#PITTvsGT Coach Collins Postgame Press Conference

swampsting said:
At the end of the day, CGC is now 8-19 at Tech.
Fifteen of those losses are by double digits.
Seven are by 20 points or more.
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This is exactly the issue. If we kept most of those losses close, I would feel a little better about 8-19. But losing 15 (!!) of those by DOUBLE DIGITS is really the thing that demonstrates a coaching issue here.
 
You win. You guys are right. Goober is an offensive genius!
 
GoGATech said:
Since then, we've had 9 more goal to go possessions with 4 TDs, 3 FGs, a blocked FG, and a turnover. Here are the ones we didn't score a TD and why.


9) UNC - 1st and G from 10. First play holding on GT. 1st and G from 20 now, we run read option first play and Yates makes wrong read and gives to Gibbs, loses 4 more yards. Yates had room to run too. Now 2nd and 24. There's no magic playcalling from this scenario. Next play is outside zone run to Gibbs for no gain. 3rd down we basically conceded to take the FG points and run outside zone again with Gibbs to pick up a few yards and make it a chip shot FG. So is this OC's fault when it's 1st and G from 20

10) UNC - 1st and G from 10. Mason run inside zone for 1 yard. 2nd down pass to Norris, catchable ball on outside shoulder, defender holding one of his arms but no call. 3rd down, false start now 3rd and 14. Incomplete pass on a catchable ball to Norris, good play by the defender to knock it down. Still fail to see where any of this is on the OC.

11) UNC - 1st and G from 5, Mason had just broken a long run down to the 5. We go hurry up on 1st and 2nd down (like everybody wanted us to do against Clemson) to try to power it in while UNC is reeling. 1st down gets 2 yards, 2nd down gets another. Not enough push from our OL. These weren't slow developing read plays, they were straight gives with a straight forward push by our OL. They had been executing well this game but did not here, so I guess the OC should've already known they wouldn't? 3rd and G from the 2, inside wasn't working so ran jet motion with Dontae, quick flip pass to him going around the edge with blockers that didn't block anybody for a 3 yard loss. Don't see anything wrong with that play call. Inside power got stuffed twice in a row, get it outside to your speedy playmaker with blockers. What's wrong with that call?

12) Pitt - 1st and G from the 4. We could not run the ball on Pitt all day, so first down call quick screen to McCollum tackled for 1 yard loss. 2nd down had a TE coming across behind the OL would've been open for a TD but he tripped. Sims had to run for his life because zero blocking but managed to scramble back to the 1. So 3rd and goal from the 1 and we false start, now we're back to the 6. Pass to Gibbs in the flat and that's a great play by the corner to let his man go to the inside and stay out in coverage on Gibbs. He was there high though on a defenseless receiver and by the definition of the rule, that targeting call should've been upheld. 4th and G from the 4, have to go for it because of the score and McCollum slips on a quick slant that was there, and also was pulled by the defender again with no call. That play was there, execution just was not. I would like to know what type of play calling could have worked better in this situation?

13) Pitt - 1st and G from the 7. Gibbs runs for a TD and gets called back by that cheap holding call on Norris. So now it's goal to go from the 15. 1st down pass to Carter back shoulder at the pylon, had a hand on it but couldn't make the play because his other arm was wrapped up and being held by the defender, no call as usual. 2nd and 15, outside zone run with Gibbs, 2 guys whiff on blocks and Gibbs gets tackled for 8 yard loss. 3rd and 23, Jeff has zero time to pass, is getting mauled and has to throw it away just to save a FG opportunity. Then we let a guy come free between C and G on FG try and it gets blocked. I see nothing wrong with playcalling in this series either.


