Expansion Rumors…

GTsapper said:
I'm sorry, I have to fundamentally disagree here. Let's just talk Clemson for a moment. Now, I can't stand Clemson as much as the next guy, but they won 2 titles and went 2 out of 3 against Nick Saban and Alabama to do it. They didn't do it with a monsterous alumni base, and they definitely didn't do it with billionaires. You can say what you want about Dabo now, but he did it the old fashioned way. It can still be done that way.
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Clemson is the complete opposite of the original point that was attempted to be made that an academic school with a billionaire (ex. Penn, Harvard, Stanford, Duke, etc) could “easily replace” the current landscape of P4 CFB. See the quote below in response to the list of schools with billionaire alums posted in this thread above.

Reality is, the schools in that list get a lot of $$$ donated to the academic / research side (sound familiar?), while the tOSU, LSU, Texas, Alabama, etc get a boat load towards athletics (mainly football). Clemson falls in line with the tOSU, LSU, etc group. Clemson is a large state school with great facilities, large football stadium (81,500), big alumni and sidewalk fanbase.

Compare that to the following stadium sizes:

Duke - 40,000
Stanford - 50,400
NW - Old 45,000, new stadium 35,000
Harvard - 30,300
Penn - 52,500

OptionJacket said:
It’s not what the top 25 currently look like. That’s not the game. The game is what it could look like if schools simply choose to do it. If these schools in your list decided to become powerhouses in football they could easily replace the current group at the top because with the demise of the NCAA, that was bought and paid for by the current power schools, this new system is now open to any school - which I love. The days of Bama or UGA buying players under the table while schools like SMU and GT are put on probation are OVER. If the IVY league changed their internal league rules and bought every 5 star it wouldn’t take long for ESPN or FOX or NBC to come running.
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USCJacket said:
Clemson is the complete opposite of the original point that was attempted to be made that an academic school with a billionaire (ex. Penn, Harvard, Stanford, Duke, etc) could “easily replace” the current landscape of P4 CFB. See the quote below in response to the list of schools with billionaire alums posted in this thread above.

Reality is, the schools in that list get a lot of $$$ donated to the academic / research side (sound familiar?), while the tOSU, LSU, Texas, Alabama, etc get a boat load towards athletics (mainly football). Clemson falls in line with the tOSU, LSU, etc group. Clemson is a large state school with great facilities, large football stadium (81,500), big alumni and sidewalk fanbase.

Compare that to the following stadium sizes:

Duke - 40,000
Stanford - 50,400
NW - Old 45,000, new stadium 35,000
Harvard - 30,300
Penn - 52,500
Click to expand...
Okay, fair. I didn't read the original post.
 
USCJacket said:
Clemson is the complete opposite of the original point that was attempted to be made that an academic school with a billionaire (ex. Penn, Harvard, Stanford, Duke, etc) could “easily replace” the current landscape of P4 CFB. See the quote below in response to the list of schools with billionaire alums posted in this thread above.

Reality is, the schools in that list get a lot of $$$ donated to the academic / research side (sound familiar?), while the tOSU, LSU, Texas, Alabama, etc get a boat load towards athletics (mainly football). Clemson falls in line with the tOSU, LSU, etc group. Clemson is a large state school with great facilities, large football stadium (81,500), big alumni and sidewalk fanbase.

Compare that to the following stadium sizes:

Duke - 40,000
Stanford - 50,400
NW - Old 45,000, new stadium 35,000
Harvard - 30,300
Penn - 52,500
Click to expand...
You are missing what I am saying. I’m not talking about right now. If Harvard decided to become a D1 power they wouldn’t sit there with a 30,000 person stadium. They would begin by hiring a guy like Venables or Kirby. They could easily double their current contract. Then those coaches would be given an unlimited payroll to buy 4 and 5 stars. While they were doing this, they would begin construction on a new stadium, while contracting with Gillette Stadium and giving away cheap tickets to market the Boston area. Then, of course, they would have to either have the Ivy League change their rules or simply .join another conference.

Believing that no team can enter the discussion is wrong. I agree that the past 40 years have been this way because the NCAA enforcement branch was owned by the current powers. But those days are over. There are no rules right now and now everyone is able to benefit like Bama and UGA has the past 40 years.

