Stop Blaming the Previous Coach

[Deleted Stingtalker 69]

Low blow.

I'd be glad to focus on what the new staff is doing rather than see constant excuses about what the old one didn't do.

I started this thread because I was tired of reading this crap and every other thread. I was hoping we could at least contain it here.

And yes, this is basically PJ's roster. But it didn't go from a 7 win roster to a 1 win roster overnight. We are a team of mostly three star players with the occasional four star that absolutely should be beating the teams we've played so far. We have one of the best secondaries I've seen in a long time at Georgia Tech, and pretty talented skill players on offense. PJ actually left some pretty good receivers, considering that he was barely using them. Funny thing is, CGC isn't using them either. The OL is a cluster, sure, but it's not like PJ ran off Parker Braun or injured the linemen that we've lost so far. He also had two more OL that Collins didn't want. That's fine, and probably best going forward, but again not PJs fault.

"The cupboard is bare" is just an extremely weak excuse at this point. It's not an explanation for our offense looking utterly incompetent against inferior competition. I don't want the 3option back, I just want an offense that works.

There's a reason analysts were predicting we'd go 3-9 or worse. No, our WRs are not pretty good. No, this isn't the roster that won 7 games last year as we returned very few starters and seniors. This was a rebuild year for CPJ and a massive overhaul for CGC. We shouldn't have lost to the Citadel, but it's questionable and purely hypothetical about USF and temple.

 

[ibeeballin]

I hear if you say his name three times he might show up

@ibeeballin @ibeeballin @ibeeballin

lol. The cupboard is not bare but it’s there is not enough of the right ingredients to make a cohesive meal. The season of GT football is 12 episode series of Chopped. It really feels like we trying to make a PB&J with no bread and CGC has to come out weekly selling the entree with some French words and techniques

 

[johncu]

There's a reason analysts were predicting we'd go 3-9 or worse. No, our WRs are not pretty good. No, this isn't the roster that won 7 games last year as we returned very few starters and seniors. This was a rebuild year for CPJ and a massive overhaul for CGC. We shouldn't have lost to the Citadel, but it's questionable and purely hypothetical about USF and temple.

Analysts predicted the same thing in 2008. They were very wrong.

And I disagree on the WRs. Carter is a future NFL receiver, Camp is a great blocker and strong enough to go get it in 1v1 coverage, and Brown has the type of speed we haven't had at WR in a long time. If we can find a QB and get everybody on the same page, we have the weapons on the outside to be successful, or at LEAST competent. Hell, we don't need to have an explosive offense at this point with our improved defense - we just need to move the chains to give our defense a break and break the occasional big play.

 

[texstinger]

We lost a 1st team all ACC OL lock in Braun and a likely All ACC DT in Adams. Those weren’t CPJs fault and would have drastically changed the look of this team right now.

Nor CGC’s fault.

 

[gtrower]

Nor CGC’s fault.

Didn’t say it was. Was responding to a poster claiming that CPJ recruiting is to blame for our losses this year.

Thacker inherited a talented defensive roster that didn’t perform very well last year. And I think we can all agree he’s doing more with them than CPJ has shown in his tenure.

Patenaude inherited a less talented offensive roster that performed reasonably well last year. And I think we can all agree he’s done as poorly as any OC in CFB could do.

They both deserve a few more years. But blaming CPJ for the roster he left behind is silly. CPJ is probably 3-1 right now and we’re licking our chops looking at the rest of the Coastal. If we’re a “player based scheme” and we have the players to win games given the right scheme, then it’s on the coaches to play the right scheme.

I can even give Patenaude some leeway. I’d rather lose a few more games this year to show recruits the offense we want to run for the future. But what we’ve seen is embarrassing. He’s not running what we want to look like, but he’s also not running anything that works.

 

[NEJacket1]

If by "similar", you mean that 15 out of 22 starters are gone, then sure...they're similar.
You're an idiot.