So there are the 13 instances from this year and last that we have had 1st and goal and failed to score a TD. 6 of those were affected by penalties. Of the other 7, one we fumbled on 2nd down. That leaves 6 1st and goal scenarios we didn't score a TD with nothing else affecting the drive. 3 of those were against Clemson, one of the best defenses we'll face this year, who also had not even given up an offensive TD at the time and we still had plays there that just failed on execution. The other 3, one against NC State again we had plays there and didn't execute well, one against UNC we went hurry up power like folks wanted on 1st and 2nd down but our OL didn't block well enough and we didn't convert going outside on 3rd., and the other is the NIU series that I covered extensively above. I still fail to see where the playcalling is the issue. I agree we have a problem scoring TDs in goal to go scenarios and our redzone offense also needs improvement. But here's the thing, when your OL play is lacking, where do you think that shows up the most? When we are back on our own side of the field and have the defense stretched out and room for the QB/RBs to get in space and make plays? or in the redzone where when our QB or RB's get in trouble, they have more DB's in a tighter space to keep contain? or inside the 10 where everybody is in a phone booth and you have nowhere to escape?
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So your saying fire brent key as well?
 
GoGATech said:
Exactly. Folks are throwing him under the bus when there are many other things factoring into our suckage.
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The OC is responsible for having a game plan in place for all situations. He is responsible for having his players know what to do in a given situation. He is responsible for anything and everything they do in a game. When things work, it is to his credit. When things don't work, then yes, he must bear the responsibility. When certain game situations result in similar results, then he is to be applauded if they work and "thrown under the bus" (your words) if they fail. You have pointed out his successes in red zone appearances, and I have pointed out his consistency in failures (always the exact same scenario, although different personnel may be involved). Since you are so much into stats, how does his percentage of failed red zone attempts compare to other coaches in the country, or even in the ACC. I would bet that he has the highest failure rate by far.
 
Supersize that order mutt said:
I have pointed out his consistency in failures (always the exact same scenario, although different personnel may be involved).
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My God you are being obtuse. I have showed you that this is 100% false. It has been a completely different scenario every single time. Maybe 2 of them have been the same? Do you see we had almost half of them we get behind the sticks with penalties? How do you put that on the OC? Sure put it on the HC or the OL coach if it's them false starting or holding, but the OC? It's like you have a personal vendetta against the guy for some reason. I have expressed numerous times that yes we have a red zone and goal line problem. THE PROBLEM HAS CONSISTENTLY BEEN OUR OL PLAY. I just showed you every goal to go scenario that did not result in a TD. There is nothing we have not tried. There is no magic play call that works. We have to execute and that starts up front where execution is at it's lowest on the offense.
 
GoGATech said:
Since then, we've had 9 more goal to go possessions with 4 TDs, 3 FGs, a blocked FG, and a turnover. Here are the ones we didn't score a TD and why.


9) UNC - 1st and G from 10. First play holding on GT. 1st and G from 20 now, we run read option first play and Yates makes wrong read and gives to Gibbs, loses 4 more yards. Yates had room to run too. Now 2nd and 24. There's no magic playcalling from this scenario. Next play is outside zone run to Gibbs for no gain. 3rd down we basically conceded to take the FG points and run outside zone again with Gibbs to pick up a few yards and make it a chip shot FG. So is this OC's fault when it's 1st and G from 20

10) UNC - 1st and G from 10. Mason run inside zone for 1 yard. 2nd down pass to Norris, catchable ball on outside shoulder, defender holding one of his arms but no call. 3rd down, false start now 3rd and 14. Incomplete pass on a catchable ball to Norris, good play by the defender to knock it down. Still fail to see where any of this is on the OC.

11) UNC - 1st and G from 5, Mason had just broken a long run down to the 5. We go hurry up on 1st and 2nd down (like everybody wanted us to do against Clemson) to try to power it in while UNC is reeling. 1st down gets 2 yards, 2nd down gets another. Not enough push from our OL. These weren't slow developing read plays, they were straight gives with a straight forward push by our OL. They had been executing well this game but did not here, so I guess the OC should've already known they wouldn't? 3rd and G from the 2, inside wasn't working so ran jet motion with Dontae, quick flip pass to him going around the edge with blockers that didn't block anybody for a 3 yard loss. Don't see anything wrong with that play call. Inside power got stuffed twice in a row, get it outside to your speedy playmaker with blockers. What's wrong with that call?