I was just at SMU for 4 days as I have kin in University Park. Their stadium is under major construction. Why? Because they see what is coming. The money is lined up and by 2028 they will be a consistently top 2 team in the ACC or whatever is left. This is what any9ne could do with a will to do it. Schools like GT simply don’t have the will. GT has plenty of money to compete with UGA. GT simply refuses to reallocate their resources to do it and would rather use the fanbase as the scapegoat. And the fanbase accepts that narrative that we are the problem and not the school. GT has a huge endowment and yet all we hear are excuses as to why that money can’t be touched. I’m sure several posters will soon be here to give me all the lame reasons why. Of course, the real reason is that those who run GT simply don’t have a will to make the changes necessary to access a small portion so we aren’t a laughingstock. Meanwhile, UGA beat us in football, basketball, and baseball yet again.
 
OptionJacket said:
You are missing what I am saying. I’m not talking about right now. If Harvard decided to become a D1 power they wouldn’t sit there with a 30,000 person stadium. They would begin by hiring a guy like Venables or Kirby. They could easily double their current contract. Then those coaches would be given an unlimited payroll to buy 4 and 5 stars. While they were doing this, they would begin construction on a new stadium, while contracting with Gillette Stadium and giving away cheap tickets to market the Boston area. Then, of course, they would have to either have the Ivy League change their rules or simply .join another conference.

Believing that no team can enter the discussion is wrong. I agree that the past 40 years have been this way because the NCAA enforcement branch was owned by the current powers. But those days are over. There are no rules right now and now everyone is able to benefit like Bama and UGA has the past 40 years.

I was just at SMU for 4 days as I have kin in University Park. Their stadium is under major construction. Why? Because they see what is coming. The money is lined up and by 2028 they will be a consistently top 2 team in the ACC or whatever is left. This is what any9ne could do with a will to do it. Schools like GT simply don’t have the will. GT has plenty of money to compete with UGA. GT simply refuses to reallocate their resources to do it and would rather use the fanbase as the scapegoat. And the fanbase accepts that narrative that we are the problem and not the school. GT has a huge endowment and yet all we hear are excuses as to why that money can’t be touched. I’m sure several posters will soon be here to give me all the lame reasons why. Of course, the real reason is that those who run GT simply don’t have a will to make the changes necessary to access a small portion so we aren’t a laughingstock. Meanwhile, UGA beat us in football, basketball, and baseball yet again.
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I'm just mad about how correct this post is. Like... You didn't have to rub my nose in it, man....

But seriously, it's hard to argue against this.
 
OptionJacket said:
You are missing what I am saying. I’m not talking about right now. If Harvard decided to become a D1 power they wouldn’t sit there with a 30,000 person stadium. They would begin by hiring a guy like Venables or Kirby. They could easily double their current contract. Then those coaches would be given an unlimited payroll to buy 4 and 5 stars. While they were doing this, they would begin construction on a new stadium, while contracting with Gillette Stadium and giving away cheap tickets to market the Boston area. Then, of course, they would have to either have the Ivy League change their rules or simply .join another conference.

Believing that no team can enter the discussion is wrong. I agree that the past 40 years have been this way because the NCAA enforcement branch was owned by the current powers. But those days are over. There are no rules right now and now everyone is able to benefit like Bama and UGA has the past 40 years.

I was just at SMU for 4 days as I have kin in University Park. Their stadium is under major construction. Why? Because they see what is coming. The money is lined up and by 2028 they will be a consistently top 2 team in the ACC or whatever is left. This is what any9ne could do with a will to do it. Schools like GT simply don’t have the will. GT has plenty of money to compete with UGA. GT simply refuses to reallocate their resources to do it and would rather use the fanbase as the scapegoat. And the fanbase accepts that narrative that we are the problem and not the school. GT has a huge endowment and yet all we hear are excuses as to why that money can’t be touched. I’m sure several posters will soon be here to give me all the lame reasons why. Of course, the real reason is that those who run GT simply don’t have a will to make the changes necessary to access a small portion so we aren’t a laughingstock. Meanwhile, UGA beat us in football, basketball, and baseball yet again.
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Agreed, except I’m guessing there are rules about money not specifically in the athletic dept.
 