Yes similar. Yo no comprendo? Truth hurts...doesn't it. Collins can't get sh*t right on the field. It's not the players...it's the coaching that has created this nightmare. There should never be a reason to win 1 or 2 games a year. I don't give a sh*t what offense you run. We didn't score a FN point against Temple. All of a sudden in the eyes of some, including Collins, Temple is on par with Ohio State.

 

[Ish]

We are a team of mostly three star players with the occasional four star that absolutely should be beating the teams we've played so far. We have one of the best secondaries I've seen in a long time at Georgia Tech, and pretty talented skill players on offense.

This is the kernel of your argument, and it's just not an accurate depiction of our talent level. Any discussion of expectations is pointless if you truly believe the above.

It does not matter how many 4-star defensive backs we have. Full stop. You brushed over the OL issues like it's nothing, but we are playing multiple walk-ons at this point thanks to injuries, and it appears we just lost Kenny Cooper too. It would be one thing if PJ were still here and were forced to start walk-ons because they'd be used to the offense, but on top of being inexperienced they are learning a new blocking scheme.

The QBs have individual tools that are impressive but not refined. One has a good arm, one has great legs, and the other's best tool is being described as a "gamer".

I always read your stuff and I respect your opinion, but IMO you are covering your eyes and not wanting to see what everyone else sees.

 

[Diseqc]

This is the kernel of your argument, and it's just not an accurate depiction of our talent level. Any discussion of expectations is pointless if you truly believe the above.

It does not matter how many 4-star defensive backs we have. Full stop. You brushed over the OL issues like it's nothing, but we are playing multiple walk-ons at this point thanks to injuries, and it appears we just lost Kenny Cooper too. It would be one thing if PJ were still here and were forced to start walk-ons because they'd be used to the offense, but on top of being inexperienced they are learning a new blocking scheme.

The QBs have individual tools that are impressive but not refined. One has a good arm, one has great legs, and the other's best tool is being described as a "gamer".

I always read your stuff and I respect your opinion, but IMO you are covering your eyes and not wanting to see what everyone else sees.

It doesn’t matter what you post, johncu’s argument boils down to “wE WoN 6 gAmEs LaSt YeAr”

It’s so dumb. Looking at the previous season win total and then saying this was a 6 win team is the height of stupidity. If that was really the case then Johnson took an 11 win team and gave us 3 wins. That’s a -8 win differential. Collins can at worst perform a -5 win differential. QED Collins is the better coach.

 

[Deleted Stingtalker 69]

Analysts predicted the same thing in 2008. They were very wrong.

And I disagree on the WRs. Carter is a future NFL receiver, Camp is a great blocker and strong enough to go get it in 1v1 coverage, and Brown has the type of speed we haven't had at WR in a long time. If we can find a QB and get everybody on the same page, we have the weapons on the outside to be successful, or at LEAST competent. Hell, we don't need to have an explosive offense at this point with our improved defense - we just need to move the chains to give our defense a break and break the occasional big play.

Of course in the thread about this topic, you were talking about CPJ unprompted which you've assured me you never do so let's just go straight past the BS where you babble incessantly. No one outside of some members of our fanbase shares your assessment about our personnel. We can't keep putting our heads in the sand.

 

[JoeCakeEater]

In our defense, I think they were wrong about our DBs. I like how they have played.

 

[Tampa Jacket]

Analysts predicted the same thing in 2008. They were very wrong.

And I disagree on the WRs. Carter is a future NFL receiver, Camp is a great blocker and strong enough to go get it in 1v1 coverage, and Brown has the type of speed we haven't had at WR in a long time. If we can find a QB and get everybody on the same page, we have the weapons on the outside to be successful, or at LEAST competent. Hell, we don't need to have an explosive offense at this point with our improved defense - we just need to move the chains to give our defense a break and break the occasional big play.

Jerry Rice and Steve Young couldn’t move the chains behind our OL.

 

[Vespidie]

We are blaming CPJ for the roster composition, not the coaching so far.