12) Pitt - 1st and G from the 4. We could not run the ball on Pitt all day, so first down call quick screen to McCollum tackled for 1 yard loss. 2nd down had a TE coming across behind the OL would've been open for a TD but he tripped. Sims had to run for his life because zero blocking but managed to scramble back to the 1. So 3rd and goal from the 1 and we false start, now we're back to the 6. Pass to Gibbs in the flat and that's a great play by the corner to let his man go to the inside and stay out in coverage on Gibbs. He was there high though on a defenseless receiver and by the definition of the rule, that targeting call should've been upheld. 4th and G from the 4, have to go for it because of the score and McCollum slips on a quick slant that was there, and also was pulled by the defender again with no call. That play was there, execution just was not. I would like to know what type of play calling could have worked better in this situation?

13) Pitt - 1st and G from the 7. Gibbs runs for a TD and gets called back by that cheap holding call on Norris. So now it's goal to go from the 15. 1st down pass to Carter back shoulder at the pylon, had a hand on it but couldn't make the play because his other arm was wrapped up and being held by the defender, no call as usual. 2nd and 15, outside zone run with Gibbs, 2 guys whiff on blocks and Gibbs gets tackled for 8 yard loss. 3rd and 23, Jeff has zero time to pass, is getting mauled and has to throw it away just to save a FG opportunity. Then we let a guy come free between C and G on FG try and it gets blocked. I see nothing wrong with playcalling in this series either.


So there are the 13 instances from this year and last that we have had 1st and goal and failed to score a TD. 6 of those were affected by penalties. Of the other 7, one we fumbled on 2nd down. That leaves 6 1st and goal scenarios we didn't score a TD with nothing else affecting the drive. 3 of those were against Clemson, one of the best defenses we'll face this year, who also had not even given up an offensive TD at the time and we still had plays there that just failed on execution. The other 3, one against NC State again we had plays there and didn't execute well, one against UNC we went hurry up power like folks wanted on 1st and 2nd down but our OL didn't block well enough and we didn't convert going outside on 3rd., and the other is the NIU series that I covered extensively above. I still fail to see where the playcalling is the issue. I agree we have a problem scoring TDs in goal to go scenarios and our redzone offense also needs improvement. But here's the thing, when your OL play is lacking, where do you think that shows up the most? When we are back on our own side of the field and have the defense stretched out and room for the QB/RBs to get in space and make plays? or in the redzone where when our QB or RB's get in trouble, they have more DB's in a tighter space to keep contain? or inside the 10 where everybody is in a phone booth and you have nowhere to escape?
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What a bizarre lot of effort you have put in to defend our OC. On the one hand, I applaud the effort. On the other hand, in service of what...?

This year we are 104th in the world in scoring TD's in the red zone, tied with Vandy, Rice and Ga. State. We're 94th in getting any kind of points in the red zone.

You don't want to blame the coach because fumbles and penalties are on the players. Do the 100 schools ahead of us not have players, too? Why don't they fumble and commit penalties like we do?

You don't put blame for the occasional fumble or penalty on the coach. You do put blame for consistent fumbles and penalties on the coach.
 
18in32 said:
What a bizarre lot of effort you have put in to defend our OC. On the one hand, I applaud the effort. On the other hand, in service of what...?

This year we are 104th in the world in scoring TD's in the red zone, tied with Vandy, Rice and Ga. State. We're 94th in getting any kind of points in the red zone.

You don't want to blame the coach because fumbles and penalties are on the players. Do the 100 schools ahead of us not have players, too? Why don't they fumble and commit penalties like we do?

You don't put blame for the occasional fumble or penalty on the coach. You do put blame for consistent fumbles and penalties on the coach.
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I think the point is that you don't put blame for consistent fumbles and penalties on the playcaller. This is something that is still partially Patenaudes responsibility but it is not as solely his as playcalling.

