to get pummeled by Clemson and georgia every year and maybe we'll win enough one year to lose to Clemson in the ACCCG.

I would love to also hire a great Xs and Os guy who's also a great recruiter. Those guys all have P5 coaching jobs and if we paid one of those guys $7M-$8M we're gonna scrape the bottom of the barrel for assistants. If we hire Deion at $4M-$5M, we can spend more money on getting great assistants. Then we would have Xs and Os coaches with a great recruiter at the helm. This is a high risk high reward situations and we need to do this to jolt the program back to life because right now we're on life support. People are signing onto stingtalk just to tell us how little they care about football anymore. Another 3 years of obscurity and we won't have money to fire or hire anyone. We're either gonna take a risk with a no-name sunbelt coach who might or might not pan out or we're gonna take a risk and hire Deion Sanders who might or might not pan out. But if he does, sky's the limit. Why not take the bet that pays more?

But anyway, I'm not calling you an idiot or anything. We both want to see Tech do well, we just have different opinions about how to achieve that. I hope we hire Prime Time and I'm right. And if we don't then I hope you're right.
 
QuadF said:
I didn't accuse you of such a detailed position, but my questions remain:
Why do you think Prime will be better than Mullen? Why do you think Prime will improve our recruiting better than other candidates? What do you think is a realistic recruiting ranking and in what time-frame? And why do you think Prime is capable of coaching players to beat top-10 teams more than the alternatives?



Where's the quantified impact on recruiting? If he's "lazy" how is he pulling in great classes everywhere he goes?



That doesn't sound like too bad of a record considering where MSU was before he got there. His record there is better than Gailey and CPJ. MSU is the "other state" in the SEC. He only had 2 seasons under 6 wins, and 1 was his first season. They're generally considered bottom 1/3 of their conference, and yet he managed to take them to the OB. He was able to get top-25 classes pretty consistently. Don't you think we're a better program with more resources than MSU?



Fair points on the buyout and desire to coach. If his heart's not in it, he's not a fit for us. I'm sure the buyout clause would be looked at to see if that changes anything, but presumptions about the contract shouldn't be an automatic disqualifier.
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1. I don’t know if Prime will be better than Mullen in the long run. I’d say he would give GT a short term boost from a recruiting and fan interest level. I think Prime could assemble a better overall staff based on his contacts. As far as beating Top 10 teams, you need to temper the expectations a little. First goal regardless of who the new HC is should be getting to 6-6. Becoming a consistent Top 25 program should be the long term goal. With that would come chances to beat Top 10 teams.

2. You need to provide your definition of “great” when it comes to recruiting classes. The only programs I can think of over the CFP era who can lay claim to that are Alabama, Clemson, UGA, Ohio State and Oklahoma. And what do they all have in common? Multiple CFP appearances, and outside of OU, NC’s.

It‘s fine if you want to dispute his recruiting efforts at UF based on the talent pool and resources he had. As I pointed out, numerous recruiting analysts and Mods had already voiced their concerns well before he was let go last season. At MSU his classes ranked as follows per Rivals.com:

2009 - 25
2010 - 38
2011 - 44
2012 - 30
2013 - 26
2014 - 37
2015 - 16
2016 - 34

So Mullen finished with 2 Top 25 classes, one of which was the transition class he inherited when he was hired post Sylvester Croom in 2009. The other was in 2015. So that’s not consistently getting Top 25 classes. Joe Morehead who lasted 3 recruiting cycles had 2 Top 25 classes (25, 23).

3. As far as your MSU to GT question, I think MSU has more resources vs GT. And in 2022, MSU is a better program based on the last 5 years on the field. MSU has the SEC $$$ and a much easier recruiting pool. They can take JUCO players without worrying about getting accepted. The Pirate’s 1st 3 classes were 26, 26, 16. MSU currently sits at #30. If GT truly invests in the football program they could reverse that. It should be much easier to win an average of 8 games a year in the ACC Coastal vs. the SEC West.

4. My point with the “other school” relates to the disparity between UGA’s fan base vs. GT’s. Ole Miss and MSU are pretty much on equal footing in the state of Mississippi.
 
Here's my thought. Deion knows above all else, he has built HIS name up to mean something. He has a value in just his name. You don't see him out pimping Twinkies, Big Ed's used cars, or some such other garbage. He just recently started promoting AFLAC, along with.................SABAN. No small feat there to even get Saban to agree to share time with Prime. So, if he were to come to Tech, I feel pretty confident he is NOT going to let HIS name be associated with a loser. He would do exactly the opposite of Clown and fix issues, whether skill or coaching. I like what I hear him saying to the players at Jackson St. He talks a straight line of accountability and doesn't seem to take any BS from them. Something we haven't seen here in the last 3+ years. Along with his name recognition, that is going to open many a door that others will not have that luxury.
 
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