OptionJacket said:
You are missing what I am saying. I’m not talking about right now. If Harvard decided to become a D1 power they wouldn’t sit there with a 30,000 person stadium. They would begin by hiring a guy like Venables or Kirby. They could easily double their current contract. Then those coaches would be given an unlimited payroll to buy 4 and 5 stars. While they were doing this, they would begin construction on a new stadium, while contracting with Gillette Stadium and giving away cheap tickets to market the Boston area. Then, of course, they would have to either have the Ivy League change their rules or simply .join another conference.

Believing that no team can enter the discussion is wrong. I agree that the past 40 years have been this way because the NCAA enforcement branch was owned by the current powers. But those days are over. There are no rules right now and now everyone is able to benefit like Bama and UGA has the past 40 years.

I was just at SMU for 4 days as I have kin in University Park. Their stadium is under major construction. Why? Because they see what is coming. The money is lined up and by 2028 they will be a consistently top 2 team in the ACC or whatever is left. This is what any9ne could do with a will to do it. Schools like GT simply don’t have the will. GT has plenty of money to compete with UGA. GT simply refuses to reallocate their resources to do it and would rather use the fanbase as the scapegoat. And the fanbase accepts that narrative that we are the problem and not the school. GT has a huge endowment and yet all we hear are excuses as to why that money can’t be touched. I’m sure several posters will soon be here to give me all the lame reasons why. Of course, the real reason is that those who run GT simply don’t have a will to make the changes necessary to access a small portion so we aren’t a laughingstock. Meanwhile, UGA beat us in football, basketball, and baseball yet again.
Click to expand...
I understand what you’re saying. It’s a great in theory, but would never happen even if Harvard, Penn, etc wanted to.

Reality is, Harvard the school can care less about being anything more than an Ivy League elite academic school. People on here get upset when lowering academic standards for SA’s is talked about. Can you imagine the backlash Harvard, etc would receive? Billionaire alumni are great and all, but do you know for sure those alumni care about football? I’m going to hedge my bets on no. Hell, they probably donate more to the rowing and hockey teams as it is now.

I work with people who live in PA, MA, NY, and they truly don’t care about CFB. They find it odd when I explain to them the passion for CFB over any pro sports in the South. They don’t get it, and think it’s comical.

There is simply no path for someone like Harvard, Penn at the Ivy League level, to even some P4 schools (Duke, BC, UVA, NW, Vandy, Cal, etc) come to mind that truly care about being an elite football school. It doesn’t matter how much $$$ those schools have, no elite coach is going to leave tOSU, Michigan, Texas, FSU, LSU, USC, UF, Bama, etc to go to a school with no proven anything. The top level P4 programs will ALWAYS have enough $$$ to land the best talent over any school who all of a sudden tries to buy themselves into P4 relevance.

The example about SMU is whole other level vs others mentioned. I 100% agree with you about SMU. That school WANTS to be at the next level. Since joining the ACC with no tier 1 revenue, still raised $152 million post joining the ACC to date I believe I heard yesterday on XM Radio. SMU has the alumni, resources and a state full of talent to quickly use the ACC to possibly move into another league when the ACC eventually folds. SMU is a sleeping giant as far as program growth. But they have a cap to their growth like most programs outside of say the Top 10. Can they be a Top 15-20 program getting a shot at a 12 or 16 team CFP bid? Without question. That said, even they would never be able to hire Ryan Day, Kurby, Dabo, Sark, etc. No elite HC is leaving programs with no resources limitations to go to a program they would still have to build. Look at the salaries of the Top HC’s. What reason would they have to want to start over?

As far as what you say about GT. I think we all 99% of the board agrees with your thoughts on $$$ not allocated. But like you said, you’re going to hear from the 1% about why the school will never reallocate $$$ generated and allocated to the academic side to help grow the 2 major sports brands. They are also the same group who continue to believe CFB / CBB is about amateur athletics, and a degree is worth more than $$$.
 
USCJacket said:
I understand what you’re saying. It’s a great in theory, but would never happen even if Harvard, Penn, etc wanted to.

Reality is, Harvard the school can care less about being anything more than an Ivy League elite academic school. People on here get upset when lowering academic standards for SA’s is talked about. Can you imagine the backlash Harvard, etc would receive? Billionaire alumni are great and all, but do you know for sure those alumni care about football? I’m going to hedge my bets on no. Hell, they probably donate more to the rowing and hockey teams as it is now.

I work with people who live in PA, MA, NY, and they truly don’t care about CFB. They find it odd when I explain to them the passion for CFB over any pro sports in the South. They don’t get it, and think it’s comical.