Also the 100 schools ahead of us may legitimately have better offensive lines.
 
We know the problem is the OLine. We all get that. So then the OC needs to get creative and try something different inside the red zone. That’s all we are asking for. I’d like to see Sims under center with Mason, and a couple DLinemen in the backfield to go QB sneak with a push. That has a better chance of working than fades or Gibbs 6 yards behind the LOS with our OLine.

I remember when I coached a YMCA youth hoops team one year. It was the type of league where they made the teams and all I knew was my son would be on it. It took 1 practice for me to realize I couldn’t run what I normally had in previous years because I got hosed and didn’t have one tall kid. So I adjusted throughout the first 2 games and came up with a system to run and jack up 3’s for either buckets or long rebounds we could actually get being short. We weren’t the best but we didn’t get run out either. Patenaude needs to adjust to what he has. He does a fairly decent job between the 20’s but that’s not where the points are.
 
vapspwi said:
I wish people would öööö off with this tired bullshit. Drawing them off worked sometimes - we got Clemson with it twice in the same game. You don’t get extra credit for having timeouts left at the end of the game, so it seldom hurt to see if we could get a cheap 5 yards. It had as much chance of success as the stuff we threw out there this week on 4th down, and maybe more.

JRjr
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Vespinae said:
Plus, I don't think CPJ ever did that play when we were in a time crunch. It was usually early in the game or when we were trying to extend a death march.
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I am not sure what the stats are with that play in terms of "success", but I'd judge "success" as getting the first down extending the drive even if we had to burn a TO to do it. If it's still a terrible rate of success, then ok. But, that play was never meant to solely draw the other team offsides. If they did, which was admittedly rare, then great. However, the goal was more for CPJ to see the D alignment for a, hopefully, more educated play call.
 
There are a lot of more technical reasons why we got pounded on Sat (Weak line play, defense allowing Pitt to move down the field at will, play calling esp in the red zone, officials, whatever), but Sat felt like a typical Tech game where we have had some recent success and came out entirely flat. Seems like it happens to a lot of schools who are not completely "there" with regard to consistency after a big win. In my experience at Tech, it seems to happen just as often if not more no matter the year or the coach. We play Clemson very close with a chance to potentially tie in the end. This was a school with recent NC appearances and wins and one who thoroughly kicked our asses last year. We came to play. To our credit, we came to play also vs. UNC. It was in the Benz so a big night for us. I hate that we didn't seem to get "up" for Pitt like we should have, but you could see it happening given the two weeks prior. Perhaps the players were "believing their own press" a little too much.

Anyway, pure speculation. Just seems like we've seen this so many times.
 
GTLiebs said:
I think the point is that you don't put blame for consistent fumbles and penalties on the playcaller. This is something that is still partially Patenaudes responsibility but it is not as solely his as playcalling.

Also the 100 schools ahead of us may legitimately have better offensive lines.
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Personally I think the play calling has been atrocious. But even if I'm ignorant of what I'm talking about (genuinely possible, I'm just a longtime fan, not a football savant), then the execution has been atrocious. Either way, these are offensive woes and the OC is the guy at the top of that foodchain. CGC is at the very top, but obvs firing him is a lot more expensive and disruptive to the entire program.

Why does it matter if 100 schools ahead of us legitimately have better offensive lines? I think it is clear that 100 schools ahead of us have legitimately better *teams*. The OC's job is to improve the team within the sphere of his responsibility, including our offensive lines. The fact that 100 schools ahead of us are better than we are is the reason you fire him, not the reason you keep him.
 