The defense has shown more life this season in a new scheme than we’ve seen since probably 2008. That with a seriously lacking front 4 and youth all over the place.

The offense is atrocious (as it was for most of 2008 with way more talent). If anyone recalls 2008...we would go for long stretches without moving the ball for öööö...then Dwyer or BeyBey (with their NFL talent) would bust like a 70 yard play. I’m not sure Patenaude has the answers, but this transition on O was always going to be a major uphill climb.

People need to get over themselves and support the program. Enjoy the ride, and appreciate progress towards the end destination...don’t get so fixated on the W-L in 2019. The program needs your support now more than ever.

I'll be there next weekend.

 

[faujacket]

CPJ was a legend. He was so good for GT and has a legendary legacy that he left. Wouldn’t give up a thing for those three wins in Athens 3 ACc title games and two orange bowls.

We became spoiled under CPJ.

 

[18in32]

we are playing multiple walk-ons at this point thanks to injuries

Can you tell me which walk on OL played? I looked at the participation report but it wasn't obvious to me.

 

[johncu]

It doesn’t matter what you post, johncu’s argument boils down to “wE WoN 6 gAmEs LaSt YeAr”

It’s so dumb. Looking at the previous season win total and then saying this was a 6 win team is the height of stupidity. If that was really the case then Johnson took an 11 win team and gave us 3 wins. That’s a -8 win differential. Collins can at worst perform a -5 win differential. QED Collins is the better coach.

You're completely misinterpreting my point. I don't think this is a 6 win team. Not only are we going through a major scheme transition, we had a horrific offseason when our best offensive lineman transferred and our best defensive lineman died. Then to top it off the remaining offensive linemen with experience are basically all injured.

I'm just saying the notion that CPJ "drove the program into the ground" is absurd. He left a 7 win program that was pretty stable, albeit stagnant and not really improving anymore. We were at least competitive with every single team on our schedule every year except Clemson and Georgia who are two of the top three programs in the country. He also left a relatively talented set of skill-position players for us to work with. Hence, the cupboard is not bare.

ALSO, despite the aforementioned issues, we should not be losing to the Citadel nor should we be getting shut out by Temple. Neither team overwhelmed us with talent. They both outcoached us, especially with regards to their defense and our offense. That is concerning and even mentioning talent as an excuse is really weak IMO.

Is any of that so controversial?

 

[Walton]

Can you tell me which walk on OL played? I looked at the participation report but it wasn't obvious to me.

Lay is a walkon and played Center once Cooper left. Also, Matthew Morgan. Not sure what position he played but I can't find that he has a scholarship so I assume he is a walk-on.

 

[Walton]

You're completely misinterpreting my point. I don't think this is a 6 win team. Not only are we going through a major scheme transition, we had a horrific offseason when our best offensive lineman transferred and our best defensive lineman died. Then to top it off the remaining offensive linemen with experience are basically all injured.

I'm just saying the notion that CPJ "drove the program into the ground" is absurd. He left a 7 win program that was pretty stable, albeit stagnant and not really improving anymore. We were at least competitive with every single team on our schedule every year except Clemson and Georgia who are two of the top three programs in the country. He also left a relatively talented set of skill-position players for us to work with. Hence, the cupboard is not bare.

ALSO, despite the aforementioned issues, we should not be losing to the Citadel nor should we be getting shut out by Temple. Neither team overwhelmed us with talent. They both outcoached us, especially with regards to their defense and our offense. That is concerning and even mentioning talent as an excuse is really weak IMO.

Is any of that so controversial?

It isn't really Johnson's fault but yes the offensive talent is especially poor. It might be the worst in the ACC given the fact that everyone else has at least 1 quality QB that was recruited for their system. I did an in depth dive and except for BC, we have the least amount of talent on the offensive side of the ball (only talking about Johnson recruits so I didn't include Brown or Griffin). Yes, we should have beaten Citadel but it is basically even with Temple's D, all things considered.