There is simply no path for someone like Harvard, Penn at the Ivy League level, to even some P4 schools (Duke, BC, UVA, NW, Vandy, Cal, etc) come to mind that truly care about being an elite football school. It doesn’t matter how much $$$ those schools have, no elite coach is going to leave tOSU, Michigan, Texas, FSU, LSU, USC, UF, Bama, etc to go to a school with no proven anything. The top level P4 programs will ALWAYS have enough $$$ to land the best talent over any school who all of a sudden tries to buy themselves into P4 relevance.

The example about SMU is whole other level vs others mentioned. I 100% agree with you about SMU. That school WANTS to be at the next level. Since joining the ACC with no tier 1 revenue, still raised $152 million post joining the ACC to date I believe I heard yesterday on XM Radio. SMU has the alumni, resources and a state full of talent to quickly use the ACC to possibly move into another league when the ACC eventually folds. SMU is a sleeping giant as far as program growth. But they have a cap to their growth like most programs outside of say the Top 10. Can they be a Top 15-20 program getting a shot at a 12 or 16 team CFP bid? Without question. That said, even they would never be able to hire Ryan Day, Kurby, Dabo, Sark, etc. No elite HC is leaving programs with no resources limitations to go to a program they would still have to build. Look at the salaries of the Top HC’s. What reason would they have to want to start over?

As far as what you say about GT. I think we all 99% of the board agrees with your thoughts on $$$ not allocated. But like you said, you’re going to hear from the 1% about why the school will never reallocate $$$ generated and allocated to the academic side to help grow the 2 major sports brands. They are also the same group who continue to believe CFB / CBB is about amateur athletics, and a degree is worth more than $$$.
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All nice, but Tech fans are part of the problem. I know and have met many Tech grads that are fans but too cheap to spend $200 for season tickets. And others that have so many choices in life that committing to anything related to Tech sports never happens until we are winning big. And I could go on…
 
midatlantech said:
All nice, but Tech fans are part of the problem. I know and have met many Tech grads that are fans but too cheap to spend $200 for season tickets. And others that have so many choices in life that committing to anything related to Tech sports never happens until we are winning big. And I could go on…
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midatlantech said:
All nice, but Tech fans are part of the problem. I know and have met many Tech grads that are fans but too cheap to spend $200 for season tickets. And others that have so many choices in life that committing to anything related to Tech sports never happens until we are winning big. And I could go on…
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Exactly. Which also applies to the list provided above in the thread as it relates to billionaire alums (reposted below). There are three outliers on that list, and you know who I’m referring to.

Most schools aren’t Oregon or Oklahoma State, schools who have a mega donor who is willing to spend to build a program. It also takes fan support. To your point, that is significantly lacking at GT, Stanford, Duke, NW, Vandy, UVA, BC, Miami, etc.

1. University of Pennsylvania (25 billionaire undergrad alums)
2. Harvard (22)
3. Yale (20)
4. USC (16)
5. Princeton (14)
6. Cornell (14)
7. Stanford (14)
8. Cal Berkeley (12)
9. Texas (10)
10. Dartmouth (10)
11. Michigan (10)
12. NYU (9)
13. Duke (9)
14. Columbia (9)
15. Brown (8)
16. MIT (7)
 
USCJacket said:
I understand what you’re saying. It’s a great in theory, but would never happen even if Harvard, Penn, etc wanted to.

Reality is, Harvard the school can care less about being anything more than an Ivy League elite academic school. People on here get upset when lowering academic standards for SA’s is talked about. Can you imagine the backlash Harvard, etc would receive? Billionaire alumni are great and all, but do you know for sure those alumni care about football? I’m going to hedge my bets on no. Hell, they probably donate more to the rowing and hockey teams as it is now.

I work with people who live in PA, MA, NY, and they truly don’t care about CFB. They find it odd when I explain to them the passion for CFB over any pro sports in the South. They don’t get it, and think it’s comical.

There is simply no path for someone like Harvard, Penn at the Ivy League level, to even some P4 schools (Duke, BC, UVA, NW, Vandy, Cal, etc) come to mind that truly care about being an elite football school. It doesn’t matter how much $$$ those schools have, no elite coach is going to leave tOSU, Michigan, Texas, FSU, LSU, USC, UF, Bama, etc to go to a school with no proven anything. The top level P4 programs will ALWAYS have enough $$$ to land the best talent over any school who all of a sudden tries to buy themselves into P4 relevance.