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18in32 said:
Personally I think the play calling has been atrocious. But even if I'm ignorant of what I'm talking about (genuinely possible, I'm just a longtime fan, not a football savant), then the execution has been atrocious.
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These are not mutually exclusive. The calls and the execution of said calls could both be suspect and probably have been at times
 
18in32 said:
Why does it matter if 100 schools ahead of us legitimately have better offensive lines? I think it is clear that 100 schools ahead of us have legitimately better teams. The OC's job is to improve the team within the sphere of his responsibility, including our offensive lines. The fact that 100 schools ahead of us are better than we are is the reason you fire him, not the reason to keep him.
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Then you are suggesting firing the rest of the offensive staff as well, right?
If one position on the offense is performing far worse than the others, then it doesn't make sense to fire the manager and retain the coach of that position group. "Buck stops there" is always a vague argument and doesn't necessarily address what's going wrong. It could very well be that Key's failings with the OL will also cost Patenaude his job, but it's foolish to blame only the OC for a bad offensive line.
 
Also I'm not trying to say all playcalls have been good. There have been bad ones, dudes not perfect.
Patenaude isn't at a Paul Johnson level of offensive coaching (and even he's called bad plays) and he wasn't ever expected to be.
 
GTLiebs said:
Then you are suggesting firing the rest of the offensive staff as well, right?
If one position on the offense is performing far worse than the others, then it doesn't make sense to fire the manager and retain the coach of that position group. "Buck stops there" is always a vague argument and doesn't necessarily address what's going wrong. It could very well be that Key's failings with the OL will also cost Patenaude his job, but it's foolish to blame only the OC for a bad offensive line.
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I feel like getting into the weeds on whether or not position coaches are doing their job is far beyond the level of knowledge that most fans have. We simply don't know enough about what's going on in locker rooms, meeting rooms, behind the scenes to know who's really effective and who's not. The OC should know that, and if there is a position coach that deserves disproportionate blame, then the OC should have fired him already. Failing to do so is proof the OC is himself not doing his job.
 
18in32 said:
I feel like getting into the weeds on whether or not position coaches are doing their job is far beyond the level of knowledge that most fans have. We simply don't know enough about what's going on in locker rooms, meeting rooms, behind the scenes to know who's really effective and who's not. The OC should know that, and if there is a position coach that deserves disproportionate blame, then the OC should have fired him already. Failing to do so is proof the OC is himself not doing his job.
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That leads to another thought I almost put in the previous post. Could Patenaude even fire Key if he wanted to? Key isn't only an offensive line coach and given the hullabaloo about retaining him, it may not be that easy. How much control over Key does Patenaude really have? Obviously this we can't know, but it isn't a crazy question.

If you're going to say we don't know enough inside stuff to know how much to blame a position coach, then we don't know enough to know how much to blame the manager. All we have then is "the buck stops here", which tells us even less.
 
GTLiebs said:
Then you are suggesting firing the rest of the offensive staff as well, right?
If one position on the offense is performing far worse than the others, then it doesn't make sense to fire the manager and retain the coach of that position group. "Buck stops there" is always a vague argument and doesn't necessarily address what's going wrong. It could very well be that Key's failings with the OL will also cost Patenaude his job, but it's foolish to blame only the OC for a bad offensive line.
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This is what I've been getting at the whole time. Nowhere have I said Patenaude is the best OC in the world and that we have dialed up the exact correct play every time. My point to argue though is that these yahoo's are spewing the exact extreme opposite of that, blaming every single bit of our offensive woes, especially inside the 10 and in the redzone, strictly on play calling. I think what I've shown is more than enough to debunk that theory. We've gone under center with 2 tight ends. We've powered it straight ahead with Mason and with the OL firing straight off, with and without tempo. We've run inside zone and outside zone. We've tried to stretch it out with jet sweeps, pop passes, swing passes to our playmakers. We've thrown the corner ball, the front pylon ball, the sideline ball, the back line ball. We've run read option. I really don't know what else we can try. Every one of these type plays has worked some and hasn't worked some. The only one common denominator in all of it, is that on a majority of plays that didn't work, there is a missed assignment by an OL. Like I said before, when your OL misses assignments inside the 10, it is magnified because you're playing in a phone booth.
 
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