 

[savbandjacket]

You're completely misinterpreting my point. I don't think this is a 6 win team. Not only are we going through a major scheme transition, we had a horrific offseason when our best offensive lineman transferred and our best defensive lineman died. Then to top it off the remaining offensive linemen with experience are basically all injured.

I'm just saying the notion that CPJ "drove the program into the ground" is absurd. He left a 7 win program that was pretty stable, albeit stagnant and not really improving anymore. We were at least competitive with every single team on our schedule every year except Clemson and Georgia who are two of the top three programs in the country. He also left a relatively talented set of skill-position players for us to work with. Hence, the cupboard is not bare.

ALSO, despite the aforementioned issues, we should not be losing to the Citadel nor should we be getting shut out by Temple. Neither team overwhelmed us with talent. They both outcoached us, especially with regards to their defense and our offense. That is concerning and even mentioning talent as an excuse is really weak IMO.

Is any of that so controversial?

He left a team that is significantly unbalanced on offense that was highly dependent each year upon a couple of playmakers. When those playmakers were not present (injury, not on the team or otherwise) we won 3 games.

Worse for the new regime - anyone on the roster who was a playmaker did it in a system (the 3O) that is gone and they are either in new positions (former A backs) or the play of other positions (O line) is significantly diminishing their opportunities to make plays.

 

[GTLiebs]

Didn’t say it was. Was responding to a poster claiming that CPJ recruiting is to blame for our losses this year.

Thacker inherited a talented defensive roster that didn’t perform very well last year. And I think we can all agree he’s doing more with them than CPJ has shown in his tenure.

Patenaude inherited a less talented offensive roster that performed reasonably well last year. And I think we can all agree he’s done as poorly as any OC in CFB could do.

They both deserve a few more years. But blaming CPJ for the roster he left behind is silly. CPJ is probably 3-1 right now and we’re licking our chops looking at the rest of the Coastal. If we’re a “player based scheme” and we have the players to win games given the right scheme, then it’s on the coaches to play the right scheme.

I can even give Patenaude some leeway. I’d rather lose a few more games this year to show recruits the offense we want to run for the future. But what we’ve seen is embarrassing. He’s not running what we want to look like, but he’s also not running anything that works.

Here's the thing though: as you are suggesting if we were running CPJs scheme we are probably 3-1. However, aside from the argument that we want to run something closer to the future version for recruits, the other part is that it is likely that the current offensive staff might not really know how to successfully implement a scheme like CPJs.

It's possible that some of the failure is that we actually are trying to use the option training our players have but don't really know how to coach it or run it properly. That offense was always far more complicated than it appeared from the outside; Johnson would sometimes turn a terrible game into success just by tweaking the blocking schemes, but would anyone on the current stuff know the moves for that?

We may be a player based scheme, but the staffs' knowledge is finite and odds are none of them are on Johnson's (near legendary) level.

 

[RamblinWreck92]

Analysts predicted the same thing in 2008. They were very wrong.

And I disagree on the WRs. Carter is a future NFL receiver, Camp is a great blocker and strong enough to go get it in 1v1 coverage, and Brown has the type of speed we haven't had at WR in a long time. If we can find a QB and get everybody on the same page, we have the weapons on the outside to be successful, or at LEAST competent. Hell, we don't need to have an explosive offense at this point with our improved defense - we just need to move the chains to give our defense a break and break the occasional big play.

I agree that our WR corps is probably our offensive strength. But as you yourself said, "If we can find a QB" and our OL has been decimated with injury and Braun departure.

We've got an option guy at QB in TO and a RS FR in JG trying to work miracles behind a patchwork OL. This site bitched and complained about the OL and Sewak (self included) for years.

So why the expectations that an inexperienced OL going to a completely-new blocking scheme is going to work without a hitch and a completely inexperienced QB learning his 2nd new offense in 2 years is going to master the playbook and kick ass?