The example about SMU is whole other level vs others mentioned. I 100% agree with you about SMU. That school WANTS to be at the next level. Since joining the ACC with no tier 1 revenue, still raised $152 million post joining the ACC to date I believe I heard yesterday on XM Radio. SMU has the alumni, resources and a state full of talent to quickly use the ACC to possibly move into another league when the ACC eventually folds. SMU is a sleeping giant as far as program growth. But they have a cap to their growth like most programs outside of say the Top 10. Can they be a Top 15-20 program getting a shot at a 12 or 16 team CFP bid? Without question. That said, even they would never be able to hire Ryan Day, Kurby, Dabo, Sark, etc. No elite HC is leaving programs with no resources limitations to go to a program they would still have to build. Look at the salaries of the Top HC’s. What reason would they have to want to start over?

As far as what you say about GT. I think we all 99% of the board agrees with your thoughts on $$$ not allocated. But like you said, you’re going to hear from the 1% about why the school will never reallocate $$$ generated and allocated to the academic side to help grow the 2 major sports brands. They are also the same group who continue to believe CFB / CBB is about amateur athletics, and a degree is worth more than $$$.
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I was just using Harvard as an example. I agree that they have zero will to do it. But the point is they COULD under today’s system. There will be other SMU types who emerge as schools wake up and realize they’ve been screwed for 40 years by the NCAA. With the NCAA neutered, now is the time to buy players and improve.
 
BuzzLaw said:
Agreed, except I’m guessing there are rules about money not specifically in the athletic dept.
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That’s my point Buzz. Schools who are serious about winning CHANGE rules all the time to benefit their program. UGA was able to get the freaking state legislature to change the “rules” so UGA could become an engineering school. If GT had a will to truly become competitive they would make the necessary changes in this new era of an open market. Instead, they are happy with Key busting his backside to get us to a .500 program so the alumni can go back to sleep. And how many years will Key put up with this when he looks in all directions and sees the coaches at UGA, Bama, FSU, Auburn, Clemson getting all the ingredients handed to them. Any coach as competitive as Key will eventually grow tired of half-assery and some school will eventually come calling for him. We’ve been very lucky with old coaches who were past their prime with Gailey and Johnson so outside of O’Leary we haven’t had to worry about a coach being poached. Key is well connected, well regarded, and is young. If GT doesn’t give him what he needs to attract big time talent I give him less than 5 years until his frustration outgrows his love for GT.
 
GT3000 said:
What happened to the T-Rex
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f8ce47d485ca242df3906a7deb050ae1-2217041486.jpg
 
USCJacket said:
Exactly. Which also applies to the list provided above in the thread as it relates to billionaire alums (reposted below). There are three outliers on that list, and you know who I’m referring to.

Most schools aren’t Oregon or Oklahoma State, schools who have a mega donor who is willing to spend to build a program. It also takes fan support. To your point, that is significantly lacking at GT, Stanford, Duke, NW, Vandy, UVA, BC, Miami, etc.

1. University of Pennsylvania (25 billionaire undergrad alums)
2. Harvard (22)
3. Yale (20)
4. USC (16)
5. Princeton (14)
6. Cornell (14)
7. Stanford (14)
8. Cal Berkeley (12)
9. Texas (10)
10. Dartmouth (10)
11. Michigan (10)
12. NYU (9)
13. Duke (9)
14. Columbia (9)
15. Brown (8)
16. MIT (7)
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The Ivies just aren't that interested in college football. Most football fans in that part of the country are primarily into the NFL.
 
GSOJacket said:
The Ivies just aren't that interested in college football. Most football fans in that part of the country are primarily into the NFL.
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Not just the Ivy schools. Outside of Penn State and even Rutgers under Schiano to an extent, the NE CFB teams just don’t have full stadiums. Like you said, the NE is all about pro sports.
 
USCJacket said:
Not just the Ivy schools. Outside of Penn State and even Rutgers under Schiano to an extent, the NE CFB teams just don’t have full stadiums. Like you said, the NE is all about pro sports.
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And I don't blame them. The NFL teams have history up there and fans are in close proximity to each other.

The Falcons used to just be close to New Orleans, at least southern. Nobody gives a damn about Carolina/Atlanta.
 
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